Why No Gore Tex Equestrian Jackets?! Very Particular Waterproof Jacket Hunt

[Flame_]

So, I have one. Some navy and red "showjumping" line Musto did about 25 years ago when they tried introducing gore tex to the equestrian market. It's not had heavy use and is still going strong but it's too long, big and flappy on me for riding in beyond walk hacking. I can't bleeding find an upgrade and I've been looking for months. Running, cycling and general outdoor stuff seems no good - I have a short upper body, small waist, big bum and fairly wide horse - I need a jacket that's fitted down to a high waist that is either really, properly short (think fashion denim jacket length) or, preferably, a bit longer, but not so long I could sit on it, with a two-way zip and riding vents. Even a very short style would probably need, at least, the two-way zip. I cannot be doing with hoods, so any hoods must be detachable. Also no zips that extend up sticky-up collars that end up poking me in the chin. If by some miracle, anyone has the jacket like mine in a small size mothballed away in a cupboard somewhere, that might work.

Does anyone have, or know of, this unicorn? Happy to buy new or used.

 

[teapot]

Have a look at Helly Hansen's sailing range - they're the same company as Musto these days and far better quality imho. This for example is pretty short and exteremly waterproof (I have the hooded fleece lined version) https://www.hellyhansen.com/en_gb/w-crew-jacket-20-34450?color=290548

Goretex was probably too expensive to keep using, coats that have it come with a large price tag these days

 

[Flame_]

Thanks but I've had a look through a fair bit of their stuff and it just wouldn't work on me. I need a two way zip because jacket waists are almost always too low on me and usually just about go round my bum, which is tolerable unless I get on a horse and the shoulders get pushed up in the air and the whole thing is impossibly uncomfortable. I'll have another look but it seems they're averse to two-way zips.

 

[teapot]

Thanks but I've had a look through a fair bit of their stuff and it just wouldn't work on me. I need a two way zip because jacket waists are almost always too low on me and usually just about go round my bum, which is tolerable unless I get on a horse and the shoulders get pushed up in the air and the whole thing is impossibly uncomfortable. I'll have another look but it seems they're averse to two-way zips.

Honestly I doubt you'll find a two way zip unless you specifically buy an equestrian brand, which ime are always over priced and lacking in any quality/waterproofing.

The Musto training jacket was pretty short, two way zip, and had a jacket like fit (think flexible/stretchy material) but wasn't goretex. I've got the navy version of this to ride in, might be worth a google https://www.hopevalleysaddlery.co.u.../musto-br2-womens-training-jacket--red__17718

 

[Kunoichi73]

I've never understood why equestrian clothing hasn't embraced more modern fabrics like gore-tex.

Have you looked at some of the mountaineering/climbing jackets? They often have a shorter cut to allow people to wear harnesses with them.

 

[Kunoichi73]

What about something like this:

Gore W C5 GORE-TEX TRAIL HOODED JACKET, Terra Grey - Free Shipping starts at 60£ - www.exxpozed.co.uk

The C5 Women Gore-Tex® Trail Hooded Jacket by GORE® offers full weather protection while remaining lightweight and small packable. Out on the trail in changeable conditions you need a compact, packable jacket that provides full waterproof protection and high bre...

www.exxpozed.co.uk

 

[Timefortea]

I have the same problem… I find some walking jackets have elastic drawstrings around the bottom which you can tighten and use to keep the bottom hem up on your hips if that makes sense.

 

[Flame_]

What about something like this:

Gore W C5 GORE-TEX TRAIL HOODED JACKET, Terra Grey - Free Shipping starts at 60£ - www.exxpozed.co.uk

The C5 Women Gore-Tex® Trail Hooded Jacket by GORE® offers full weather protection while remaining lightweight and small packable. Out on the trail in changeable conditions you need a compact, packable jacket that provides full waterproof protection and high bre...

www.exxpozed.co.uk

Warmer, thanks! Would need to be no hood or detachable hood though.

 

[Skib]

I ride in a Musto and in summer a Berghaus. Both goretex. Both made for sailing or walking

 

[webble]

Arc teryx do a couple but the prices are scary, they do come in orange though

Salal Jacket Women's

Complete GORE-TEX weather protection for mountain activities and off-mountain adventures.

arcteryx.com

Beta Coat Women's

Long, versatile GORE-TEX mountain shell delivering outstanding weather protection.

arcteryx.com

Rush Jacket Women's

Light, durable GORE-TEX shell delivering essential backcountry weather protection.

arcteryx.com

 

[Flame_]

Arc teryx do a couple but the prices are scary, they do come in orange though

Salal Jacket Women's

Complete GORE-TEX weather protection for mountain activities and off-mountain adventures.

arcteryx.com

Beta Coat Women's

Long, versatile GORE-TEX mountain shell delivering outstanding weather protection.

arcteryx.com

Rush Jacket Women's

Light, durable GORE-TEX shell delivering essential backcountry weather protection.

arcteryx.com

Thanks. Honestly, for the right one, money no object! Those are definitely too long though, sadly.

 

[webble]

Thanks. Honestly, for the right one, money no object! Those are definitely too long though, sadly.

They are two way zip so could flare out at the hips maybe?

 

[Patterdale]

Musto sailing smocks. Very short, readily available second hand, totally waterproof!

 

[Patterdale]

2024 Musto Mens Champ Smock 2 0 82093 - Black - Sailing - Sailing - Dinghy - Spray

Musto Sailing: A stretchy and protective smock built for fast-paced inshore sailing. Superior freedom of movem...

www.wetsuitoutlet.co.uk

That sort of thing but women’s.

 

[Flame_]

2024 Musto Mens Champ Smock 2 0 82093 - Black - Sailing - Sailing - Dinghy - Spray

Musto Sailing: A stretchy and protective smock built for fast-paced inshore sailing. Superior freedom of movem...

www.wetsuitoutlet.co.uk

That sort of thing but women’s.

That does look good! Yeah, would need to be women's or possibly boys. I'll have a search around for them, thanks!!

 

[Patterdale]

That does look good! Yeah, would need to be women's or possibly boys. I'll have a search around for them, thanks!!

I have a large boys one, I’m 5’1 size 8-10 and it’s a perfect fit. Very smart looking actually on a horse, people always comment!

 

[ester]

The more race ready cycling stuff is a lot shorter in the body than the more relaxed kit, it will have a longer tail but often not by much. I have this for instance which is short on me and only really works if I'm bent over cycling - it sits on top of belly rather than over https://www.gorewear.com/en-uk/tempest-jacket-womens-100818?variant=2310

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

https://www.aigle.com/int/en-se/p/ais24mout012-AV07_noir.html

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

https://www.gorewear.com/en-uk/stream-jacket-womens-100823

 

[ester]

yeah so 'regular fit' will likely be longer than 'slim fit' stuff - but it might end up being try it and see territory. But I am also the sort of person who had 9 bike helmets in my living room at one point to see what actually fitted. . .

 

[Flame_]

Ordered this one in XS. I was trying to avoid being any more covered in orange but typically it was half the price of the black one so more orange it is, lol.

https://www.musto.com/en_gb/champ-smock-20-82093?color=1020&gad_source=1&utm_source=awin&utm_medium=affiliateGB&utm_campaign=Genie+Shopping&sv1=affiliate&sv_campaign_id=259955&awc=32355_1710804190_031aa48fe43e997d51241b190799172c

 

[ester]

fingers crossed! I hate knowing what I want and not finding it.
I have a musto blouson that is just right in most weathers circa 2010 in the bargain bin at badminton. I visited the scottish hhoer's wooden hut on the campsite and they'd bought 3 so I went and bought one the next day

 

[Caol Ila]

The barn is where Gore-Tex goes to die.

To understand why, you have to understand a little bit about how permeable technical membranes like Gore-Tex work.

It has to do two opposing things. Keep water from coming in, but also let water out. You see, it's easy and cheap to make something waterproof. You can wear a bin bag, and the rain won't touch you, but you will be a drookit, sweaty mess because it's not breathable, and your body is always producing some amount of water vapour. Obviously a lot more if you are doing any kind of exercise. So your material needs to have small holes allowing sweat to escape, but they can't let larger water particles, like rain, inside the jacket. This is not easy to make. Every single waterproof jacket will have some compromises, whether that's in weight, waterproofness, or breathability.

Gear companies have many ways of doing this. Gore-Tex, which is in a million different things, is actually made up of several layers of stuff. There are a few different configurations -- 2 layer, 2.5 layer, 3 layer -- which affect weight, waterproofness, and breathability, but the critical piece here is that all Gore-Tex things have two separate layers of membranes which have slightly different properties.

On the inside, you have a thin layer of stuff that's hydrophilic, or water-loving. It absorbs water vapour -- so perspiration -- and then moves it out of the membrane via diffusion. Remember that from high school chemistry? Molecules want to move from an area of high concentration to an area of lower concentration. The layer on the outside is hydrophobic, or water hating. This is made of PTFE (which is apparently bad for the environment and gear companies are trying to find alternatives) and resists water coming at it, even at speed, like when the wind as whipping rain at you at 50mph on the summit of a mountain. But because it still has tiny holes, it allows water vapour to escape, again through the process of diffusion. Otherwise, you might as well be wearing a bin bag. For it to work, the two layers (which often have backing fabric in between, depending on the jacket) work together. The outer layer acts as insulation. If it's not properly hydrophobic, it soaks up the rain, cooling the inner layer, and you get cold.

If your outer membrane loses its water repellancy, you will feel like your jacket is leaking. It isn't (probably). If the outer later becomes completely soaked, diffusion no longer works because there's a high concentration of water molecules everywhere. That means that the perspiration produced by your body is no longer moving to the outside of the jacket, so you end up feeling damp. But most likely from your own sweat, not the rain.

Why does this matter at the barn? Because your jacket is constantly exposed to dust, sweat (yours and your horse's), dirt, and mud in a way that no mountaineering/climbing jacket was ever designed to face. That Gore-Tex membrane which will serve you well on countless mountains for many years will get clogged up with shight, lose its hydrophobic abilties, and even if you try to keep it clean, you will never stop all the barn dirt from degrading it until it eventually won't work at all.

I've used retired mountaineering jackets at the barn. They really, really don't last long.

There are other ways -- and cheaper ways -- of making waterproof clothing. Lots of companies put a laminate DWR coating on their jacket, which repels water but keeps breathability. In my experience, this isn't as durable or long-lasting as Gore-Tex for outdoorsy activities, but is great for the barn, because nothing is durable at the barn, not even an Arc'Teryx Alpha AR (and I love Arc'Teryx and own many of their things...my mountaineering jacket is 13 years old and still going, but it never goes to the barn). So you might as well use something cheap.

You can also have heavy fabrics which create insulation and water resistence with a DWR coatings and lots of layers. Even when the DWR coating gives up (and they do, quite quickly, which is why I don't use cheap waterproofs for mountains) and you get a bit damp, you stay warm. But these are heavy. Like construction jackets or sailing jackets. You would not want to take one of these climbing or mountaineering, but unless you're doing 100k endurance rides, you don't give a sh1t about weight at the barn. For most daily equestrian activities (not running XC or racing or that sort of thing), you can also take a bit of a hit on breathability because you're not doing sustained high aerobic output activity, like hiking up a mountain.

There's a lot more to it, and gear companies faff around with different materials and combinations of materials that alter weight, water repellancy, and breathability, but that's the basics.

So yeah, Gore-Tex never made it big on the equestrian market because there's no point. It's expensive, and the PTFE membrane doesn't withstand daily exposure to horses and barns well enough to justify the cost (over much cheaper DWR stuff), whilst it's other properties, like weight-saving, aren't as important to most riders.

You wouldn't wear this sexy thing on a mountain. It has a two-way zip and no hood, though. Do you get wet if it rains heavily? Yup. The DWR coating is more or less gubbed at this point. But I'm usually pretty close to civilization so it doesn't matter.

 

[Patterdale]

Ordered this one in XS. I was trying to avoid being any more covered in orange but typically it was half the price of the black one so more orange it is, lol.

https://www.musto.com/en_gb/champ-smock-20-82093?color=1020&gad_source=1&utm_source=awin&utm_medium=affiliateGB&utm_campaign=Genie+Shopping&sv1=affiliate&sv_campaign_id=259955&awc=32355_1710804190_031aa48fe43e997d51241b190799172c

I was looking myself after posting the link let us know how it is!!

 

[Flame_]

Yeah, I understand the breathability being a big issue. The coat is purely for riding in in wet weather, I have a whole other pile of yard coats and jackets. A decent waterproof jacket for proper, active riding seems very elusive!

Crossing fingers that this new Musto is that hidden gem. Thanks Patterdale!

 

[palo1]

Yeah, I understand the breathability being a big issue. The coat is purely for riding in in wet weather, I have a whole other pile of yard coats and jackets. A decent waterproof jacket for proper, active riding seems very elusive!

Crossing fingers that this new Musto is that hidden gem. Thanks Patterdale!

Well, I hope the Musto is good for what you need. I think it looks great! In my experience, the very best, truly waterproof and breathable coat which is relatively lightweight and designed for riding is the Ri-dry. It's not short but I have never sat on mine as it is designed to cover the back of the saddle. It also covers the tops of your legs so unless riding in constant heavy rain you don't really need overtrousers as well. It's MUCH more flattering and smarter than a dry-robe type coat. It has a 2-way zip, decent pockets and is genuinely super - tough. I think they are really in a class of their own. I'm not sponsored by Ri-dry!!

 

[Tiddlypom]

The Ri-Dry classic coats are very good traditional riding jackets if you can stand that sort of look. Been around for years in the hunting and shooting set, and seem to last and stay fully waterproof for ever.

I caved in and got one last year. Flattering they aren’t, but very comfortable to wear.

This is a pro pic taken the day after Storm Babet. We were all dressed for another deluge, but it was unexpectedly mild and dry - I didn’t sweat up or feel in any way constricted under my Ri-Dry. It looks like a waxed jacket but isn’t.

ETA cross posted with palo1

 

[palo1]

The Ri-Dry classic coats are very good traditional riding jackets if you can stand that sort of look. Been around for years in the hunting and shooting set, and seem to last and stay fully waterproof for ever.

I caved in and got one last year. Flattering they aren’t, but very comfortable to wear.

This is a pro pic taken the day after Storm Babet. We were all dressed for another deluge, but it was unexpectedly mild and dry - I didn’t sweat up or feel in any way constricted under my Ri-Dry. It looks like a waxed jacket but isn’t.

ETA cross posted with palo1

View attachment 136009

They have brought out a more fitted style which is more flattering though yours looks very smart! And, imo, much nicer than a dry-robe though I know they are very popular.

 

[sbloom]

Fingers crossed for your Musto, they're a different way of tackling waterproofing but Paramo has some shorter jackets and smocks.

 

[Caol Ila]

Fingers crossed for your Musto, they're a different way of tackling waterproofing but Paramo has some shorter jackets and smocks.

My personal experience of Paramo is that it's a good way to get wet. But lots of people like it.

That all said, I was on the lookout for a used one to take to the barn because it might do alright there.