Why oh why dont people let foals be babies

Is showing your yearlings and two year olds etc the reason for breeding them? If so fine. If it is a prelude to showing under saddle could someone please tell me how well the young horses shown in hand subsequently do under saddle. My own research in to this appears to show that the best ridden show horses were never shown as yearlings - 3 year olds. Obviously there will be exceptions. I am talking here of showing at say County show level. I also do not think that it is great for a young horse's joints to be travelled around the country in a lorry/trailer. I am not talking about people going to the one odd local show for fun.

Equally, the top international dressage horses and show jumpers are not often the ones that win the 4 and 5 year old classes.

Until the growth plates are fused at maturity any work can harm the horses limbs. Hence racehorses that run at 2 and 3 years old, may be faster than at any other age, but do not often stand up to much serious work after their racing career.

As for taking baby horses out on roads etc. Do you put a bit in their mouth or do you lead them out in a headcollar. If the former that is not the best way to mouth a horse. If the latter, should anything spook your young horse and it panic and run off, no human being can physically hold a panicing horse in a headcollar. In my personal opinion it is exceedingly dangerous to take any horse on a road in only a headcollar EVER! That danger is not only to the handler and the horse but to other road users and we, the horse community, have a responsibilty to take safety very seriously. Or to put it another way around, would you be happy to meet someone on the road in a car that they had not bothered to service the brakes?!

I am talking here of horses and notsmall ponies. They are more mature sooner and are obviously not so strong!
 
sport horse said:
Until the growth plates are fused at maturity any work can harm the horses limbs. Hence racehorses that run at 2 and 3 years old, may be faster than at any other age, but do not often stand up to much serious work after their racing career.
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I'm not sure this is actually true - I remember seeing some research a while ago that suggested that horses that had been worked early actually stood up to later work better than those who had been left alone. The study was looking at retrained racehorses that went eventing. I didn't ever see the final paper though. Happy to be corrected if there is research that shows the opposite.
 
there is a school of thought that states in a similar way to weight bearing improves bone density in humans so short spells of work benefit the leg bones of young horses but I think as long as they are turned out they get that level of exercise in the field the issue comes whith young foal to three year olds being extensively stabled they then dont get the weight bearing needed to strengthen the bones and as a result have a similar disease to osteoporosis in humans
I dont think this means that they should be worked hard as babies though the odd walk out and showing will certainly benefit them provided of course you are in complete control and dont take foolish risks
My horses are all shown as youngster and then under saddle with similar levels of success but I do understand where you are coming from as the grossly obese babies seen winning are often never seen again once they stop growing upwards at three as that is when the laminitis gets them.
Truthfully mine have always been as fat as I dared for showing but as fit as I could get them in accordance with age so they live out 24/7 are fed a laminitis friendly diet even though they havent got a tendency and are left to be babies 99% of the time doing at most three shows a year
 
I think the research about growth plates is pretty well established but that is going by growth plates alone. It doesn't take into account tendon and ligament growth, muscle growth and development. If you look at the wild herd research going in America (cloud foundation.org) the foals walk hundreds of miles from the moment they can walk over above average terrains and play way more than any lunge session can ever hope to emulate and the fillies start reproducing by three years of age well into their twenties and they look fab and can run for miles. Not to mention the best looking hooves anyone has ever seen despite no "hoof care".

I think it all boils down to context and pragmatism. I have done my own research and think that waiting to work a horse too late is also detrimental to a long career as much as starting too early. The tendons and ligaments become accustomed to low-functionality and are weak unless conditioned slowly. Tendons and ligaments that have been accustomed to high-functionality are stronger and more supple. This also depends on how the horse is kept - at field or stabled. So many factors, one size doesn't fit all but it's good to have a general rule of thumb.

Whatever your thoughts, it remains that there are tried and tested methods to follow and they exist for a reason which aim to produce a ridden mount that is (relatively) safe for a human to mess about with most of its life (give and take a few factors such as breed and breeding) but it is still a horse at the end of the day and have minds of their own however you prepare it. Some are going to be great, some awful and most fall somewhere in between.
 
Simple question - why? Why would you want/need to lunge a foal?!

I'm all for them seeing a bit of life and doing bombproofing, etc, in hand. But long reining, lungeing and backing should be reserved for older horses. Not only for physical maturity but mental too. My 2 1/2 yo was going out for in hand walks at 8 months but he had a year of growing and playing from 15 months until today. I kept him ticking over with daily feet handling and the odd walk but he hasn't forgotten what he learned before. However next year he will only be long reined and then lightly backed at the very end of summer. He is a very big horse and needs his growing time. No point in rushing things, he will be with me forever. Unless they have a major attitude problem I really don't see the need for doing loads when they are young.
 
Wow, that's is crazy my 16mth old does nothing but eat! Fair enough he can be led/caught/brushed & feet but haven't even thought about lunging or bridles etc.. Or even seen one yet. Poor lil mite, though on some sites you see yearling & 2 yrs old driven & ridden guessing this is how it starts.
 
I've just got a lovely little weanling. He has spent a week in, been up and down the lorry, got used to being handled, had feet picked up, learnt to trot up in hand and lead around. He's now out with my gang and is very much bottom of the pecking order (all youngsters with two older mares and a gelding to keep them in line). He is however wearing a rug as foal coat wasn't standing up to the horrid stormy weather and he got soaked through and looked throughly glum. He won't come in again now for a few months at least. I bring mine in every few months for a few days for some handling. Its the yearlings turn to come in on tuesday this week for a few days and have some handling. I think that's all they need really, and it teaches them to be stabled and away from their mates for a bit. If I ever get motivated I will take mine and do a couple of local level youngstock classes this summer, but not in any real hurry! Certainly wouldn't be lunging or taking out for walks. Best thing to get them used to traffic is to put in field next to the road for a few weeks!
 
There is a big discussion on a certain FB page at the moment about fully clipping a shetland foal (weanling). Apparently it needs clipping and rugging because it has grown a typical winter coat and is getting sweaty in the field. Also, apparently, it is now getting dehydrated and the vet has also told the owner to clip it out :o Bloody hell, carry on like that and it will be backed and have lateral work established at two! ;)
 
Well dunkley, funny you should say... How do you think these 3 yo "talented" dressage stars or eventing stars start? A lot goes on behind the scenes. Many begin their careers as foals running alongside their dam.

Not saying its right, just saying it goes on!
 
sport horse said:
As for taking baby horses out on roads etc. Do you put a bit in their mouth or do you lead them out in a headcollar. If the former that is not the best way to mouth a horse. If the latter, should anything spook your young horse and it panic and run off, no human being can physically hold a panicing horse in a headcollar. In my personal opinion it is exceedingly dangerous to take any horse on a road in only a headcollar EVER! That danger is not only to the handler and the horse but to other road users and we, the horse community, have a responsibilty to take safety very seriously. Or to put it another way around, would you be happy to meet someone on the road in a car that they had not bothered to service the brakes?!
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Hmm, well mine went out in a "horseman's halter" having established his basics thoroughly beforehand. I am talking quiet roads and tracks here, not the M25. As for a bit, well if the horse truly spooks and bolts that badly a bit isn't going to stop it.

Or are you suggesting those who ride in bitless bridles also have no control?

Fwiw, the youngster I am talking about is over 16.2 at 2 1/2. I can stop him quite easily as I use a 12ft rope, so even when he's being a complete t*t in the field it takes little more than one hand. Brute strength and bits are not guarantees of brake power by any means.
 
windand rain said:
love that method Dry rot and yes I do that sort of things with my babies too
My gripe was she was obvious.y going to lunge this foal on her own with the foal in the school with a lunge line on it and lunge whip in the other hand made me think there was little doubt She then tried to get it to go round at which point it totally failed to understand had no guidance and bronked and reared on the end of the line having run to the end when she waved the whip at it. So yes she was definitely intending to lunge it. I also agree that showing in hand is a great education
Oh and dry rot I would love a grulla highland filly if you ever breed one
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My web page isn't working properly at the moment and all I have in that colour is Corrie, a 2yo gelding (picture below), but I suspect he may grey out. I've a grey dun 6 month old filly but not sure which way she will go either. Her mother was a dappled grey but is going lighter every year.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t241/lagopus_lagopus/DSC_0076_zps33573567.jpg
 
Dry Rot said:
Here are some examples of the early training that I find works.

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What great ideas, Dry Rot! I shall incorporate both of these into my spook busting training of my 2yo filly.

I currently have plastic bags tied to plastic electric fence posts just inside each gateway,but will upgrade those to a flapping tarpaulin! The coat hanging above the saddle is such a good way of accustoming the youngster to experiencing the sight of a rider sitting up.

I will introduce her to gentle lunging and then long lining at age 3, I would never lunge one younger than 3. Gentle work in straight lines would be ok, though, as long it was short sessions only.

Thanks.
 
I sort of lunged a foal last year. Owner was going to a breed show & he was a cheeky colt. I had her walk at his shoulder and I 'drove' slightly behind with whip. He was taught to walk on and stand without being dragged along and for a few minutes for a nice forward trot. Only happened once and for 10 minutes to ensure owner could go to show with confidence weanling wouldn't horribly humiliate her.
I don't think it destroyed him for life.

I don't think it matters too much whether you do loads with your babies or nothing so long as what it done - is done well!
 
We all expect alot from horses in the modern world. Foals are at their optimum age for learning from birth to about 2.5 yrs. If they don't learn quick, they don't survive is the reason. To leave them fester in a field during this time is a waste of time. They need to be able to cope with life, be tied up, have their feet picked out, load, go for walks in the traffic anything and everything that you can think of really. Obviously, or perhaps not obviously, no lunging, or jumping or pratting about like that. I don't start mine under saddle until they are 4.5 yrs at least, but by then it's not an issue.
 
Love it! Highlands all piling on the trailer....

Now put ramps up, connect 4x4 and drive down to Worcestershire....sure no one would notice a few more...
 
I'll tell you what we always used to do when we bred 15 - 20 foals a year, and what seems to have worked really well. Leave the newborns with their mothers for the first 3 - 4 days, then handle the foals (halter, lead, pick up feet, tie, groom all over, etc.), then leave them out and only handle for regular worming/vaccs/feet/etc. Take 'em back in at 2-rising-3 and do a little tack on, lunging, etc. then break at 3. Never had a hard to handle, frightened or ignorant youngster and they all went on to have ridden careers. I think they need to learn from each other when they are young; plenty of time to learn from us when they are ready for work. And I see an awful lot of over-handled, spoiled and annoyed young horses these days.
 
Whilst not having the same amount of experience as sport horse I have bred 8 competition bred foals and in my experience some grow up to be spooky and some don't. They have all been easy to back and apart from learning the basics as foals (catch, have head collar put on, lead, tie up, pick feet up, move over) they were pretty much left to get on with life in the field and barn.

My first two foals (both by same stallion) I did the desensitising stuff with from weanlings - both took to it but as the got older one took everything in his stride and was very bold whilst the other still looks at the world with suspicion. As a result I didn't do any desensitising stuff with my later foals and I can't say that I think has made any difference to how they have got on with life. Strangely the one that was flightiest as a foal is now the calmest.
 
Talking about over handled spoilt and annoyed young horses, I'd agree to a certain extent that this happens, but I take the view it's not what you do, but how you do it. If people want to leave them fine, just different to what I want to do.
 
Pale Rider said:
We all expect alot from horses in the modern world. Foals are at their optimum age for learning from birth to about 2.5 yrs. If they don't learn quick, they don't survive is the reason. To leave them fester in a field during this time is a waste of time. They need to be able to cope with life, be tied up, have their feet picked out, load, go for walks in the traffic anything and everything that you can think of really. Obviously, or perhaps not obviously, no lunging, or jumping or pratting about like that. I don't start mine under saddle until they are 4.5 yrs at least, but by then it's not an issue.
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I agree with most of the above. Traffic training can be an awkward subject to where the young horses are kept/bred. I get my two into the yard with the lorry and tractors. Raising youngsters is a fascinating subject. The dam has a huge input into a foals outlook and temperament as do field companions.

The foal I bred in 2011 was very peaceful and easy. Her dam is very calm and pleasant. The foal learnt quickly and easily, now 2 she is able to stable and turn out alone or in company without question, feet, tie up, breaking roller, vet care, great manners in hand etc. I was quietly rather proud of my efforts, however I had a shock after turning the 2 year old out with a new field companion in October. The companion is a stressy hot headed mare and within a very short period of time she managed to rev up my peaceful youngster big time.

No lasting damage has been done but it took a while for the filly to settle again and it taught me to give a little more thought to field companions.
 
I totally agree that there is no right or wrong way to bring up your foals - everyone is entitled to their own view. I do still think that if you take a horse out on a public highway and are involved in an accident you are at huge risk in todays 'nothing is an accident' culture of being found guilty of not having control over your animal. That judgement might not be your own but it could well be the judgement of smart lawyers and legal eagles! Just make sure you have insurance in place and that your insurance company is happy with you leading an unbroken horse on a public highway/right of way in a headcollar otherwise you may be paying huge damages to someone out of your own pocket.

Incidentally this did happen on my farm. A local person bought an unbroken gypsy pony and did exactly as several posters here. She walked it around the roads and bridleways in a headcollar. She even walked on a footpath through my field of horses - I was left to sort out the resultant mess while she hysterically sobbed that she could not catch it or lead it!!
 
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I lead my miniatures out regularly on the roads and always have done even when they were under a year old, they got to see traffic including lorries and buses and met lots of people and dogs. They are now well known in the village and everyone stops to make a fuss of them and they love it.
 
Crugeran Celt said:
I lead my miniatures out regularly on the roads and always have done even when they were under a year old, they got to see traffic including lorries and buses and met lots of people and dogs. They are now well known in the village and everyone stops to make a fuss of them and they love it.
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Big difference leading a miniature yearling and a 16.2 heavyweight hunter yearling if something goes wrong.
 
sport horse said:
I totally agree that there is no right or wrong way to bring up your foals - everyone is entitled to their own view. I do still think that if you take a horse out on a public highway and are involved in an accident you are at huge risk in todays 'nothing is an accident' culture of being found guilty of not having control over your animal. That judgement might not be your own but it could well be the judgement of smart lawyers and legal eagles! Just make sure you have insurance in place and that your insurance company is happy with you leading an unbroken horse on a public highway/right of way in a headcollar otherwise you may be paying huge damages to someone out of your own pocket.

Incidentally this did happen on my farm. A local person bought an unbroken gypsy pony and did exactly as several posters here. She walked it around the roads and bridleways in a headcollar. She even walked on a footpath through my field of horses - I was left to sort out the resultant mess while she hysterically sobbed that she could not catch it or lead it!!
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Well, where do you start with this. Some people can and will make a pigs ear out of anything to do with horses, youngsters, broken, un broken or whatever. I'm not sure where you're going with this. Are you saying that you cannot move young horses about on a highway in a headcollar.
 
There is no law to say you cannot move your horses on the highway in a headcollar. However I think that if you were involved in an accident any lawyer acting for the 'other side' could very well suggest that you were not 'in control' of your horse. Despite what other people think, once a horse has got ahead of you (ie in a panic, shot forward) there is no man on earth with any length of rope or lunge line that could stop a big horse in only a headcollar. If anyone thinks they can, I could, but wont, offer them the chance to lead one of my international horses to the field. I guarantee absolutely they will not get there on their feet - if they are very strong and determined to hang on they may be dragged along the floor!!

I have to move my own youngsters along a lane to one particular field. Yes they go in headcollars and ropes. They have one person per horse. We go when the lane is quietest, on a day with good weather and by crossing our home fields we take the shortest amount of road possible. I then have a car in front with flashing lights and also one behind. I hope that should we have an accident I could prove that I have taken every sensible precaution. This does involve forward planning and calling on friends and staff etc to help with the move but everyone is always happy to help as they see it as 'the safe way'. If I had to take an older horse on a road to turnout, I would routinely be using a bridle or Chifney.

Nothing on earth would persuade me to take the horses out on the roads to show them traffic as youngsters and we do not have one mature horse that cannot hack out in traffic. Nor is anything particularly spooky.
 
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sport horse said:
There is no law to say you cannot move your horses on the highway in a headcollar. However I think that if you were involved in an accident any lawyer acting for the 'other side' could very well suggest that you were not 'in control' of your horse. Despite what other people think, once a horse has got ahead of you (ie in a panic, shot forward) there is no man on earth with any length of rope or lunge line that could stop a big horse in only a headcollar. If anyone thinks they can, I could, but wont, offer them the chance to lead one of my international horses to the field. I guarantee absolutely they will not get there on their feet - if they are very strong and determined to hang on they may be dragged along the floor!!

I have to move my own youngsters along a lane to one particular field. Yes they go in headcollars and ropes. They have one person per horse. We go when the lane is quietest, on a day with good weather and by crossing our home fields we take the shortest amount of road possible. I then have a car in front with flashing lights and also one behind. I hope that should we have an accident I could prove that I have taken every sensible precaution.

Nothing on earth would persuade me to take the horses out on the roads to show them traffic as youngsters and we do not have one mature horse that cannot hack out in traffic. Nor is anything particularly spooky.
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Ever thought of training them, lol.
 
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