Why oh why dont people let foals be babies

Ha Ha. The international horse in question is, surprisingly, fairly highly trained. However it does not go out in a field too often as it is often away for weeks at a time so when it does go out it can be quite exciting and it is a great example to prove to people that however well trained you are not always in control.

As horse owners/riders we do have to consider the effect of our actions on other road/track users and for people to tell me that they can quite definately always hold their horses in a headcollar tells me that they are not actually prepared for the unpredictable and believe you me the one things young horse are is just that!

Anyone who does not believe that is in dream land. I just hope that while they are dreaming they do not hurt either themselves or even more importantly, anyone else.
 
sport horse said:
Ha Ha. The international horse in question is, surprisingly, fairly highly trained. However it does not go out in a field too often as it is often away for weeks at a time so when it does go out it can be quite exciting and it is a great example to prove to people that however well trained you are not always in control.

As horse owners/riders we do have to consider the effect of our actions on other road/track users and for people to tell me that they can quite definately always hold their horses in a headcollar tells me that they are not actually prepared for the unpredictable and believe you me the one things young horse are is just that!

Anyone who does not believe that is in dream land. I just hope that while they are dreaming they do not hurt either themselves or even more importantly, anyone else.
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Well, if you're not in control of your horse, it is in no way trained to any level. Moving youngsters with a chiffney is just plain wrong.
I'm not looking for a battle of strength with any horse, I just want them to do as I ask, when I ask, which is what they all do. Our horses are ridden in headcollars everywhere, we also pony youngsters in head collars. They are trained from an early age to do this, and behave appropreatly. I expect my horses to live in the world as it is, with everything going on around them. You cannot stop the world because you want to move a horse. I certainly don't believe what you say is the right or proper or appropreate way to treat horses. I don't know about dream land, but you describe a nightmare for you and your horses.
 
It's not a question of strength it's a question of training. Being well schooled under saddle does not equal being well schooled on the ground. I train mine on the ground with the aim that they will respond to the lightest of pressure on the rope, in a normal headcollar. I would be very disappointed if I had to lead mine in a chifney or bridle only on the roads and be asking myself where I had gone wrong in my basic training
 
My eighteen month old will:

stand tied up, though will eat the rope! Has to be tied short so he doesn't choke on it;

follow me into the trailer and travel fine;

have his hooves picked out and stand for the farrier;

wear a rug with a neck;

have tarpaulin draped over him;

back up in the stable when his feed is taken in; and

stand to be bathed.

Just moved him from a yard where they started bringing in at night to a place with 24/7/365 turnout, in a herd, with shelter. He's handled every day, but on the whole he's now spending his time learning to be a horse. He'll be bitted at two so he can go out on the quiet roads, then turned away again 'till three, then backed, then turned away 'till he's four. In the 'turned away' periods he'll have some despooking sessions that he will enjoy as he enjoys interaction with humans and I'd like it to stay that way.
 
Ridefast, we also train ours to lead in hand etc. However out on a public road you are not in control of the situation. Is your young horse trained to accept the idiot driver leaning on his car horn, the skip lorry hitting a bump and crashing around etc etc. We can all train for the predictable but however well trained your horse is the unpredictable can always frighten him/her and cause the panic situation. Even police horses can have this happen.

If your horse does get loose on the highway it is your responsibilty. I am only pointing out that the law may take the attitude that a horse in a headcollar is not under 'proper control'

Maybe I am overly cautious but I know that if one of my horses got loose and careered off into someone's car and killed them I would feel even worse if I had not taken all possible precautions. Maybe, after 50 years of breeding and producing horses to a high level I am not very efficient or knowledgeable. I am however, responsible for my staff and apprentices safety, my riders safety and my horses safety. I make every effort to run my operation taking this into account and I try to develop 'safe practise' within my yard.

You must make your own decisions and together with your insurers and lawyers decide what is your own 'safe practise' bearing in mind the modern Health and Safety and Litigation laws.
 
tallyho! said:
Whoa! What's he going to make? 18.2 perhaps...? Could be more. Flippin eck.
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He topped out, age 8 at 18.1hh. He competed up to medium dressage and did well as a show horse. By Embla George out of a Colman mare which is where the size came from. Fabulous horse in rocking horse dapple grey, sadly missed, run free big boy. I forgive him for running me into the water jump at the Royal Show as a yearling - he got a little strong !
 
I tend not to use headcollars, except for tying up or travelling, instead we use old fashioned rope halters. I would expect that by the time our younsters are led out on the road that they are used to any manner of noise and trust me sufficiently to not panic as long as I don't!
 
AdorableAlice said:
He topped out, age 8 at 18.1hh. He competed up to medium dressage and did well as a show horse. By Embla George out of a Colman mare which is where the size came from. Fabulous horse in rocking horse dapple grey, sadly missed, run free big boy. I forgive him for running me into the water jump at the Royal Show as a yearling - he got a little strong !
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Aw I am so sorry to hear of your loss. Sounds like a gorgeous big lad. Run free xx
 
I must be the most inexpert owner of a youngster but at least i had the sense to get help from an expert. I have now had Xas for 2 years, he is 2 1/2 now and he is handled every day. He leads and long lines (off a bit) round the tracks and along the quiet roads, (we always do this with 2 people) has the farrier, and although he has not been clipped we have run the noisy clippers over him and he is chilled as can be. Loads well but travelling is still a work in progress, though we dont do much. Havent taken him to any shows and he is still a bit excitable when other horses gallop up to him as we go past the field, but I think thats understandable given his age. He will be backed by a lightweight expert in the summer and I hope to haul my fat bottom on to him a year after that. He is 15hh now and is built like a curly percheron so it is a very good job he knows the ropes as much as he does.
 
I agree with most things like yes youngsters should be taught manners and leading and brushing, feet trimmed that kinda thing, absolutly nothing wrong with taking them for a walk in hand. But there are certain things i think should wait untill they are more mature... Last night i did a bit of facebook stalking of the gentleman i brought my then 4yr old from and came across some pics of him jumping 1m10- 1m15 as a 2yr old!! And there was me wandering how he had torn tendons by the age of 5! Im crossing all my fingers he makes a full recovery next yr but was it really necessary to jump that height at that age? I know people want to see scope etc but surely that could have waited until he was at least 3-3.5! Each to there own i guess
 
tallyho! said:
Just wondered, does anyone ever lead using a cavesson?
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Yes. My big horse had an annoying habit of ripping away on the way to turn out if he had not been out for a while. He would only do it on a headcollar. I used a cavesson, lunge line and breaking roller with side reins on to lead him, not to give me more power, but simply to kid him into thinking he was about to work rather then be turned out. He is a total gentleman under tack and would not even dream of being rude.

I just tacked him up (he wore boots all round in the field), led him out, put him on a circle in walk, changed the rein, did another circle, put him to halt, untacked him still on the circle, gave him a mint and walked away.
 
alex2601 said:
I agree with most things like yes youngsters should be taught manners and leading and brushing, feet trimmed that kinda thing, absolutly nothing wrong with taking them for a walk in hand. But there are certain things i think should wait untill they are more mature... Last night i did a bit of facebook stalking of the gentleman i brought my then 4yr old from and came across some pics of him jumping 1m10- 1m15 as a 2yr old!! And there was me wandering how he had torn tendons by the age of 5! Im crossing all my fingers he makes a full recovery next yr but was it really necessary to jump that height at that age? I know people want to see scope etc but surely that could have waited until he was at least 3-3.5! Each to there own i guess
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I came across something in dog training that I call "awareness". It is simply opening the animal's eyes to what it is capable of.

Again, I follow the base line of no compulsion. I would never chase a youngster over a jump, even when free jumping. But I do sometimes put a rail at ground level across a gateway. They learn to step over. Then negotiate a small jump. It can be quite funny as one yearling banged his shins on the rail and was convinced for quite a while that it was impossible for him to even step over a 6 inch "jump"! But some obviously love jumping.

Do young ponies never jump when following their mothers through a wood? I'd lead my first pony, an Anglo-Arab, out into the forestry, around fallen trees, then take his head collar off and walk home. He'd the choice of remaining in the forest alone or using his intelligence and courage to find his way to follow me through the timber.

The only downside to self-jumping was a couple of broken gates before they'd learnt their limitations! One 2yo Highland pony jumped a standard stock fence from a standing start with two witnesses watching from a distance. The only reason she did it seems to be that it was quicker than going round by an open gate!

Strange things, horses, but also a constant source of amusement and wonder! If they want to do it and can be encouraged to do it within their capabilities, I can't see why not. But compulsion is something else. I think that's when the harm is done.
 
I have a photo of my little chap taking a huge leap over a pole that was lying on the ground in the arena. He was just in there to let him explore! He jumped it of his own volition and looked very excited too.
 
In response to some of the earlier posts regarding headcollars, I personally don't lead out using a headcollar. But I don't use a bit on yearlings either. There are other options!
I still hold the view that a major panic/bolt isn't going to be stopped by a bit. It's about training. And I have never seen a "jackknife" using a long rope fail on a horse that takes off, no matter how big it is....
 
Dry Rot said:
The only downside to self-jumping was a couple of broken gates before they'd learnt their limitations! One 2yo Highland pony jumped a standard stock fence from a standing start with two witnesses watching from a distance. The only reason she did it seems to be that it was quicker than going round by an open gate!

Strange things, horses, but also a constant source of amusement and wonder! If they want to do it and can be encouraged to do it within their capabilities, I can't see why not. But compulsion is something else. I think that's when the harm is done.
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I agree with this completely
My highland has to have a 6ft fence round her as she thinks dinner will arrive quicker if she jumps the fence and joins me at the feed room she jumps the five foot one from a gentle walk or standstill and that is wearing her turnout rug
All my youngsters will jump the jumps left up in the field for fun and to avoid having to go round them so yes they do jump instinctively and usually from a few days old over the poles on the floor
 
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AdorableAlice said:
Big difference leading a miniature yearling and a 16.2 heavyweight hunter yearling if something goes wrong.
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Yes, not sure I would take a 16.2hh yearling, I do walk my 14.2hh mare as she is not able to be ridden but loves to get out and about but I do avoid contact with people with her just because she is not the most sociable around children.
 
I recently saw a FB post from America with a Clydesdale weanling fully harnessed. I asked if that was normal practise over there and that, along with hitching yearlings in a pair seems to be! Very sad!

All for handling and teaching about 'stuff' that happens in world like people, bikes, cars, wheely bins plastic bags but let them be horses!
 
Tell me about it. I work with someone who has a yearling and she's already put bit bridle and saddle on it and leant over it. She's always telling me about how she's doing this and that with it. It obviously has had enough as it's gone from being a very placid cob type to now being bargey and she's said it's reared up a few times at her. She 's also given it a full clip too? Which first of all she couldn't get the clippers near it and resorted to hacking the coat off with scissors?!
 
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Only read initial post and then last page.

Babies will learn things you teach them. You don't have to drum it into them endlessly. Trying too hard to have the youngster with the best manners normally results in a monster. Keep it simple. They don't have to know everything by age 1 to become a solid citizen. Make sure they have company for stimulation. Horse company, appropriate company, is the best thing you can do for them. Bolshy youngsters can have more benefit from an older no nonsense but gentle horse than a person. But you need to know your herd pretty well or can be a disaster. I teach mine to lead young. No biggie. No fuss. I always use a slip through lead that early. I will not jackknife a youngster. Delicats bones in the neck. Older youngsters are led out in a rope headcollar. I'm small and only have warmblood and wb/tb crosses. They've all been pretty good.

I say lots of these things as someone who learned the hard way of how to raise a solid citizen. I don't learn squat unless I make mistakes. So now it's always less is more but yet they still grow up with manners and know what's expected. And no and again they have the odd feral moment growing up. Don't take it personal and try and over do things because you've been dissed. Or so you think. That's how it feels in human terms. Timing is EVERYTHING.

Terri
 
Overhandling young horses = over humanised full grown horses with a definite lack of boundaries and respect for the 2 legged beast.
They are thought to lead and stand for the farrier and that is pretty much it.
Otherwise they are in a field, in a herd ensuring there is an older mare or gelding (or both) to establish boundaries, rules and discipline.
I cannot lay back my ears, swish my tail, bar my teeth so I would rather delegate to the 4-legged field boss.
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
Horse company, appropriate company, is the best thing you can do for them. Bolshy youngsters can have more benefit from an older no nonsense but gentle horse than a person.
Terri
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Totally agree with this - my youngster was starting to be a little monster (good natured but getting too bolshy) as mom just ignored him and didn't really tell him off at all. When he was weaned he went out into a group with a nother youngster, couple of experienced broodies (who didn't have foals at that time) and a couple of geldings. He was firmly put in his place and has turned into a much nicer horse as a result. It definately did him the world of good to be out with some firmer horses, spilled over into his human interaction a lot.
 
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