Why oh why oh why! A small rant...

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Sarah1

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Right, after reading a few of the threads on here recently I've had to wonder to myself why oh why do people treat their horses like they're made of glass?!
They are not babies, will not melt if left out in the rain and do not think and feel like we do.
I've had a quick look at the Clayton Fredricks thread on here and there are comments that just make me want to scream! Clayton is a professional, he probably doesn't get the emotional attachment to his horses that us every day recreational riders get. They are not pets they are a means to make a living. Of course he would have been concerned about his horse when it fell, just because he put his own treatment 1st or was possibly a bit dazed & confused after such a fall doesn't make him a bad person! Jeez!
Not exactly the same as I'm no professional but, I fell on the road a few years back and banged my head quite badly, ended up in A & E and generally wasn't myself for a few weeks - I jumped up straight away & sent my husband who had sprinted to me to catch my horse & make sure he was ok. I was an idiot! I should have been more concerned for myself, bloody horse wouldn't listen to me & that's why we ended up on the deck in the 1st place & with hindsight I needed a few minutes to come round & assess how I actually felt rather than jumping to me feet.
Don't get me wrong, I love my boy and wouldn't part with him for all the tea in China but some people just seem to take these feelings to the extreme and wrap their horses in cotton wool! :rolleyes:
 
I think you are making two very different points here: one about the role of horses in sport etc. and the debate about whether they are there to 'do a job' for us; and one about how horses are looked after. I have never thought that my horse owes me anything or has to do a job for me, so I suppose I treat him like a pet. Despite that, he is worked and I am hoping to compete with him when he is a little more mature, and although he is happy and well looked-after, I do not wrap him up in cotton wool.
 
Possibly but I was thinking more of some of the comments on the Clayton thread - one person said even if her horse had the ability she simply could not present him to such huge fences as she'd be too worried for him (or words to that effect) and another likened Sam Penns reaction to that of a mother!
People do what they want to do - if they want to have a horse that's a surrogate child then fair enough - but don't slate someone else because they don't mollycoddle their horses and/or treat them as animals rather than human beings.
As I said I'm no professional so to a certain extent my horse is a pet too I suppose but the difference is he's kept as a horse, he's not overfed/under worked/rugged to his eyeballs at the presence of a few clouds etc etc and yes, he's expected to do a job - be that job hacking out, jumping, schooling or whatever I decide we're doing on that day. Of course I care about him but because he's not the centre of my universe I may be accused of not caring, as others have been on past posts.
This is a debate as old as the hills I guess but it's one that never ceases to amaze me!
ETS - I feel my horse does owe me something, he came to me at 4 years old after having already had a few homes (through no fault of his own), I care for him very well and he has everything he needs to be what he is - a horse - he gets 23 hours a day (for instance) to do whatever he wants so I EXPECT him to co-operate for the 1 hour a day that I want to do something with him. I know they're not robots and I'm more than happy to put up with a few high spirits from him but if he was sour and ill tempered (as some spoiled horses can be & I have seen horses like this over the years) I would be a bit pi$$ed off actually!
 
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I don't think Clayton Fredericks reacted badly either, there were plenty of people on scene to deal with the horse while you are recovering from a crashing fall, it doesn't indicate a lack of concern/care if you aren't kissing your horse's nose. It's also a bit different when there are hundreds of spectators watching and he possibly wanted to play things down.

I do think though that a compassionate rider often gets more out of their horses, if a horse is sour and ill tempered then I think it's worth looking at why, not just getting pi$$ed off by it. Taking your horse's needs into consideration could result in a happier, more willing animal at the end of the day, and I'm sure just like us they have days when they get pi$$ed off too!

Actually if I had a much loved horse that was capable of burghley I wouldn't run it either, there are always risks with everything, if you are prepared to take the risk then fair enough, but you've got to be prepared to lose what you love the higher up the sport you go.
 
I wouldn't risk my horses either. I cannot comment on CF's reaction as I didn't see it, and also because people are often pretty dazed after a fall. Personally though, I don't think people should be critisised for doting on their horses. We all feel differently. I have had many horses, but none of them have ever touched my heart so much as my old mare. I have two paddock ornaments at present. I would find it much less traumatic losing my gelding than my mare. But that does not mean I do not care for my gelding. On the contrary, he has really landed on his feet with me as I have owned him two and a half years and probably only got to ride him properly, without problems, around four times! Most people would have PTS by now, but he is happy and comfortable in the field, and I could not bring myself to do it.
 
You can be compassionate without being a push over and you can be compassionate but still treat a horse like a horse! :)
As I said I have known many horses over the years who were spoiled rotten (to the point of choosing whether they hacked out or not :rolleyes:) that were both of those things & worse! And they had everything and I mean everything checked and double checked - there was nothing physically wrong they were just totally dominant over their owners, had no boundaries and no direction.
My own horses needs are met, including him having a 'leader' so he doesn't need to shoulder that responsibility - he's a very happy go lucky chap but if he was fussed & faffed to death he'd be truly miserable, he's more of a no nonsense character - much like myself I suppose ;)
With regards to the running of a much loved animal around a course like Burghley - some horses are happier with such a job to do and more of a danger to themselves when not in hard/intense work, they need something to keep their minds busy. Tom Quigley was with my YM in his younger days and he was a horse that needed a job - a job like top class eventing - if he wasn't worked he'd start jumping out of the field etc just for fun, for something to occupy him. By all accounts he was a total sweetheart too! :)
 
Wagtail said:
I wouldn't risk my horses either. I cannot comment on CF's reaction as I didn't see it, and also because people are often pretty dazed after a fall. Personally though, I don't think people should be critisised for doting on their horses. We all feel differently. I have had many horses, but none of them have ever touched my heart so much as my old mare. I have two paddock ornaments at present. I would find it much less traumatic losing my gelding than my mare. But that does not mean I do not care for my gelding. On the contrary, he has really landed on his feet with me as I have owned him two and a half years and probably only got to ride him properly, without problems, around four times! Most people would have PTS by now, but he is happy and comfortable in the field, and I could not bring myself to do it.
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There's nothing wrong at all with giving a horse a good life but IMO they should not be treated like babies (I'm not saying this is how you treat your horses BTW!).
Hey, live & let live is my motto - if someone wanted to dress their horse in a nappy & push it round in a pram then whilst I might think they had completely lost their marbles that's up to them, their horse, but it gets my goat to see people slating the likes of Clayton because he didn't rush to his horses side - not everyone has that sort of relationship with their animals, especially not (usually) professional riders who have horses come & go all of the time.
Maybe Clayton is a totally heartless barsteward, I don't know as I don't know him, but then neither do half of the people commenting on the thread who are suggesting he should have dashed to the horses side like a father would to his child! Ridiculous!
That is just an example of what I'm trying to say - this whole post isn't just about CF!
 
As far as I am concerned my horse(s) are there to do a job... and if they cannot do that job they go (one way or another).

However, I make sure they are cared for correctly, and have the correct saddles etc for the job required in hand,
 
touchstone said:
I do think though that a compassionate rider often gets more out of their horses, if a horse is sour and ill tempered then I think it's worth looking at why, not just getting pi$$ed off by it. Taking your horse's needs into consideration could result in a happier, more willing animal at the end of the day, and I'm sure just like us they have days when they get pi$$ed off too!

Actually if I had a much loved horse that was capable of burghley I wouldn't run it either, there are always risks with everything, if you are prepared to take the risk then fair enough, but you've got to be prepared to lose what you love the higher up the sport you go.
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I agree totally. Yes, a horse is an animal but I think people should always care about a horses welfare especially at this level competing for the very reason that the horse is giving them so much - be that, being top of your sport or a job to support your family. A horse IMO should always be respected for being so kind as to do what we ask of it so willingly! I dont mollycuddle my horses either (and I do event, albeit not at the dizzying heights) but I love them to pieces and I would be horrified if my horse fell like that of CF's therefore I would never run my horse at this level.
 
Sarah1 said:
You can be compassionate without being a push over and you can be compassionate but still treat a horse like a horse! :)

I would agree with that

With regards to th[/COLOR]e running of a much loved animal around a course like Burghley - some horses are happier with such a job to do and more of a danger to themselves when not in hard/intense work, they need something to keep their minds busy. Tom Quigley was with my YM in his younger days and he was a horse that needed a job - a job like top class eventing - if he wasn't worked he'd start jumping out of the field etc just for fun, for something to occupy him. By all accounts he was a total sweetheart too! :)
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I've also known horses like this, but hard work doesn't necessarily have to mean increasing the risks, as long as the horse is physically and mentally kept busy they don't have to be jumping round Badders to be happy. :)
 
touchstone said:
I've also known horses like this, but hard work doesn't necessarily have to mean increasing the risks, as long as the horse is physically and mentally kept busy they don't have to be jumping round Badders to be happy. :)
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But the horse would have to progress at some point wouldn't it? If you were going to BE and the horse showed an aptitude for the work would you stop before you got to 4* after seeing your horse move up? It's not like they just one day decided their horse was going round Burghley next weekend is it...?! :)
 
Completely agree with you Sarah.
It drives me nuts sometimes watching and listening to the nonsense that is now accepted as correct by many leisure horse owners.
 
Sarah1 said:
But the horse would have to progress at some point wouldn't it? If you were going to BE and the horse showed an aptitude for the work would you stop before you got to 4* after seeing your horse move up? It's not like they just one day decided their horse was going round Burghley next weekend is it...?! :)
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If you aren't competetive then yes, I suppose you would just stop at the level you were comfortable with, the horse doesn't have to progress to its full potential in order to be happy and fulfilled, that is the owners wishes.

My dad was offered a blank cheque and had several offers of large sums of money for a little jumping pony he had, he wouldn't sell because the pony meant a lot to him and although it was 'wasted' in monetary/potential terms just doing lesiure stuff, the pony was happy and he was happy. He is the least likely person to baby any horse.
 
touchstone said:
If you aren't competetive then yes, I suppose you would just stop at the level you were comfortable with, the horse doesn't have to progress to its full potential in order to be happy and fulfilled, that is the owners wishes.

My dad was offered a blank cheque and had several offers of large sums of money for a little jumping pony he had, he wouldn't sell because the pony meant a lot to him and although it was 'wasted' in monetary/potential terms just doing lesiure stuff, the pony was happy and he was happy. He is the least likely person to baby any horse.
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Is the none competetive stuff always 'enough' for these sort of horses though? Would they have to do more in terms of quantity to keep them occupied? Wouldn't this present it's own problems in possibly in terms of soundness...?
I realise I'm being devils advocate a little bit & I'm not being deliberately inflammatory it's just the direction my thoughts are taking...:)
 
Sarah1 said:
Is the none competetive stuff always 'enough' for these sort of horses though? Would they have to do more in terms of quantity to keep them occupied? Wouldn't this present it's own problems in possibly in terms of soundness...?
I realise I'm being devils advocate a little bit & I'm not being deliberately inflammatory it's just the direction my thoughts are taking...:)
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No, I understand your reasoning perfectly. :) To be honest I'd rather see a horse happy in work of whatever sort than left as a bored paddock ornament, but I don't think that you need to compete at high levels to keep the majority of talented horses happy. If I owned a horse that was obviously unhappy not doing enough then I would sell on to a home more suited. All totally irrelevant of course as I'm highly unlikey to have a future Olympian on my hands! :D

There are plenty of horses who enjoy a days hunting, endurance, low level eventing, dressage etc without having to reach the top to be happy and as for soundness then if the preparation is done correctly I don't think there'd be any issues tbh, in fact high level competing is more like to produce injuries I would have thought. I know someone who had an ex olympic eventer who was totally happy in his new leisure home just pootling about.

There are also top competition horses that are able to retire to stud or simply retire with just the odd day out or be turned away for periods of time and they seem to cope okay; the less fit they are the less they need to do to be physically 'tired'.

As with so many things horse related, lots of it depends on the indiviual horse, if a horse however talented has the right temperament, then chances are he will be happy enough without having to compete. A horse that is super talented but extremely quirky and needing lots of stimulation is unlikely to end up being owned by the average happy hacker (I would hope!)

eta - apologies for the missed letters - my keyboard's sticky.
 
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