Why own a Warmblood when you could have an Iberian?

First thing I would like to say its that there are plenty of PRE horses well over 16 hands...traditional and modern type.

About prices in the UK for an imported horse, if you import a youngster, you would pay for it around 5-6k, for a 3-4yo with good bloodlines and morphology.
Then ship it over, using a proper transporter is around £800... Is it expensive compared to a quality WB?
 
DuchessKizzy said:
Good point that very few Iberian horses are seen in eventing and disciplines other than dressage, however could this be simply down to the fact that few people have heard of Lusitanos or Andalusians?
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Errm... I'm not too sure that's true...

DuchessKizzy said:
There is nothing wrong with owning a horse you don't ride, just don't keep it because you are scared of it or because it is the wrong horse for you. It seems to happen too often.
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Ah, that'll be me then... Rising 5 TB that's totally unsuitable for what I want to ride... So should I just discard him / sell him on with no concerns of his future / serve him up for dinner / leave him out for the bin men?

DuchessKizzy said:
I have enough experience to know that when we first got our Iberian people couldn't understand why we'd bought a 'circus horse'.
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So I speak from my own experience of people looking down on Iberian horses, I'm simply trying to understand what people have against them and trying to show people what they are missing.
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You know some strange sounding people DK... That's a horrible attitude to take over someone's choice...:( I don't know that many (any?) in this thread have 'looked down on Iberians'...

My TB needed a mum and my young (and previously disdainfully ignorant to all viewers) QH 'chose' me when I popped to have a look at a friend's stallion...:D They are perfectly 'right' for me even if for completely different reasons than most people have when buying a horse...
 
swinghorse i love your photos, especially the little man riding he look a great rider.

my tres sangres stallion's father is 16.2.hh and he was many times national champion for breeding and movement, the size is in the breed if you want it.
 
cptrayes said:
I don't doubt the use of Iberians in warmbloods Tallyho, but the modern warmblood started from cart horses (cold bloods - then crossed with hot bloods to make warmbloods) and has influences from every other breed under the sun, even ponies now. You really can't put down good looks in every warmblood as coming from Iberian's you know :D

My Jazz would be offended, he's proud of his carthorse roots :D Are you old enough to remember some of the earliest warmblood imports to the UK? Stonking great creatures with legs like treetrunks and heads you had to have a made to measure bridle for, that would have looked really good between the shafts :)

I understand you being partial, when I'm too old to ride 17 handers my plan is to go down to either a Welsh section D or an Iberian - spot the similarity there, eh ;)
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I made a sweeping generalisation but I don't believe I'm completely wrong... those natives still exist and some may be crossed with other breeds but the older breeds of WB can trace ancestry right back to spanish lines. Lots of warmbloods do openly have Iberians in thier bloodlines. Even the TB has some spanish influence. Iberians are carriagehorses too. Welsh ponies had some infusion of the spanish and arab, so did the connie :)
 
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Every horse is different, even though individual breeds have within them similarities and types. There are lots of different WB studbooks, with different origins, some of them will have iberian blood, others will not - whoever said Tbs didnt exist at the time is wrong (or at least not completely right) - many of the WB studbooks are more modern than the TB and used TBs with native type mares as at least some of their foundation stock. You get Belgian WB and Selle Francais that do dressage but those studbooks have tended to produce jumping horses, the Danish focussed on dressage initially and now also have some specific jumping lines. Times change too, the predominant type of Hanoverian even 30 years ago looked a bit different to the current ones which have had some more hot blood introduced and are not so huge. The Iberian studbooks have woken up to this with the increasing production of more modern types rather than small horses who cannot produce an extended trot which was rather the stereotypical typology of a few years ago.
I think it is a complete overgeneralisation to say Iberians are all wonderful, intelligent, sensitive etc as they vary! The same for WBs. Mum has an Iberian and its by miles the worst horse we have owned as a family - sweet in the stable but horrible to ride, lazy, unwilling and bad attitude, psychotic to hack too. But I know a lady who has one thats been out at Inter 1 and PSG in the last few months and done really well, and it is a fantastic horse. That said I do think a lot of the not very good ones get sold to middle aged ladies in the UK for inflated prices by portuguese guys who sweet talk them and make them think they are buying something amazing (I am half portuguese and I have seen it in action !!)

PS JFTD I love the pics of your guy in the snow !
 
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I would absolutely buy an Iberian over a warmblood any day, but then I'd never buy another warmblood full stop. I dislike them, find the vast majority of them nutty in the head. Much prefer my Lusitano x TB which IMO is a fantastic mix for an eventer or showjumper. He has the Iberian temperament of being extremely willing and is very agile with it. My only issue with him is that he has the Iberian higher-than-normal front leg action which I dont think many dressage judges like. They prefer floaty WB paces. It doesnt matter that they are generally better to collect than extend, for SJ and XC they can still make the distances and because they can shorten so well, they can help you out of some sticky situations!

I love Iberians as a breed, even though I've only got a part bred. The only thing holding me back getting a pure bred sometime is that they're more difficult as real allrounders - some dressage judges dont like their paces (as above) and you can't easily show an Iberian as they're not suited to your usual WH or ridden classes which again prefer your more floaty brown jobs! Down south I believe they have Iberian classes but I've never seen any up this way. I like to have a horse that can do a bit of everything.

At the end of the day, I think they generally make super jumping horses, its just a shame people assume all they can do is dressage so very few are allowed to prove themselves jumping. I believe the other reason is that there are still quite few around in the UK, most pure breds are still very expensive I guess because they're still seen as a bit "novel".

This is my boy (pictured here jumping CIC* BE last summer & 1.20m BSJA):-

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MagicMelon said:
I would absolutely buy an Iberian over a warmblood any day, but then I'd never buy another warmblood full stop. I dislike them, find the vast majority of them nutty in the head. Much prefer my Lusitano x TB which IMO is a fantastic mix for an eventer or showjumper.
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But your horse is a warmblood! The whole point of warmbloods is they are crosses which are supposed to take the best bits from different breeds; although they have breed societies they are more a type than a breed! Some 'warmbloods' are pure tb, some are arabxtb, and yours is an Iberian Warmblood! We had a gorgeous Iberian Warmblood - who competed at international level sj and was schooled GP dressage - there are videos somewhere of him being ridden by the great Nuno Oliveira :D

Obviously you are free to choose whatever horse suits you best, but the generalising about warmbloods in this thread (not just your post) is fairly ridiculous!
 
magic melon what super photos!

i beg to differ with rhino when they say your horse is a warmblood it is in fact a hotblood as andy's and thoroughbreds are hotblood, and i breed tres sangres, andy cross andy-arab for that very reason, i only want complete hotblood horses.

i think people can be under the impression that andy's can be lazy etc, but it can be the way they ridden, i feel they need a certain way of training and can really improve your riding for the better, i know my stallion was not a big mover when he was young but he is now completely changed as he has matured, its in there you have to get the training right, and ride it in an iberian style;
 
rhino said:
But your horse is a warmblood! The whole point of warmbloods is they are crosses which are supposed to take the best bits from different breeds; although they have breed societies they are more a type than a breed! Some 'warmbloods' are pure tb, some are arabxtb, and yours is an Iberian Warmblood! We had a gorgeous Iberian Warmblood - who competed at international level sj and was schooled GP dressage - there are videos somewhere of him being ridden by the great Nuno Oliveira :D

Obviously you are free to choose whatever horse suits you best, but the generalising about warmbloods in this thread (not just your post) is fairly ridiculous!
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Since when was a pure TB considered a warmblood?! A pure TB is a hotblood. I believe a warmblood is very roughly a mix between a hot blood breed such as a TB with something heavier (ie. a cold blood) hence their generally stockier build slightly than say a pure TB or arab. I have never ever heard of a pure TB or an anglo arab described as a warmblood...

tristar - I agree with you that mine for example is a hot blood as Luso's and TB's are both hot bloods.
 
MagicMelon said:
Since when was a pure TB considered a warmblood?! A pure TB is a hotblood. I believe a warmblood is very roughly a mix between a hot blood breed such as a TB with something heavier (ie. a cold blood) hence their generally stockier build slightly than say a pure TB or arab. I have never ever heard of a pure TB or an anglo arab described as a warmblood...
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There are plenty of thoroughbreds approved in warmblood studbooks - Coconut Grove was the first to come into my mind but there are more. You can call yours a lusitano x tb or an Iberian warmblood, it's just different terms.

A lot of the open studbooks will approve any horse which conforms to their standards - a huge amount of SF horses have purely arab and tb breeding, and Traks are high %age tb too. Mine is 3/4 tb and 1/8 arab but still a warmblood :)

The 'original' warmbloods were generally tb x 'draft' types, but things have changed a bit in the last 60 years or so.
 
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There has been some generalising about warmbloods as it is rather a general type of horse bred for performance. Perform very well they do too in what we consider to be performing I.e. BE and high level dressage. They were bred for purpose. To impress what the judges of today want to approve. I think it's marvellous and would have one if I pursued the dizzy heights.

The classical Iberian horse is not in vogue in the arenas of today. Everyone wants a Totilas. It could change. I find it strange in competition that Extension is more important than collection, yet rolkur is used to get it on horses that can't do it. Why not just get one that can naturally collect rather than force its neck into its chest to make it look like a horse that does it naturally. Crackers.

Some people just want to ride a nice horse, and for them, the Iberian is a good choice..... Or an Irish, or cob..... :D
 
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tallyho! said:
The classical Iberian horse is not in vogue in the arenas of today. Everyone wants a Totilas. It could change. I find it strange in competition that Extension is more important than collection, yet rolkur is used to get it on horses that can't do it. Why not just get one that can naturally collect rather than force its neck into its chest to make it look like a horse that does it naturally. Crackers.
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Agreed.

I wouldn't have a Totilas if I was offered one and the money to keep it in the lap of luxury forever, on a silver platter.

That working equitation PRE, though :eek: If I could ride it, I'd kill for it :D Personal preference of course.
 
tallyho! said:
Why on earth not?? all Pedro does is sit there and waves his arm about.... :confused: the horse does everything else...
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:D Yes, that's all he does :D I have a feeling that my seat aids would be so off-whack that the poor pony would be flying changing every stride but never ending up on the right leg for the turn :cool:
 
JFTD said:
:D Yes, that's all he does :D I have a feeling that my seat aids would be so off-whack that the poor pony would be flying changing every stride but never ending up on the right leg for the turn :cool:
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:D:D:D... Nah, they come from Portugal with instructions. Easy :)
 
Swing Horse & Sirena - love the pix of your lovely Iberians. I have a 9 year old pure bred 15hh Iberian I imported 3 years ago, who loves to jump & will be show jumping & doing workers this year. He can collect and extend in all paces, usually gets 8s or 9s for his free walk, is working at elementary/medium at home - he finds canter half pass, canter travers, flying changes, rein back to canter, canter to halt quite easy, is working towards canter pirouettes, & has done a little piaffe and passage in hand. He's rarely unplaced in ridden showing classes, even at championship shows - not only Iberian & foreign breed classes but some conventional riding & equitation classes too. He loves doing fun long distance rides, is as fresh at the end of 20 miles as he was at the beginning and still as eager for a flat out gallop. I'm also hoping to have a go at working equitation. He's a fun all rounder and hopefully, one day, I will live the dream by riding piaffe & passage on him. He's not unusual for his breed - I know many others who are equally, if not more talented.
 
why own anything other than a native?? dressage pony champion of spain 2007 or 2008, welsh section c;) 6 times winner before that? his son:p
that is all i have to say about that:D
 
Not many people can ride an iberian :) They are really quick thinking and keep you on your toes and give the sharpest warmbloods a run for their money in their quick thinking
 
cptrayes said:
Are you old enough to remember some of the earliest warmblood imports to the UK? Stonking great creatures with legs like treetrunks and heads you had to have a made to measure bridle for, that would have looked really good between the shafts???
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I've got one in that mould, he's a 20 year-old KWPN, but he's on the driving horse register, making him a Tuigpaard. No one believes he's a Dutch Warmblood ;) he has lots of Gelderlander and Hackney blood

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He has a superb trot when he gets going, a huge head, tree-trunk legs and dinner-plate feet. I definitely wouldn't swap him for an Iberian, pretty as they are!
 
Calvo said:
Not many people can ride an iberian :) They are really quick thinking and keep you on your toes and give the sharpest warmbloods a run for their money in their quick thinking
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Sweeping! :)

Sounds just like arabians then ;)
Thousands of people manage those quite happily, how are they so different? Other than the obvious physical traits that is, I ride Pasos and Iberians look like bigger versions of these (without the comfortable gaiting, which I love) which they would considering the Barb and Andalucian lineage of the PF.

I've never ridden a warmblood, as in one of those socking great big dressagey numbers, I couldn't ride one side of them, necks are too long, legs are too long and there is just too much of them altogether for me.

I can't remember having ridden an Iberian either, but if they are as much fun as an arab then bring it on:D
 
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I love Iberians and have wanted one for years. I eventually bought this one last August:
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He's just turned one and is an absolute darling. He's quick to learn and really bright. He moves beautifully and I can't wait to get him under saddle.
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Warmbloods just don't do it for me, neither do TB's for that matter. There's just something about hotbloods and the PRE in particular that gets my heart pumping.

I appreciate that they aren't for everybody, but there's just no way you can't say they don't have presence and the wow factor.

As for them only being imported, there are breeders here in the uk (mine came from one of them), who I think sell at a fair price considering the breeding, and I can't believe warmbloods are that different in that respect.
 
Sorry about bringing back an old subject, but thought I'd just state my opinion :)
I went looking for a horse that would be able to do a bit of jumping, bit of cross country and a bit of dressage, and we ended up trying out some Andalusians. 2 of 3 we tried did not feel like the kind that would be anything special at jumping. The last one we tried I could tell would be a jumper, even though she had never jumped before, and we got her.
I've had her for just over a year now, she is jumping up to 1m15 at home with scope to go higher and jumps 90cm courses with ease. She is in no way a dressage horse however, which just goes to show that not all Andy's are dressage horses :p Going to start xc with her soon, but I can tell that she's probably going to be a speed demon (with no brakes!). Although I would have either a warmblood or an Iberian I can safely say that my Iberian is not the stereotypical Andalusian and she beats many warmbloods in showjumping with twice as much experience as her :)
 
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