Why the hell do people breed foals from sub standard mares?

Flicker said:
Not sure what the solution is, but I know where you're coming from. When my (already quirky, spooky and not particularly talented) mare was diagnosed with bone spavin, the stock answer I got from a lot of people was 'oh well, why don't you turn her away and breed from her?'
Um, let's think - because I don't particularly want to bring another quirky, spooky, not particularly talented and potentially genetically defective horse into the world thanks.
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And I bet they looked at you totally shocked, well said. wish more people had your common sense.
 
Kao said:
FINALLY!
Someone with the same pet peeve as me :)

I don't have a problem with breeding from mares who's lines are unknown. Conformation, temperament and presence/movement are the most important things. Not having recognized bloodlines but having a good competition record opens up a doorway for new blood.
I want to breed sport ponies professionally when I'm older and more experienced, (on top of everything else I want to do :rolleyes:) and I'll always look at the main and important points before even considering breeding, stallion or mare.

This is the kind of time I praise people for gelding their horses. Shame they can't get their mares spade too.
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Whoa Kao :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Where have you been??

I see you have rejoined:)

Nice to see you again:p
 
jsr said:
For the same reason there are thousands of dogs being bred while others are dying everyday in the pounds. GREED.
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Hmmm, but some breeds of dogs are so genetically defected by all the inbreeding that goes on behind close doors, that the 'mongrels' are a much safer, cheaper bet.

whoops, sorry I have very strong opinions about dog breeds.... :p
 
When Kai was diagnosed with arthritis at 6 and we weren't sure how much work she would be up to. Bearing in mind that arthritis was partly due the the conformation of her hind legs, my horse vet suggested breeding from her!!
 
bay_beasty said:
Hmmm, but some breeds of dogs are so genetically defected by all the inbreeding that goes on behind close doors, that the 'mongrels' are a much safer, cheaper bet.

whoops, sorry I have very strong opinions about dog breeds.... :p
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Indeedy. Why limit yourself to merely one set of genetic defects when you can combine two, call the pups a cuteseywutesy name then charge the buyers more than they'd pay for a well bred, fully health tested pedigree...?:p

As for people bunging any mare in foal... well, grrrrrr:mad:
 
Spudlet said:
Indeedy. Why limit yourself to merely one set of genetic defects when you can combine two, call the pups a cuteseywutesy name then charge the buyers more than they'd pay for a well bred, fully health tested pedigree...?:p
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Yes sorry, I totally forgot about the fact that the kennel club started from a Eugenics movement, and encourages, to keep the breed pure, to inbreed, and condone genetic defects like the rodigians 'ridged back' which is actually a form or Spina bifida, I could name many more. I am not taking about breeding to inbred dogs with each other, I am saying that buying a heinz 57 and then breeding from it, because they have a lovely attitude and a good nature is perfectly ok, and they wont have all the gentic defects that come along with many many breeds of dog. I am not saying all dogs that are a breed are genetically defected but many of the showing dogs are. Sorry, its something I am really strongly against.
 
I remember doing the same post a few years back (when FC wasnt yet born!) and I had my introduction to HandH's member from Wisconsin. I was shocked at her complete stupidity when she posted that 'looking out of the kitchen window and seeing a pretty little foal playing in the field-even out of ones crap, unsound mare....!!!!' That ended any respect I might have had for said person.
People breed from sub standard mares for many reasons-greed, stupidity, arogance. greed, stupidity...etc. There is no excuse.
 
And the other problem is that most people are not conformation experts so cant always see a fault in their darling mare.

Sorry, but this is such a pet hate of mine, breeding from your darling mare because she is the bestest horse in the whole wide world.

Really?

the world is overstocked with horses as it is. Lets not add to the problem.

And the other side to it.

They breed, get a colt and their mates tell them he is the bestest colt in the whole wide world, keep him as a stallion!!!!!

AAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
 
LHS said:
I suppose another problem is no-one sees their own mare as substandard.
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I can think of two examples where the mare wasn't fit for the work expected and the person has put her into foal. The first was a temperament issue - very nervy and too dangerous to ride as a result and the second a TBx who was crippled with arthritis by the age of 9, so was put into foal to produce an endurance prospect. I don't get why such idiots who SEE their mare is substandard, but somehow think it'll all disappear from the foal.

My mare was due to be bred from, as a 'good example of the breed' and because she's rare blood lines. She's got APPALLING conformation in front - I can just about fit my hand between her front legs, they're so close together. Rare lines or not, she will not be bred from!!
 
Fransurrey said:
I can think of two examples where the mare wasn't fit for the work expected and the person has put her into foal. The first was a temperament issue - very nervy and too dangerous to ride as a result and the second a TBx who was crippled with arthritis by the age of 9, so was put into foal to produce an endurance prospect. I don't get why such idiots who SEE their mare is substandard, but somehow think it'll all disappear from the foal.

My mare was due to be bred from, as a 'good example of the breed' and because she's rare blood lines. She's got APPALLING conformation in front - I can just about fit my hand between her front legs, they're so close together. Rare lines or not, she will not be bred from!!
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I agree with everything said but you all forgot one fantastic reason to breed from a crap mare. "Well, I'm pregnant and I can't ride, so she might as well be pregnant too, it will give her something to do." Priceless!! :D I have had two people say that to me, both of them 'experts' who never get on their own horses and rarely visit the poor beasts.
 
I'm wholly FOR the licensing. My opinions are that we need licences for all dangerous activities. If it costs other people money they do not want to spend and possibly lives, then you must acquire a licence to do it. e.g. guns, selling alcohol, breeding horses, dogs, cats... all should be licensed. You should have to prove you can a. afford it b. care for it c. give it a good life without relying on other people to do so. Very unchristian of me but somethings got to give. Perhaps we should extend this to having children... ;)
 
Lady La La said:
Similarly, I would like to breed for my mare again. I didn't breed from her intentionally in the first place, she came to me pregnant & I had no clue.
She bred a rather wonderful little foal, who is now in a home for life with a family friend. If she was going to make anywhere near big enough/chunky enough for me, I would have kept her & to give her away was heartbreaking.
I'd like to be able to do it all again, but on my terms... and the end result being something that I can keep for myself.

If the world only bred top & talented competition horses - What would people like me ride? I like my nice safe cob & would rather not break my neck on a dizzy WB...

I understand conformation/healh/temprement issues etc and I do not in anyway condone breeding s*** but there are people out there who would like offspring from their much loved family pets, who are able to give these horses security.
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yeah exactly. I have issues with people breeding just for the sake of it - but for me i plan to get a good stallion to compliment the mare - and im willing to pay a lot o fmoney for a stud.

If i ever had to sell, i wouldnt.... id give it away. I know several people who i would trust enough to have him/her. so always have the backup. (or loan!) :)
 
What a cracking thread and I totally agree with a lot of the things already said on here.
We bred a foal from our mare this year but we took 18 months to find the right stallion for her. She has no genetic or hereditary conditions and very good bloodlines which we can trace back to 1678!!
We looked at her with very critcial eyes and also got other people to do the same. We then took this information and slowly trawled through hundreds of stallions to find one that would (hopefully) better her not so good points. We came up with a short list and then went to see these stallions. We wanted to see them in the flesh so to speak and to see how they moved etc.
To date it has cost me a small fortune in stud fees and all the other bits people forget about. It would have been cheaper to buy a youngster.
However I don't regret it one bit and the foal we have is an absolute stunner. Everyone who sees him raves over him and we have been asked numerous times to sell him. That was never our intention. He is an eventual replacement for my daughters dressage pony and she hopes to achieve great things with him.

I wish everyone would do their homework before breeding and not just picked the nearest stallion, or the one that they like the best.
 
I wish that speying mares was as routine as gelding colts. It would do the general horse gene pool a massive favour!

If you have a mare that you're thinking of breeding from, the first question should be:
"if this was a gelding, would I be disappointed that I couldn't breed from it?"

If the answer is no, then she should never see a stallion!
 
In that respect I've been very lucky with my vet(s). I have a mare with absolutely spot perfect conformation, no breeding recorded but we're told she's a Trakhener(sp?) x Connie. She's 20 now, I still think she's had a foal in the past, and that mare is definitely a horse I would breed from. Heck, I'd even invest in the embryo transplant especially! (I'm quite anti-AI, for the simple fact that all 3, substandard, crappy mares I know of -but oh, 2 evented upto 3* so they MUST be good :rolleyes: - didn't take. But I wouldn't right it off completely of course)

Beside the point, after thought (yes, this thread got me thinking), I think it's just as unfair to breed from an aged maiden mare than one with insanely gross conformation :confused: It just crossed my mind.

On the other hand, when our ride was off with an injury I think I found the remark my mother made was amusing :D
"Are you any better yet?"
"No I still feel a bit off"
"Oh, we should just turn you away and let you have a foal!" :D
 
I think a lot of peple put their old pony mare or some other mare to a fantastic competition stallion or whatever expecting a replica of the sire regardless of what the mare is!

A man near me has a field full of ponies/horses which he breeds every year and hardly ever goes to look at them. many have awful conformation ( they range from 12hh-15hh ) he has just bought cheap tb colt and put it in field with them to breed......so now he has substandard mares and colt, btw last time he took 2 to the sales, the auctioneer couldn't even get £25 for them as apair!

Another woman nr me started with one clydesdale mare and bred and bred from it and its youngstock and some were pretty decent but not world beaters by any means and she couldn't sell em as she wanted like 7k for them as three year olds but totally untouched in frankly emaciated condition but she keeps breeding and many suspect in breeding, feet are bad, unwormed, unbrokem, unpassported, can't reg them as she either in breeds to her own colts and has no cvering certificates coz she never pays covering fees!makes me so angry!!!!:mad:
 
ps as rhere are so many people breeding why don't more people buy a youngster,

that mite be hypocritical coos have tried t breed from my mare who is confo perfect btw and sucesful sj bt I would only breed to keep as have stables etc
 
What is sub-standard to one man is standard to another, mares that don't have great conformation themselves but are very nicely bred may throw fantastic foals, particularly when a stallion has been chosen wih strong points to compensate for her weak ones. Breeding a sub-standard mare with an exceptional stallion should produce a standard foal.. 2 fantastic horses can produce a sub-standard foal, breeding is a gamble..

Its a bit of a loaded question really...
 
I don't think the people you are all talking about with 'the one bestest mare in the world' are the problem. It's people breeding from 10 mares every year because they have their own stallion that are the problem.

We own a livery yard with 45 liveried horses. In 10 years we have had one person who requested facilities to keep and foal their mare. We are surrounded by approximately another 4 large yards - I don't see any mares and foals in their fields either. Livery yards generally do not have facilities for mare and foal keep.

There is, however a very dubious dealer about 3 miles up the road who breeds between 10-20 rubbish foals every year.

With regard to the 'substandard' mare issue I have a 'substandard' mare with a foal at foot. She is of unknown breeding, imported from Ireland as a 4 year old with no papers. She is slightly tied in below the knee, has a bit of a crappy arse end and straight but very unimpressive movement. She has never set the world alight competitively but was a useful riding club horse and an OK working hunter.

I even bred from her because she became unlevel behind at 15 so I have committed all of the cardinal sins!! On the other hand - I like my mare, I have no illusions that she's the 'bestest in the world' but I did choose a stallion that stamps his stock, doesn't share her minor conformation defects and is a fabulous mover.

I don't want the next Olympic showjumper/eventer/dressage horse as I have neither the time nor talent to do it justice - let alone the purse strings to buy it. Nor, I would imagine do 99.9% of the people reading this. I just want a nice little horse that will compete at a lower level, hunt, have fun and just be a nice sane friend!

I have my own place, facilities to keep a mare and foal and can afford to do it.I look forward to seeing my foal grow into a horse, I was there at her birth andf hope to keep her until the end. So shoot me!!!!
 
indiat said:
I agree with everything said but you all forgot one fantastic reason to breed from a crap mare. "Well, I'm pregnant and I can't ride, so she might as well be pregnant too, it will give her something to do." Priceless!! :D I have had two people say that to me, both of them 'experts' who never get on their own horses and rarely visit the poor beasts.
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Bloody hell, that's seriously worrying...!
 
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