WHY? Travel horses in trailer with front door open?

FAO Custardsmum:
My mum tows our trailer, and she must have been driving for 25years- towing for 20 of those.
I would think driving for this long her clutch control is just about spot on, so I'll tell you what, how about you come up to my house and see whether you can tow our trailer, doors shut, and keep my boy stood up right, because I shall tell you now, my boy's travel problems are fcuk all to do with my mum's driving, given that he is scrambling before the vehicle sets off when the doors are closed.
Kitsune- Yes, it has to be removed just like the door when unloading, it is a heavy duty mesh we use down on the farm and very tough.
 
I see - I can visualise it now (don't ask what i was thinking before lol)

Surely the individual knows their horse and as such are the best to comment on how best to travel their horse? I'd rather take my chances on the legality and like Rosiie, improvise, than have my horse end up like a scrambled egg..
 
Different people do things in different ways.. unless we are talking about straightforward cruelty cases, then can't we just live and let live.....

I had a mare who used to fall over in trailers - I never did find anything to make her stand up, but tried all sorts, including leaving her loose in the box while we travelled very very slowly, so we could try to work out where she would prefer to stand, travelling without a partition etc etc all to no avail. She travelled perfectly side on in a wagon - no problems, but trailers were a no no. Rosiie Pimms - Cassie would start scrabbling as soon as she had walked (very calmly I may add) into the trailer - without any movement of the box. She just seemed to associate the box with not being able to stand up anymore and so didn't.

If leaving the top quarter door open stops him panicking then do it. If the issue people have is objects coming into the box and hitting the horse, I really can't see it being a problem if the horse is tied and secured with the breast bar into the stall furthest away from the open door, thus reducing the risk that way. It's not really 'the dog with its head out of the open car window' scenario we are talking about here people! To put it into perspective, people ride quads and scooters without goggles at relatively low speeds ...who do you think are more at risk? Personally, I see people drive trailers (with closed doors) at speeds that I think are way too fast and think that their horses are at far more risk, but who am I to say? I guess they know their horse and how it travels...or of course perhaps they don't care or are ignorant.

The filly we have at present was travelled occasionally this summer as described above, and given the temperature on the days that we travelled (v hot) was, arguably, more comfortable with the increased airflow in the trailer. She certainly seemed very happy, calm and interested. I have also known breeders recommend that youngstock, who have not been tied or loaded into stalls before, to be travelled completely loose in closed trailers, with good results. Different solutions, for different scenarios don't you think? People are so quick to criticise others in the horse world.
 
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If leaving the top quarter door open stops him panicking then do it. If the issue people have is objects coming into the box and hitting the horse, I really can't see it being a problem if the horse is tied and secured with the breast bar into the stall furthest away from the open door, thus reducing the risk that way. It's not really 'the dog with its head out of the open car window' scenario we are talking about here people!

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erm, unfortunately dog with head out car window (which equally drives me mad) is exactly what you do see with horses and that front top door being left open. it is not that uncommon to see it. most trailers are right hand side unloading and as you have to travel a single horse on the right it means it is travelling right next to that open door and i have unfortunately seen many a horse actually sticking it's head out of the door unwittingly waiting for who knows what to fly into its eyes.

fair enough if your horse has a real problem with it shut but at least buy a trailer with the door on the opposite side or cover with heavy duty mesh as Rosie who posted earlier does. Have to say I've never seen anyone with that gap covered by anything or anyone using a fly mask etc, just open doors and wind-whipped horses.
 
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If the issue people have is objects coming into the box and hitting the horse, I really can't see it being a problem if the horse is tied and secured with the breast bar into the stall furthest away from the open door, thus reducing the risk that way.

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Without creating a mesh you are being COMPLETELY irresponsible. The issue is the other traffic throwing stones up and it blinding your horse! You can go as slow as you like, but if a stone can still crack a windscreen what do you think it will do to your horse?

As posted on here previously your insurance won't cover treatment for your horse being blinded when travelling in this manner as the owner is deemed to be negligent.
 
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FAO Custardsmum:My mum tows our trailer, and she must have been driving for 25years- towing for 20 of those.

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So what is/are the root of his travelling issues then can you be specific? I'm sure your Mum is a very competent driver but unless she's had further training since she passed her test then there will be areas for improvement as with the vast majority of us. Trouble is people take a driving test and think 'that's it, I can drive' but driving is like any other skill, it needs brushing up from time to time and people get all sensitive about it, unecessarily so.
 
Why do you have to travel a single horse on the right? My trailer is left hand unloading, and I travel on the right so that I have plenty of room to get he/she out when the front ramp is down. I would do the opposite if I had a right side front ramp. The only reason I could think (unless I'm missing a legal issue here) is to aid with particularly adverse cambers, but then pity the poor horse who is on the left when carrying two.

I have been travelling horses and attending shows for 20 odd years and I can't say I have seen more than one or two horses in all that time (actually having to wrack brain to think of an example) with their heads actually outside the box when travelling - maybe I'm just lucky. Perhaps its more common in other areas, but surely its something that very few people would do - the ones you see are likely to be habitual? As long heads are inside the box I don't see a huge problem, particularly as most modern boxes are not flat fronted and the pointed front helps direct air flow away (will actually draw air out of the box in terms of aerodynamics, though perhaps we had better not go there as I might be forgetting some of my physics!).

Any thought on boxes in the States and Australia where horses are /were regularly travelled on open topped floats or very wide side slatted roofed trailers? Usually they seem to be travelled facing the rear so I guess that helps with grit in the eye scenario, but certainly they seemed to be commonly in use so you would expect the welfare issues to be minimal.

Have to say, I wouldn't be leaving the door open at the mo' because of the cold, but I'm not particularly militant about it, and haven't had or heard of an accident with it, so I'm not particularly coloured by the issue. I can understand those who have, being very definitive about what they do.
 
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Why do you have to travel a single horse on the right?


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It's to offset the natural camber of the road. If you travel two you should always put the heavier horse on the right, if your ramp is on the left you should definitley stick with this since the ramp side is naturally a little heavier anyway.
 
You are right CotswoldSJ - I am COMPLETELY irresponsible. I think that is plain from the way I write and obviously don't think things through (see below for my non-thoughts at the time). And the way I go riding out on roads putting my horse at risk where there is TRAFFIC around that can squash my horse at any point in time. And the way I jump over fences when I can FALL off and break my neck or the horse could trip up and do the same. Or when I go for a gallop in the middle of summer and a fly could go in my horses eye. Or again, when I gallop with friends around me and their horse kicks a stone in said eye once again. That is irresponsibility for you.

i know I'm being childish and petty with these examples, but there I was just having a nice chat about all of this, then someone comes along, uses CAPITAL letters and gets me all het up! Please stop being so judgemental!

There is inherent risk in everything we do with horses, everything is a balancing of risk. As I said, I don't travel my horse with the top door open habitually - I have done it on a few occasions when the weather was particularly hot and I thought that on balance the increased airflow might make her more comfortable - in travelling her on the right side away from the top door of a left hand unload trailer and staying in the left hand lane when driving, that essentially meant that another vehicle could not throw up a stone inside the box. Do you see my point or can you only think in black and white? If you have had a bad experience in this scenario, then fair enough.

I entered this discussion simply to talk about a balance - that between people who asked why on earth someone would do this and those who had genuine reasons why. For people to be judged harshly by others who have had different experiences is just too common and it makes people upset. For example Rosiie is doing something that she feels is the best for her horse - can't people just live with that rather than pillioring her and her Mum's driving! Maybe thats too much to ask. Or maybe its late at night and I'm just expecting too much.
 
I'm not having a go at people who put something up instead of the door, that is very sensible. I still cannot understand why people travel with door open and nothing in its place. If horse cant reach to put its head out of window, why have it open, if it can put head out of window then I have to stress that this is very dangerous for the horse let alone his eyesight from the wind, flying debris etc!! If it is a balance issue then surely moving/removing the partition might be the safer answer.
I have had/seen/been involved with a lot of horses that wont/cant load and would still never leave door open deliberately, it is a recipe for disaster as far as I am concerned.
My vet is horrifed at this, I have spoken to a police officer friend who is going to look into the legal side a little more and I suggest that everyone checks their insrance caefully!
This seems to have become a little heated and was not meant to be, I asked what I considered a civilised question, WHY and have been attacked for asking it!
 
i put a post up aout this a few months ago...

about a horse that unfortunately lost its eye due to the top door being open, because a stone flicked up and through the open door.

insurance wouldnt pay out because the accident was, ITO, rightly avoidable.

IMO, it is totally irresponsible to travel with the top door open...200 yds or 200 miles.."accidents" can, and do, happen
 
Have rung my insurance company and if I left the door open on my trailer my insurance is not valild. It is also not valid if I replaced it with something else unless the trailer manufacturer has approved the changes!
The trailer is not designed to be moving with the door open under any circumstances and therefore you are not using the trailer as designed and in a safe way.

I have posted this for information only, it may be wise to check your individual policies for clarification.

You may also want to remember that 12 points and you lose your licence!
 
I'm all for peace and intelligent debate...I just didn't like being shouted at by CotswoldSJ and being called completely irresponsible (which is relatively imflamatory to most people, hence the slight heat from me!)

My view is that people take personal responsibility for their decisions and just, perhaps, don't need to be berated for it, as in the grand scheme of things to do with horses, we are talking about something that is relatively low risk overall, compared to other things we do on a more regular basis ( I should say here that this is, of course, only my opinion!). That the majority of people (including myself) usually shut their top door is sensible, I'm not disputing that, but what is horrifying to one is not always to another.

Did anyone pick up my comment about the open topped trailers used in other countries - it would be interesting to see what people think of them? Personally, I wouldn't massively fancy them, but lots of you folk would absolutely apoplectic about them I would think!

I'm certainly not attacking you haslemere horses, you raised an interesting point that some people seem to have very strong opinions on...I just got riled at the shouting and as usual, people not knowing or being able to know the whole stroy behind people's decisions and still making relatively accusatory statements. I think on whole its just a 'forum thing' that happens when people aren't face to face, so maybe I should chill out
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I'm all for peace and intelligent debate...I just didn't like being shouted at by CotswoldSJ and being called completely irresponsible (which is relatively imflamatory to most people, hence the slight heat from me!)

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I wasn't specifically aiming my comment at anyone, but I stand by it. If insurers think you are negligent by travelling your animal in this manner, shouldn't that be ringing alarm bells? I would have thought the responsible owner would think about projectiles and protecting their horse!

As for open trailers in other countries - its irrelevant as the laws are not the same. PF posted one with a horse on a pick up with chicken wire keeping it in. I would not travel an animal in this manner, and just because people do, doesn't make it right!
 
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I'm all for peace and intelligent debate...I just didn't like being shouted at by CotswoldSJ and being called completely irresponsible (which is relatively imflamatory to most people, hence the slight heat from me!)

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I wasn't specifically aiming my comment at anyone, but I stand by it. If insurers think you are negligent by travelling your animal in this manner, shouldn't that be ringing alarm bells? I would have thought the responsible owner would think about projectiles and protecting their horse!



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well said CSJ
 
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Have rung my insurance company and if I left the door open on my trailer my insurance is not valild. It is also not valid if I replaced it with something else unless the trailer manufacturer has approved the changes!
The trailer is not designed to be moving with the door open under any circumstances and therefore you are not using the trailer as designed and in a safe way.

I have posted this for information only, it may be wise to check your individual policies for clarification.

You may also want to remember that 12 points and you lose your licence!

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very good reply..one everyone who travels their horse/pony should read.


if "your" animal doesnt travel "safely" and legally in "your" trailer, then get a mode of transport that it will, thus protecting "yourself", horse and other road users from danger.
 
I know a horse who is travelled this way due to recommendation from Monty Roberts after having consistant problems loading. Whether it makes a difference I'm not sure, I will mention the insurance issue to his owner....
 
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As for open trailers in other countries - its irrelevant as the laws are not the same.

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Absolutely spot on. Just because it's allowed on the continent/USA doesn't make it safe, just as driving standards vary so do safety requirements.

Another point about doors on trailers, they are there to keep the 'load' inside and stop it getting spat out in the event of a collision thereby endangering anyone else. They also add strength to it's structure and support the fastenings that hold the ramp shut.

A couple of years back we did go to an incident where a horse had fallen out of an old lorry with a side ramp and the fastenings had given way. Luckily it had escaped with scrapes and cuts but thank God there was nothing coming the other way or a perfectly innocent road user could have been killed.

If the horses' balance is really an issue, it's quite possible to add a window to the front door as a friend of mine did, in fact some of the newer Ifor trailers come with it fitted anyway.

Don't misunderstand me I'm all for 'live and let live' but not when it could compromise someone elses' or the animals safety
 
I thought I'd read this thread as it's something I've worried about too as road debris could easily fly in and hit your horse which is why it's common to have small windows and larger windows which have bars.

One point I wanted to make though was that horses sometimes struggle to balance with the partition in. I have the IW 510 (large one) for my 16hh and he can't balance with the partition in. So, before you open the windows and risk an eye injury, try giving your horse a bit more space.

I have travelled in the back of the trailer with my horse (illegal, I know) to see what was going on when he kept falling over and although it's not the most luxurious form of travel, balance is more to do with space than having a bigger window to see out of. It's a bit like being in a wallowy boat and everything rattles!

BTW, a hug to the original poster because I think her comments were made in good heart and I would thank anyone for telling me I'd left something open/undone/etc.
 
Thank you persephone, I really wanted to know the reasons in case I had missed something important and was being irrational about the whole thing for no good reason! I am genuinly concerned about the welfare of the horse primarily in this case! I am glad that someone understands I am not 'just having a go'!

I implore all those who follow this practise to explore ALL other avenues before resorting to this, even if this means moving to a lorry instead of a trailer!
 
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