Why won't people listen..........little long......

M

mbequest

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We currently have for sale a very nice and highly talented young mare. 5yo, 16.11/2hh, holstein. She has a fantastic jump and is competing BSJA very succesfully due to always jumping double clear. She only started jumping aff in Feb '09.

So............... A lovely lady, very posh sounding, calls about her, as a possible eventer for her 14yo daughter. I say that the mare is a smasher but in my opinion not suitable for a 14yo. Still sometimes goes a little green in the ring and can really over jump a scary filler, would jump alot of people clean out the saddle. Lady says thank you and hangs up.

Then, she calls back at 2pm today to ask if they can come and see it this afternoon. Unfortunately mare has already been ridden and again, I wouldn't really be happy to sell to a 14yo girl. Ok, she says, can I come saturday......... no I'm teaching all day........... can I come sunday............. no I am at an important show on Monday and wouldn't want to take the chance of it going wrong and the mare getting scared the day before as her owner is travelling quite a way to come and see it jump...........oh, we'll come and see her and maybe try her after you've jumped in the ring..... See a pattern emerging??

Apart from being blatantly rude, This lady just wasn't getting the message. I don't care if they offered the full asking price, I wouldn't sell the mare to a 14yo. Any ideas on how I can resolve this without resorting to rudeness. It seems the more I say she can't have it the more she wants it. It's silly because we have much more suitable horses in for her to see........
 
ARGH, one of *those* You guys are all damned if you do and damned if you don't, very frustrating. I think you have been firm and communicated the facts well, sadly pushy parents who like to live through their children think they know best. If they want a wasted trip to see her jump then there is nothing you can do to stop them, but you can stop her getting on the horse. Is she not interested in what else you have for sale?
 
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Say she can come over, hide the mare round the back, say she's been sold, pull some of the others out..

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Oh V I like your style
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Crikey - thick skinned or what
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!

When she comes on the phone - have you offered her the 'more suitable' horses.

Is there a price in your advert, if there isn't you could always 'invent' an extremely large one to put her off.

Apart from that, am stumped, apart from hoping you find a perfect home for her quickly so you can tell the lady she is sold.

Fiona
 
Then I would be firm one more time and if she continues to hassle you then you are going to have to be blunt. Of course, this 14yo may be super talented and cope well, but I understand why you don't want an accident on your hands - as I said damned if you do (and she comes off) damned if you don't (you will be branded a difficult vendor).
 
tell her the truth, that however good a rider her daughter is (and of course, to PushyMum, her daughter would make Mary King look like a beginner!), your conscience absolutely would not let you sell this mare for a teenager to ride under any circumstances, but you have much more suitable horses she would be welcome to try.
 
I have just realised which horse you are talking about - I am legally old enough to be the girl's mother and pretty sticky in the saddle when jumping and I certainly reckon she could jump me out of the saddle and land on the moon! Phenomenally talented, no doubt, but no, not for a 14 year old. I suggest you send the mother the pic of her jumping huge over the tiny training fence
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You don't have to sell the horse to anyone unless you are really happy about the home.

So be firm next time she rings don't make an excuse as to why she can't see the horse but tell her that the horse is not going to be sold to a 14yr old rider. Thank you for phoning - goodbye.
 
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Weezy from the sound of it that type of picture would make them all the more keen!

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Actually G you are probably right! I didn't even consider her for me, even though she is the right colour and size as I knew I am not a good enough rider for her, she needs a good and proper nurture during these formative years as I reckon she will be an absolute superstar (and that is solely based on photos LOL!)
 
Id just let her try it - I was very wary when a 15yo came to try Gadget but she rode him brilliantly and got on with him great and i wouldnt say he is the easiest to ride - though we did know the girl and she had already bought a horse from Excell before !
 
Okay here we go my youngster that I brought from a dealer last year, the dealer had a similar problem to you, the horse was advertised as not a novice ride he had not been broken very long as he was a very late foal, he came over from Ireland in the March as a 4 year old, lets call dealer S and client B, B rang S about horse on horsemart, S explained not novice ride and B said she was not a novice had had horses for years and very competent. S asked what type of horses, B said cobs, S said IDX WB but a lot more WB than ID. After I think 5 or 6 phonecalls, S was worn down and let B come to ride horse, all was okay until she jumped horse who was happily jumping 1.10/1.15 with competent rider, B was a bit sloppy in canter but not too bad said S. B went to jump a small x pole and horse jumped over it very green and quite big, S said the next thing he knew horse and B were on the floor with the jump tangled up with them both, not quite sure what happened, but S spent next month with competent rider trying to build horses confidence up as horse would not let anyone get on him. Two months after this incident the horse was quite happy to be ridden so long as you got straight on from a mounting block and let him stand for a minute before moving off and rode confidently forward and kept reassuring him. Anyway I brought horse from S just after this and 8 months on he can still be a little nervous to get on but I always make sure I have someone to hold him and feed him a treat when I get on, wait a few seconds then move off. He is worse at home than at shows as obviously the incident happened at home. This is meant as a warning if your gut feeling is no then please stick to it. When I brought horse from S he had to let me have it at a price way below what he paid for it as apart from the cost of keeping horse every week he did not have the time to spend on one horse when he had a lot of others in yard up for sale, so I have ended up with a quality horse for not very much money because S did not go with his gut feelings about person who kep bugging him on the phone. If he had I wouldn't have such a good horse as I couldn't have afford what the horse was originally advertised at. Hope this helps. Remember like S you have a reputation to uphold of selling the right horses to the right person. Sorry its long but rant over.
 
If you are really certain this mare is not for teenagers then tell them straight- unfortunately making a list of excuses does not seem to have put her off and may not do your reputation any good. As staceyT says, there are many very competent teenagers out there and the girl might be ok but stick to your gut feeling.

I know a fair few competition dealers who have told people straight that they are not suitable for a horse - one even kicked a mother and daughter out of his yard for not listening to his advice and being rude! Wierdly enough they have gone on to recommend the yard to others so clearly didn't put them off!!

You can't get a bad name for being honest, many people will respect that and you can sleep easy at night knowing 'pushy mum' isn't goingn to come after you in the courts when daughter gets catapulted off!
 
I have to say, my new boy was advertised as "Powerhouse Jumping Machine, but not for the faint hearted. Not BSJA'd as job for the past two years masters horse, but now to big and bold for the job."

Mum rang the lady and said we're ringing about your horse, and E said "oh, is it for you?" at which point mum straight up said "You're going to think I'm mad but I want it for a 15yo girl to event."

E's immediate response was "Oh God, she's not just coming off ponies is she?". Luckily, I've been riding a 16.3 ID X TB since I was 11, so know what it's like to have to work with [not against] a big strong horse. We explained that to E, and emailed HER some pictures of ME [!] to show that I was telling the truth. We ended up with P, because we clicked.

I'm not saying this may be the case with your mare - from what I can gather you've not been told the girls experience, where as we were up front about mine so that E didn't worry about it. She admitted herself she was dubious, and I ended up going back for 3 days before signing the cheque - I think it was more to give her peace of mind than us.

I would agree there are a lot of talented junior jockeys out there - you just have to look at the 16yo pony eventers and junior riders. The fact that Pony GP's are 1.40m shows that they can have the experience over the larger fences [IMHO 1.40 to 14.2 is a bigger jump than 1.60m to 16.2 + ]. There are more and more opportunities for junior riders to compete on horses - the junior academy for example, and the children on horses teams. This shows that the BSJA are acknowledging that junior riders can be pretty damn good on horses. I think the rest of the BSJA riders need to keep up with that [I'm always made to feel uncomfortable as a junior rider at senior competitions, PLUS I'm an eventer too.]

Just my two penneth worth, I'm on the fence really. Like I said, my boy was "not a teenagers horse" but I'm aiming him CIC* this year...But I would also agree with you in the fact that you haven't been told anything about this girls experience.
 
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If you are really certain this mare is not for teenagers then tell them straight- unfortunately making a list of excuses does not seem to have put her off and may not do your reputation any good. As staceyT says, there are many very competent teenagers out there and the girl might be ok but stick to your gut feeling.

I know a fair few competition dealers who have told people straight that they are not suitable for a horse - one even kicked a mother and daughter out of his yard for not listening to his advice and being rude! Wierdly enough they have gone on to recommend the yard to others so clearly didn't put them off!!

You can't get a bad name for being honest, many people will respect that and you can sleep easy at night knowing 'pushy mum' isn't goingn to come after you in the courts when daughter gets catapulted off!

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must say i was lucky as we did know the girl and her ability - maybe ring them and say you would like to assess her on another horse before she rode this one - maybe a calmer type if she copes well and you are happy then all is fine if not dont let her ride it !
 
UPDATE:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Lady called again today, was not listening to what I was saying and got stroppy with me as I had never seen her daughter ride. She went on to explain that her daughter was very confidently jumping 2'9" hunter trials and her pony, bought from a riding school, can jump 1.40m but only 1.15m with the girl on.
I'm sorry to say that I got rather short with her, told her I didn't care what her pony could or couldn't jump but under no circumstances was I selling this mare to a 14yo girl.

I won't mention what she called me, but you can rest assure, she won't be visiting!!
 
good job you're not unscrupulous, you could then have had the dubious satisfaction of seeing her precious future-world-champion launched into orbit over the first cross pole, and of being able to say "I told you so..."
 
Probably all worked out for the best, as from that description she doesn't sound like the sort of JR Talavera was talking about.

I'd say if it comes up again, you'd like to speak to the rider's regular trainer/instructor/coach/whatever-you-want-to-call-it. (Those titles seem to have become some point of friction but I'd be more interested in what someone does than what they're called.;)) I know it's less common for people here to have regular tuition but anyone that young competent enough to take on a horse like that would at least be going to some sort of training. Very few JRs in North America would be even looking at a horse like that for real without a professional involved somewhere down the line.
 
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