Why would you choose to breed from rubbish???

Elsbells

Elsbells

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On another thread someone was asking if there was anyone with a mare that they could breed from for free? And on another, someone was talking about breeding from a mare that they hadn't even seen/met/bought yet?

What I would like to know is why anyone would want to breed from a mare they havn't even seen?

Also, (and this will upset I bet, although not intentional)do folk breed from mares that have broken down due to genetic or confirmational defectswhich could and sometimes does, get passed on?

Surely you should take the best of the best,... confirmationaly correct, mentaly stable, talented and fit, healthy(no predispositions)and I would also like her to have some kind of competition proven record that shows she is of quality, not just that her Grandad raced at Ascot and came third!

OK, that's put the cat amongst the pigeons. Shout at me as loud as you like, at least you'll be being honest;).
 
It's very hard to quantify what is rubbish. Some wonderful riding horses come out of unusual combinations of parents. One mans rubbish is another mans treasure. My mare was on the scrap heap and been through the sales several times but she is absolutely perfect for what I want and makes me much happier than my bloody expensive been there done that competition horse that was as quirky as hell and a total git to live with.

As most horses are kept for pleasure then why are you so concerned with competition sucess. I like so many have my horses for pleasure and hacking and riding club low level stuff so do not need a hickstead winner. What I value is a kind temperament and sound conformation but nothing flashy or hugely scopey as I don't require that.

No I don't think you should breed from something with a known genetic defect but then unless you mri scan everything how do you know what is going on inside their bodies. Some Cancers are being proven to be hereditary in all species and as most show later on in life you could use a stallion that then went onto develop Cancer.

Like everything it's a gamble. And yes there are some numb skulls who breed indescriminately but there are also a lot of kind, caring knowledgeable people who breed good honest happy hacks as well as go getting competition horses.
 
...I call my mare (Ellie) elsbells......

Anyway, its a matter of opinion as to what people think makes a good brood mare.

We can't all have superstars and there will always be room for the mare with good confo but no real competition record or where would all your everyday riding club types come from?

Breeding with genetic faults is a different matter, sadly one of my brood mares developed mild sweetitch last year but I have still put her back in foal, I have retained her 2 previous fillies (aged 2 and 3) and they show no signs, speaking to my stud vet he confirmed there is no proof it is heradatory and she produces such cracking foals. I would not have bought a mare with sweetitch to breed from but last year was the first time in 6 years she had even shown any signs - other than she hates flys.

As for breeding from a mare you have never seen/met, for me thats a no as the temprement of the mare (to me) is as important as good conformation.

My foundation mare I bought for all the wrong reasons - ie at a horse sale, they had 'weaned' her 4.5 month old filly at the sales and I felt sorry for her. She was a well bred sec D that had only ever been a brood mare and it actually turned out well, I was more than happy with the foals she gave me.

My other 2 are ex competition mares (SJ + Dressage), one of which (Dressage) had a serious tendon injury, she was going to be PTS because her then owner didn't want to pay for the 6 - 12 months rest she needed. I spoke to the vet and he confirmed it wasn't anything to do with the mares conformation and he was 90% sure she would recover with the correct treatment. I really liked the mare and although she has 'no breeding' decided to take the gamble. She had 18 months off and then I had her covered. She is 100% sound and now age 12 ( I have had her nearly 6 years) and I have retained both her fillies, she is due to faol anytime by Millenium, she is the mare with sweetitch.

The other SJ mare I bought as the girl who owned her couldn't handle her. She has good lines and is a real sweetie on the ground. She can be a little hot headed to ride but with a confident rider she is fab. Her foals to date have inherited her beautiful temprement on the ground.

Sorry for the rant... I breed from my girls because they are lovely 'people' and have good conformation not because of their lines. Had their first foals been not what I expected then I would not have bred from them again.

I do not expect to breed a superstar (although one of my - now 2 year old -geldings has gone to a well known eventer :D:D) I just want to breed sound, well mannered, trainable youngsters to go on and do a job.
 
i have to agree with holly on this about sweetitch , i had a colt out of a mare who has sweetitch and he is now 2, he has shown no signs of sweetitch, also the mares mother ,father or brother or sisters havent got sweetitch , his mum was past from pillar to post , and never had a compertion record ,
i do agree with you regards to breeding from bad confo etc tho
this is my youngster
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I once was firmly in the "I would never buy sight unseen" camp. Earlier this month, my friends and I pooled together to buy a lovely slightly older mare with an excellent competition record, good breeding, and progeny on the ground. We couldn't be happier with her, she is incredibly easy to do, and we are now discussing which stallion to use on her to produce a top class eventing foal.

My own mare is unproven in competition, but did very well in the BEF Futurity scheme in 2008 as a three-year old. She is rising five now, was backed before being put in foal, and will be re-backed this winter when the foal is weaned, and competed if I feel up to it. So ... she is unproven (but well-bred), has no competition record to speak of, also has mild sweet itch which has been easily controlled this year at a new, drier and more exposed yard. She might not pass your muster for a broodmare, but she suits my purposes well and I thought she was an excellent match for the stallion I used. I can do anything with her, and am hoping this will make her easy to deal with as a maiden when she foals (soon!). The foal is to be a keeper for me, and once I see it I will decide whether to re-breed her in the future.

No mare is without faults, but there are some faults I won't accept. If you hold out for a mare which scores all 10's at its grading, you will be waiting a very, very long time. It is important to recognize the faults which exist, and select a stallion which best complements the mare, which I think most breeders would agree with! Elsbells, you are probably preaching to the choir on this board--most here are conscientious breeders who think carefully about the pairings they make. :)
 
When i previously advertised that i wanted a broodmare, i was offered what i would class as total 'rubbish'. Many unpapered...ok...but they hadnt done anything - no competition records etc, just been 'mares.' I was also offer an awful lot who had injuries/health problems, mostly down to conformational faults.

The rescue mare i bought last year, to glance at her, i wouldnt have said....fab broodmare potentional, but you know what, shes produced a lovely colt and is being a fab mum. (she was bought already infoal, as a bit of a pity case).
I also purchased a foal a few years ago, who sadly didnt make the required height, but i had seen potential in her, and if she was a little taller...... i have bred 1 foal from her, who is better than i expected (although turning a bit chunkier than i had hoped, but i guess that comes from the grand sire). I am hoping that when i can find a rider (who isnt a wimp!) for my mare she will prove herself in competition, and hopefully become graded with SPSS.

My KWPN broodmare, well, she was a rush buy i had to admit! I was heavily pregnant with twins, and my beautiful ISH mare (who was due to be my foundation mare) severed her tendons and had to be PTS, she would have been infoal when she died if i had made my mind up with stallions the season before, i am glad in many ways i didnt choose or i would have lost two. In a hormornal mess, i went on the internet once hubby returned to work to look for my ISHs siblings, hoping to buy another, well, they were all either POA, or above £16,000. Wayyyy over my budget, so i put up a wanted advert..... this is when i got offered some that were far from suitable. I was tempted by a few as their owners told a good sob sorry and i have 'mug' on my forehead... but then i had an email from a stud whos owners were emigrating. i went over to view her (driving across to the other side of the country, weeks before you give birth to twins - i shouldnt have done it!) but anyway, i came home to think about her, then decided to go ahead and buy her. She is a proven broodmare, i had seen photos of her 1st foal with the stud, and saw in the flesh her second. The sellers were very honest and lovely, they drove to collect the money from me - so they came from one side of the country to the other just so that i didnt have to do the drive again and they could see how she had settled (yep, she was delivered before i had paid for her). OK, so, i bought her in 2008 and still havent got a foal from her but shes fab :) Her temperament is second to none.

If i owned a mare, a much loved mare, who had ok confomation, and a fab personality, and i wanted to breed for myself, i would do. But selling as a potentional broodmare.....???

I think some people just see breeding as a second use to riding if you have a mare that you can no longer ride. There does need to be a supply of general everyday riding horses, but these should be bred from sound horses who have decent conformation, otherwise the cycle continues.

Not sure if half of what i have typed makes sense as my sons are climbing on me!
 
You snob! If what you class as "rubbish" hadn't been bred, most horse owners would never have been able to afford their own horse!
 
Just thinking, half the people on this planet wouldn't be here if their parents pedigrees etc had to be approved before breeding!
 
I've bred from mine, and she's what you'd call rubbish!

She's never got anywhere in life, my own fault more than anything else. She's not 100% conformationally perfect (but find me something that is!), she is unknown breeding and she suffered from polycystic ovaries - which she may pass to her daughter.

But she has her fans up and down the country. Very few people who've met her don't fall in love with her. She's a perfect 'normal' horse, absolute lady, and aside from the ovaries is pretty good healthwise.

So what if I can't brag about her achievements and her papers? River has the pedigree and I don't think it's going to make her much of a different horse who her mum is. She is already earmarked as a competition horse by an eventer, so it's not like she's going to be a pet.

Perhaps if we took a step back and encouraged more "quality rubbish" breeding, animals who aren't posh, snobby creatures with blue blood and a proven record, then the bottom of the market horses wouldn't be quite as rubbish as they are!

And, other side of the coin, I know two blue blooded fillies who should, by all accounts, be really nice. But because their owner is a certified moron, they're ruined before they've even been backed. So quality of mare actually means jack at the end of the day.
 
enfys said:
Just thinking, half the people on this planet wouldn't be here if their parents pedigrees etc had to be approved before breeding!
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i know and it may be a better world if that was the case! ;)

in all seriousness, i look for a variety of things in a mare;

1.good pedigree
2.good conformation
3.solid affiliated comp record
4.trainable temperament

imo, every mare that is bred from should tick a minimum of 3/4 of those requirements.

it doesn't matter if you are looking to breed a happy hack or an Olympic prospect- if you can tick 3 of those boxes you are on the right tracks.

people should also judge their mares the same way they would a stallion- i.e. if your mare was a stallion would you be happy to stand it at stud?
 
9tails said:
You snob! If what you class as "rubbish" hadn't been bred, most horse owners would never have been able to afford their own horse!
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Um not quite. Surely its better to not breed than pop out some ugly, unsound, sickly horse that won't stand up to life as a ridden horse?
 
Tinkerbee said:
Um not quite. Surely its better to not breed than pop out some ugly, unsound, sickly horse that won't stand up to life as a ridden horse?
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Mine isn't ugly or unsound. She has no pedigree, or at least her pedigree is unknown, but I wouldn't hesitate to breed from her if I were that way inclined. If you want to see photos of my "rubbish" PM and I'll send them straight over. Not all rubbish is a 3 legged fugly.
 
Beatrice5 said:
It's very hard to quantify what is rubbish. Some wonderful riding horses come out of unusual combinations of parents. One mans rubbish is another mans treasure.
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Absolutely.

I have arabs and quarter horses. I am not a huge fan of big, tall horses, I wouldn't ride, handle or breed them by choice.

Why? Because I am a short arse and have no desire to struggle with something whose back is a foot higher than me.
No other reason at all, it is all down to personal preference.
 
I think all mares / stallions bred from should have good conformation & good temperament - those two things should be definites. They should have no genetic defects, no physical problems which can be traced to their physicality - i.e. I have no issue with something being bred from which has had an injury, but if it has broken down, careful consideration should be given to the cause to make sure it isn't inheiritable.

I'm afraid I do think sweet itch is inheiritable - not all horses will pass it on or inheirit it, but I have seen it crop up enough in genetic lines to be fairly sure it is genetic. There are some sweet itches will be the exception, but I think this is probably the general case.

Bloodlines or a competition record make a nice bonus, but aren't utterly essential.

It is true that there is no such thing as a perfect horse, but if you breed only from horses which have only one or two very minor conformational issues, you are going to be a lot closer to breeding something which is able to stay fit & healthy it's whole life. Thought should also be given to making sure that those minimal conformational issues are matched carefully against the other animal in the mating, so that if a mare has a slightly short neck for example, the stallion must have a lovely length of rein.

A distinction should also be made I think by what people are meaning as 'rubbish'. Some people here are using the word to describe animals with poor conformation, poor temperament, broken down, etc - whereas others are using it to describe what I would call 'ordinary' mares. There is nothing wrong with breeding from 'ordinary' mares, as long as they meet the criteria I mentioned earlier, in my opinion, but there is everything wrong with breeding from 'rubbish' horses. There is nothing wrong with owning a fugly - there are some absolutely wonderful fugly horses in the world, who make wonderful friends, and even sometimes competition horses. But I do think it is wrong to deliberately breed from a fugly.

People should also consider the marketability of their foal that they breed. Even if you breed for yourself, what happens one day when your life changes - family fall ill, you go bankrupt, you lose your job, etc. These things do happen. And if they do, you may well have to part with your horse that you lovingly bred for yourself. It will be much easier on everyone if your horse is something that other people will want, with a good future in something.
 
i'm taking 'rubbish' to mean any horse with notable conformation faults - esp any which would lead to a predisposition to injury - and yup = these should not be bred from - end of.

too many mares are bred simply because they have a womb... thank god most 'rubbish' colts get cut or there would be even more indescriminate breeding - drives me mad!!!

there are 100's of well bred horses and ponies out there who go for pittance because of a total over supply - you do no need to breed **** just to create cheap horses for the masses who just want them as a leisure horse/pony - that how so many end up on the continent in salami
 
enfys said:
Just thinking, half the people on this planet wouldn't be here if their parents pedigrees etc had to be approved before breeding!
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That wouldnt actually be a bad thing:D

I bred from my mare even though she has no papers. A lot of people probably wouldnt of done but she has no major conformation issues and is a complete puppy on the ground.

She can be spooky when ridden and is a bit of a hot head but is never nasty, she wouldn't dream of biting or kicking. She has a good competition record but hasnt been ridden for nearly 2 years as she damaged her back in the field.
I chose a stallion that suited her and it really has paid off.

Most people have average horses who are safe and not world beaters. Someone has to breed them otherwise most people would have no choice but to over horse themselves. But even still I think that mares and stallions should be chosen carefully and horses with major conformation issues should not be bred from. Horses are expensive and I just dont see the point in increasing the chances of something going wrong just because someone wants to breed from their beloved mare.
I personally wouldnt breed from a mare who was unsound or injured unless it was caused by an accident.
 
I have been thinking about this a lot lately, have been looking at buying a mare I have liked for a while but I want one to breed from in the future. Have been trying to decide what would be the point where she would be suitable and what is not worthwhile.

Quality of mare for breeding thread.

But I am aware that even the best mare/stallions are not going to produce world beaters every time so should it not be the ones which dont make the grade that go on to be good horses for normal people?
 
Define rubbish?

Ok this is rubbish to me;
Any conformation faults that will likely lead to unsoundness.
Any hereditary degenerative conditions (yes navicular counts)
Poor temperament
Not proven in chosen dicipline (if you want a hack then fine, but make it a damn good trail horse)

Pedigree is more important to me if the mare us young/unproven, then a VERY good pedigree could make up for it but I would rather see proven mares bred.

If your mare is a champion hack and all rounder, has a good temperement and has no defects likely to lead to unsoundness or hereditary conditions then carry on and breed but unless you can guaruntee a home for life (bearing in mind the future is unknown) the please make sure the result is marketable.

And from what i have seen though lower priced (to a degree) it seems it is much easier to sell a damn good, well built, sound and sweet hack than a serious competition horse, you have a larger potential audience.
 
Not proven in chosen dicipline (if you want a hack then fine, but make it a damn good trail horse)

Still disagree with ya. Dorey is a fine horse, she's a jack of all trades. When you plonk a half decent rider on her back, she throws out fabulous dressage tests and can jump like a stag.
However, I was a 17 yo girl bringing on a green horse. She was never going to be perfect.

Why can't I breed something that I admit I held back? She could have been succesful were it not for me (in fact, the one time I didn't ride her in a show she ended up in horse and hound!).

Not buying it. Some of the better bred horses are the ones out the back paddocks. Some of the showing animals/performance animals I have seen shouldn't be bred from, as winning isn't about the horses breeding in these cases, it's about who the rider knows and how good the rider is.
 
Earlier this year I was going to buy a mare 'sight unseen'. Then I realised, I'm actually broke! That put an end to that plan!!! I think she's still for sale so maybe later in the year I'll invest. To her credit she's Touchdown/Master Imp and would be bought to compete next year as a 4 year old. If she doesn't prove herself in the ring then she'll be moved along on her merry way!!!
I was also thinking about an Errigal Flight/Clover Brigade colt that is for sale. Last year Errigal Flight's owner bought a full brother to him to hopefully stand in the future. Again lack of funds earlier in the year stopped me going any further. Now if I could get money together later in the year and the Clover Brigade mare produced an Errigal Flight filly then I would find the money and be down there quicker than a hot snot to buy!!!

As for breeding from rubbish, well all I'm going to say is that the E.U should look in to putting a scheme together where they send a big team of vets in different countries with police escorts around to different yards and on to people's private property and splay every fugly mare they come across. Fugly stallions should also get the snip. People might not like it, but they'd just have to get over it
 
Just a thought we had a very rough Shire Mare who came to one of our stallions, she was ugly, bad tempered with bad conformation. But she bred 3 top class middleweight show hunters all county show winners.
 
I have to laugh when these sorts of posts go on. It costs a fortune to compete a horse & just because a mare does not have a competiton record means nothing. Our mare can jump round the novice course at MKEC no problem she jumps a decent height at home. Due to work commitments & finances she has just not gone to many competitions. Her rising 3 son has no problems with loosing jumping 3ft+ & has a lovely balanced canter & good hock action. She has no breeding record so I was well aware I was taking a huge gamble from breeding from her.

I am beginning to think the horse world is full of snobs. Yes you want to breed something sound & a temperment that can be worked with. Breeding from the best will narrow your odds, but the racing industry have been doing that for years & look at how many failures they have. It has been said a 1000 times, breeding is just part of it, if you then cant produce them under saddle through lack of ability, etc, then what will it matter if its sire was Totilas & dam Blue Hors Matinee.

There are enough experts trying to breed the next Olympic horse, leave the people who want to breed sane affordable horses alone. That does not mean I condone breeding from any broken down mare, failed stallion, or whatever is to hand. Hopefully people realise a bad horse costs the same to keep as a good one, and that in itself will slow down badly bred horses, no market, no outlet except the meat man.
 
Great to read all the posts and it's good to talk:). I have more of an idea how things in the breeding world are done and there seems to be a large spectrum of opinion here too, which is good.

The reason I started the thread is because that I look at friends and people I know who have horses that they love, but they also have horses who have inherited issues. This fact, causes them a lot of heartache and costs them a lot in time and money too. Often, they are quite simply a poorly bred hack.

Then again there are the little unwanted foals and yearlings at the markets standing in muck, covered in sores and sarcoids, whose lives are in the balance as to their future? Surely there is a responsibility to the horse here, or am I just being a snob do you think?
 
I'll throw my 2p worth in here.

My pet gripe is when people breed from mares who have sustained suspensory ligament damage or tendon damage while in light or medium work. I can cope with breeding from a mare who does a tendon while hunting in bottomless ground or going round an advanced eventing track or jumping in a 1m50 showjumping competition or doing GP dressage. But one who goes lame while doing novice tracks or out hacking has IMHO an inherent weakness in her soft tissues and does not have the genetics that should be passed on to the next generation. I don't care how good her conformation is. If she's broken down while doing little work she isn't fit to have foals. Conformation only looks at the angles between the bones. Most horses go lame from soft tissue damage that you can't see or test for. The only way to know if a horse has strong soft tissues or not is whether they stand up to the job they are asked to do. The same is true for stallions and you'd be amazed how many stallions have had time off through injury or been retired because they've damaged a tendon or ligament. I think this is why we have so many horses (especially warmbloods) right now who are breaking down as 6, 7 or 8 year olds.

Then there is temperament. If the mare is unwilling to work and dangerous to ride then she is not the sort of horse that should bring another generation into the world. Temperament can be inherited. If the mother isn't a nice horse then why risk reproducing that? There are enough sound, sane, kind mares in the world who should be mums to allow us to avoid putting the lame, difficult ones in foal.
 
Great thread with many sensible, well written replies that I have enjoyed reading. Good to see everyone putting temperament at the top of the list as I always feel a horse that is pleasant to be around has a much happier future ahead of it, regardless of other factors.
 
I think a lot of people do not know what good conformation is and why it is so important in relation to unsoundness and the ability to stand up to work.

I am still perplexed at the number of people that cannot distinguish basic faults. Not every fault is a showstopper admittedly but in all cases of both stallion and mare, their good points must outweigh the bad.

Firstly the overall picture of the horse must please the eye then start at the hooves and work upwards. Particular conformation faults predispose a horse to particular types of unsoundness. Careful breeding and matching of the stallion can overcome some of these issues. For example you would not breed a mare with less than perfect forelimb conformation to a stallion also with less than perfect forelimb conformation. It is about getting the balance right. Much indiscriminate breeding comes about because a lot of people are content to make a few pounds off foals at a horse sale because they have a colt that runs with mares at home. Equally, people who are breeding from so-called "rubbish" don't believe they are rubbish so don't have an issue or awareness that perhaps it may not be a good idea to breed a particular mare because they don't understand the relationship between conformation and soundness.

If you think you have a nice horse that pleases you and you want a foal then clearly you will breed one. Talented horses come in all shapes and sizes especially show jumpers.

There is a role for most horses, especially in the UK where there are so many leisure horses and ponies - God Bless the riding school "cut and shut" ponies we learned to ride on, all shapes and sizes but sound in mind and temperament.

This is a long winded way of saying that lack of knowledge has more to do with bad breeding than deliberately breeding rubbish.
 
Irishlife said:
I think a lot of people do not know what good conformation is and why it is so important in relation to unsoundness and the ability to stand up to work.

I am still perplexed at the number of people that cannot distinguish basic faults. Not every fault is a showstopper admittedly but in all cases of both stallion and mare, their good points must outweigh the bad.

Firstly the overall picture of the horse must please the eye then start at the hooves and work upwards. Particular conformation faults predispose a horse to particular types of unsoundness. Careful breeding and matching of the stallion can overcome some of these issues. For example you would not breed a mare with less than perfect forelimb conformation to a stallion also with less than perfect forelimb conformation. It is about getting the balance right. Much indiscriminate breeding comes about because a lot of people are content to make a few pounds off foals at a horse sale because they have a colt that runs with mares at home. Equally, people who are breeding from so-called "rubbish" don't believe they are rubbish so don't have an issue or awareness that perhaps it may not be a good idea to breed a particular mare because they don't understand the relationship between conformation and soundness.

If you think you have a nice horse that pleases you and you want a foal then clearly you will breed one. Talented horses come in all shapes and sizes especially show jumpers.

There is a role for most horses, especially in the UK where there are so many leisure horses and ponies - God Bless the riding school "cut and shut" ponies we learned to ride on, all shapes and sizes but sound in mind and temperament.

This is a long winded way of saying that lack of knowledge has more to do with bad breeding than deliberately breeding rubbish.
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Exactly what I wanted to say but couldn't find the words lol

To put the cat amongst the pidgeons again ...how many people have actually seen the stallion they have chosen for their mare?..close up and not just at a stallion parade.
I personally have only 'once' not actually seen and assessed the stallion when choosing for my mares.
Even if it's been graded I still don't trust someone elses opinion and have to see for myself.
 
I have always been of the opinion that selecting a stallion is like buying a horse and have never relied solely on videos and photographs. Unless I can see him at home and up close and personal then I would not be comfortable just using AI sight unseen. Too many times stallions prove to be very different in the flesh to their marketing material; lighter, smaller, chunkier, too refined, not as refined and so on. More importantly they sometimes can be complete fruit loops to handle.

I have bred sight unseen and always regretted not seeing the stallion in the flesh.

I breed my foals as keepers and to sell so it is important for me to make the right choices for my preferences. Therefore, I prefer to see the horse.
 
Great posts Irishlife especially about seeing a stallion in the flesh if you are going to use him. So much can be hidden on photos and a video that you'd never find out about if you don't go and see the stallion yourself. The biggest thing about a good riding horse is temperament, second biggest thing is soundness. Neither of those can be truly assessed from photos. If you can't get to see the stallion yourself hearing from people whose opinion you trust is a good second best. Or using a stallion who is older so the weaknesses he passes on and any soundness issues or temperament idiosyncrasies are all well known and have been factored into your decision to use him on your mare.

I do think there is a big place for breeding for a mare who has been a long term family friend. If she reproduced herself in every detail she would make a foal that would easily find a home as they would have a lovely temperament. Where things go wrong is when a mare owner has never ridden the mare to check her rideability, trainability or soundness (or had a go at breaking her and run into issues) but decides to have a foal with her anyway and takes her to a local stallion because he's nearby.

If the mare owner doesn't have enough knowledge of conformation (and while good conformation does not guarantee immunity from soft tissue injury, bad conformation sure does stack the deck against long term soundness) or check out what sort of temperament and type of mare the stallion mixes best with you can end up with the "bag of spare parts" horses that end up being sold at low end auctions and going for meat. Poor little things. It isn't their fault they are fugly.

Even worse is a fairly new phenomenon where a mare owner will decide they are going to use a big, flashy, well marketed european stallion on their slightly difficult, not put together well mare with dreams of producing the next Shutterfly or Totilas. The problem there is that the less-than-perfect bits of the stallion will have been glossed over in the advertising, his explosive temperament will have been kept a well guarded secret and his twisted front leg hidden in the photos. (all hypothetical examples rather than pointing at one stallion). The result is usually a very expensive disaster.

If you are going to breed your mare you owe it to her to assess her faults honestly and make a list of areas where she is weak and areas where she is strong. If she's fiery and sharp you don't want to put her to a stallion who throws sharp stock. If she's long in the back you don't want a long backed stallion. If she's toed in you don't want a toed in stallion and so on. Without having the knowledge to see these things in the mare and in the stallion the lottery of producing a good foal becomes even harder. And the biggest loser in the situation is the foal.
 
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