Why you shouldn't break so young!

[Elmere]

Theres been quite a few discussions on when to break a horse, well for all those that think its fair to break a 2 yr old then heres something for you to read if you don't know it already and if you do then why do it?
Don't want to spark another discussion just thought i'd give people something to think about!

http://www.equinestudies.org/knowledge_base/ranger.html

 

[Forget_Me_Not]

Didn't read im a lazy sod but shocking pictrues! I wouldn't dream breaking under 3/4years mines 5 only just starting to breaking its done him world of good been older!

 

[Kermie]

Good article. There's a Fell breeder who is married to a vet and he took xrays of young Fells' legs at varying ages and it was very interesting to see the changes in bone structure. They are most definitely not ready to back at 2.

 

[burtie]

On my boys leg xrays at just over 2.5 years, the vet showed me the huge gap between the bones at the top of his legs where they still had growing to do.

I would never start a horse properly before 3.5 years min.

 

[jemima]

Fascinating - and well worth the read

 

[PapaFrita]

Poor PF... that's her crippled for life then...

 

[Tia]

Excellent piece! Very well balanced and knowledgeable approach and similar to the pieces I read when I first came to this country and one which helped me make my decision on backing my horses.

This is a great quote:

[ QUOTE ]
What bad will happen if you put him to work as a riding horse before that? Two important things - and probably not what you're thinking of. What is very unlikely to happen is that you'll damage the growth plates in his legs. At the worst, there may be some crushing of the cartilages, but the number of cases of deformed limbs due to early use is tiny. The cutting-horse futurity people, who are big into riding horses as young as a year and a half, will tell you this and they are quite correct. Want to damage legs? There's a much better way - just overfeed your livestock

[/ QUOTE ]

And this is possibly where so many people go wrong:

[ QUOTE ]
Bottom line: if you are one of those who equates "starting" with "riding", then I guess you better not start your horse until he's four.

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........although it may have been better for her to end this quote with "by an experienced person who is more knowledgeable".


As far as I can see the only thing she hasn't mentioned, unless I missed it, is that Warmbloods generally are not fully matured until they are 7 or 8 years old but she did make mention of those who leave their horses till they are "old enough" and then fundementally beggar them by asking way too much of them, with their rigourous schooling regimes etc. when the horses are not physically ready.

Thank you for this Elmere - it has validified it to me yet again why I choose to very gently back my guys early and wait till they are between 4 and 6 years old before I break them.

 

[truffles]

[ QUOTE ]
Theres been quite a few discussions on when to break a horse, well for all those that think its fair to break a 2 yr old then heres something for you to read if you don't know it already and if you do then why do it?
Don't want to spark another discussion just thought i'd give people something to think about!

http://www.equinestudies.org/knowledge_base/ranger.html

[/ QUOTE ]

Deffo going to be saving that and reading it in a bigger print!

 

[JudyM]

Thank you so much for posting this Elmere. People keep asking me when I'm going to start breaking my 3yo New Forest filly, Tibby. I keep saying there's no rush, and I can see they think I'm daft, but I've always thought 4 is young enough to start working. Having only bought her this year, I've read a lot of for sale ads, and I've been horrified at the number of 3 year olds advertised not only as good to hack out, but as good jumpers too.

 

[magic104]

Yes, thanks for that it will be interesting to see the views of those that do believe it ok to start a 2yr old. My views have already been posted. Again thank you.

 

[AmyMay]

Didn't read the whole thing - but it does seem quite specific to breaking methods from the US(??).

My yard routinely breaks 2 and 3 year olds. Two year olds are not backed - three year olds are. These are usually big horses, for whom it is advantageous to start early and then turn away.

Each to their own - but not sure you can cast a random opinion on breaking horses in at certain ages, because it really does depend on how it is done.

 

[Elmere]

Well read the whole thing then!

 

[PoppyPony]

I'm also shocked at the number of horses advertised as being able to jump etc at 3 years old!?

 

[vicijp]

So, what about the British research that has found that bone density improves for horses doing the right work at a young age?
That article is interesting, dont get me wrong, but when a controlled experiment has found positive results for horses working young then I think I will stick to that.

 

[Elmere]

Yes the right work, long-reining, playing with their friends!

Where is this article, i would like to read it?

 

[vicijp]

The right work was actually found to be steady to mid speed cantering in a straight line. I dont think you will find it on the net, but I do have it here somewhere. If I can find it (which I doubt) I will scan it and post it.

 

[Bossanova]

[ QUOTE ]
So, what about the British research that has found that bone density improves for horses doing the right work at a young age?
That article is interesting, dont get me wrong, but when a controlled experiment has found positive results for horses working young then I think I will stick to that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly what I was going to say- controlled loading improves bone density and it is actually beneficial for the young racehorse's skeleton to have done conditioning work at 2/3

 

[Bossanova]

I will try and find the papers this suff was published in later- I just got taught it on my degree course by an equine orthopaedic surgeon.

 

[Gingernags]

Didn't read all of it have to admit, but skimmed the main points.

We have a 2 1/2 year old that currently walks out in hand, we are trying to teach long reining, will carry a saddle, is bitted and will let you sit on her. I'd not say she's fully backed as we only do this once in a blue moon, and she walks a circuit of our yard then rider gets off.

She will not do any more than that til next summer when we'll up that and she'll start on mini hacks - only walking - as she turns 3. She will not be schooled on any circles or hacked out properly til she turns 4.

Its the same way we did Asti, so when we say we start them at 2 thats just mainly in hand and long reining, and at 15 Asti has never had any major soundness issues and has a good build/bone structure. But then again, with some horses I'd leave it even later, as some mature really late and you can tell backing at 3 is too early.

 

[dieseldog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, what about the British research that has found that bone density improves for horses doing the right work at a young age?
That article is interesting, dont get me wrong, but when a controlled experiment has found positive results for horses working young then I think I will stick to that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly what I was going to say- controlled loading improves bone density and it is actually beneficial for the young racehorse's skeleton to have done conditioning work at 2/3

[/ QUOTE ]

I imagine it would work on the same principles as exercising in women to help combat osteoporosis (sp)

 

[Theresa_F]

I am doing the same as you, Chancer is now 2 1/2 and is sat on every other week for 10 - 15 minutes and does basically what he does on the long reins, halts, turns and one walk to trot. This week we also did mounting from a crate and doing up the girth when onboard to increase his education.

In the spring he will start to hack out once a week building up to 30 minutes over the summer.

This time next year I plan to start a little schooling when he is 3 1/2.

He will not jump or gallop until 4 1/2 to 5 but be brought along very slowly as I have done with all his education.

My vet, physio and instructor are very happy with the way he is - I sort their approval before sitting on him plus I am taking a year to achieve what most people do in 6 weeks.

What is wrong is getting on a 2 - 3 year old and expecting them to start schooling and work other than the lightest of hacks.

That said, if he were a gangly WB, I would be waiting - but Chancer is a very sturdy gypsy cob - all are different as are ways of backing.

 

[suestowford]

There was a very interesting article on this very subject n 'Native Pony' magazine a couple of issues back. It was more to do with our native breeds, but said many of the same things.

JudyM you might be interested to know that some of the New Forest breeders don't break ponies in for riding until they are six! (that's the ponies that are six, not the breeders....)

 

[brighteyes]

Oh dear! Discussion well under way! I think the article raises some valid points and highlights how totally unnatural most of the stuff we do with (and expect of) horses is, compared to what happens to them 'in the wild'. Even with the very best intentions.

It is all a compromise, but I am sure lightly backing at four and then leaving til 5 was the right thing for our native. He's six and a half and only now getting his head round work and his frame rounding out with muscle and bodily maturity. All the early stuff mentioned was well covered and he's not a hooligan, so backing wasn't a shock at either point.

I'm sure nobody intends to do damage but it is food for thought indeed.

 

[Gingernags]

[ QUOTE ]
He's six and a half and only now getting his head round work

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Ah now there is another reason to use individuality in respect to when to start them! Mentally, ours needed something to think about, and messing about like this is doing that and her behaviour has improved no end! Mentally she is definitely ready for it, it isn't always 100% down to the physical elements!

I have seen a vast improvement in her behaviour (She can be an aggressive baggage) and she is being utterly angelic about standing at the mounting block, rider getting on, and being led round a little. Yesterday for the first time, my sister took up the reins to halt, and used her legs to walk on, and the little (?) horror took it all in her stride, didn't bat an eyelid!

I know my sister is itching to do more as she's being so good, but she knows not to until next year.

With mine, I struggled at one yard as she was not quite 4 and no-one would hack out with me, so I used to ride around the big field doing some very large circles (like over 40m) as I don't like schooling too young and asking them to bend so much. I moved yards to one right next to the forestry and she got hacked out virtually every day as she turned 4 and I still think it gave her better balance and fitness levels than horses I've seen schooled and schooled at that age.

I taught her to jump at 5 in a school after starting flatwork, but did the odd log etc in the woods first and she was a natural. We'll be following the same ideas with the spotty troll. Will just see how things go...

 

[magic104]

We will just go round in circles here. What goes on in the racing industry bares no relation to the "normal riding horse". These horses are kept & trained in a strict manner, they are monitored, blood tested etc. The normal horse is not treated in that way, he very often has someone who has a reasonable amount of knowledge. They may not even have the balance that is required to carry their own weight so the horse is carrying less. I am sorry but the main point should be getting the horse mouthed correctly. Accepting the bit, understanding that he moves away from the hand when asked to. The ground work needs to be in place first. Most people get away with it, because the horse is so forgiving & has the temperment to cope. It does not make it right and yes everyone to their own, but at the expense of the horse?? Not so sure about that, what is the rush? Why cant the ground work be put in place and the weight of a rider left until he is 3yrs?? Why do people want to rush their babies? Even a strapping 16.2hh 2yr old is still a baby, he still has to learn to balance himself, let alone worry about weight on his back. We have a Pro-Set 3yr old, he was started this summer, long reined etc, backed & taken out on a couple of hacks. He will now be left until the Spring. He is a good 16.3hh, has it done him any harm to be left till 3? No none what so ever. I would hope you would not push your children in the same way, because at 2 they are nothing more then 10yr old children.

 

[claire1976]

Very interesting article and debates could be started on all levels but I have to say, most 2 years olds need a 'job' to do at this age. What I mean by this is not saddling up and riding but having something to think about. There's absolutely no reason why a 2 year old cannot be de-spooked, long reined, introduced to a mild bit and saddle pad, be taught flexion exercises etc etc. Teaching good, basic ground manners can be taught at any age but in my experience the younger the better. I'm afraid I see it more and more often where people horses have bad manners on the ground yet are A1 in the dressage ring. This, to me, is a perfect example of why starting a 2 year old is better than leaving a horse 'turned away' until 3/4/5 before being taught basis skills. Of course a horse of 2 is not physically mature enough to weight bear an adult for long hacks/jumping etc but he/she should be starting the learn whats expected of them when they are mature enough.

 

[Tia]

Totally agree with you Claire.

Has anyone wondered why there are so many half-witted horses around? A lot of them have been left in a field till they are 3 or 4 and then all of a sudden someone bounces on their backs and off they go!

My groundwork starts at around 6 months old and they are exposed to as much as possible.

Makes you laugh really; all these folks who ride their WB's before they are physically mature enough. All these 5 and 6 year olds who are jumping and on schooling regimes. Sadly they do not appear to know enough to find it even slightly ironic.

 

[Theresa_F]

Agree with you - I started with Chancer at 18 months and spent nearly a year getting him used to tack, long rein, good manners in hand, loading, being led out past tractors, combines etc.

He was getting bored and bolshy and since having three short sessions a week using his brain has become a model youngster.

Now backed - I will again spend a year taking things very slowly before starting even the basics of schooling and jumping won't start for a year after that when he will be 4 1/2 - assuming he is ready.

 

[burtie]

But a horse does not need to be backed to have good manners IMO.

I would always start some form of groundwork with youngsters even whilst still on the mare in small doses, but I never actually back them before 3.5 years. But I guess my definition of backed may be different. I would have saddles on (lightweight) from 2. Have good leading manners and walk and trot in hand, possibly bitted but still lead from headcollar. I may even lean over them at 2 and possibly sit briefly on them whlst stationery, but no work actually moving with a riders weight. I wouldn't lunge until at least 3 and even then be careful not to over do it.
I guess we all have slightly different routines and it really does come down to opinion and personal experience as no reall scientific studies have been carried out to really access the best age to start working a horse or introduce various things.

 

[Tia]

Yes you're right. For example, I will quietly trail mine out if they are ready for it at 2 but would never consider lunging them until they are about 6 or 7 and never ever jump before 5 years old. Horses for courses and often the proof is in the pudding as to whether we all do right by ourselves and our horses.

I also hear of some people who start to back horses at 8 or 9 years old - personally I've had nothing but trouble with these older horses who haven't had anything done with them.