Why you shouldn't break so young!

[Ginn]

IMO a horses education should start as early as possible, gradually building from standing quietly to be brushed as a foal or yearling through to ridden work when both horse and rider are ready! I also feel that more damage is potentially done if a horse is backed and broken in the standard 6 - 8 weeks then if gentally started at the age of 2 1/2 and by this I don't mean ridden work but very gental lunging on big (30m) circles and longreining. Getting him or her used to as many different situations as a youngster can be invaluable and by 3 I see no reason why physically a horse cannot be introduced to gental hacking - the damage is done with endless lunging, schooling, jumping early on, and hard ridden work like a day out hacking including fast work. However, if the horse is mentally ready to start gental light exercise at 2 1/2 to 3 then it can actually be benificial to its physical and mental development.

Interestingly I have just finnished discussing this with my father who has a detailed understanding of both anatomy and physical growth and his response was pretty much the following: gental loading is infact benificial as the bones still have the potential to be "deformed" at this point since they are still developing and thus gental loading and exercise will aid improved bone density. His analogy was along the lines that children who grow up playing sports and having an active life tend to mature physically stronger and more able then those who spend their childhood in front of the tv. However, if you start training a 3 yr old in gymnastics to a high level from the age of three then of course they are far more likely to have joint problems later on in early adulthood. Does that make sense?

I would also be interested to see where the writer of the article has gathered his/her scientific data from to reach these conclusions, if it does infact exist, as although convinceingly wriiten using "scientific" terminology there are no references as to where the initial information or research came from.

Personally, I feel common sense has a large amount to play in when to start you horse. If they are mentally ready (my girl thrives on having something new to think about and if left for too long in her field she has a tendancy to let me know she is bored!) then taking another step forward in their education is going to do little harm and a slow steady progressive eduication is going to make life easier for everyone. Secondly, slowly increasing physical work load is going to help the horse's muscles develop gradually to adapy to the weight of the rider and the added physical demands of ridden work. Surely throwing a rider up on a horses back at the age of 4 or 5 after just a few weeks of lunging is going to potentially contribute to musclature damage and incorrect development then slowly building on it of say 6 months?? Also, bare in mind that horses are flight animals and that they are designed from the moment they learn to stand to be able to run from danger, thus their skeltons are better developed then we may assume them to be - again common sense says that this deosnt mean they should be ridden as soon as they are big enough but they are much stronger then we give them credit for.

Ok, will stop rambling on now as I culd go on for quite some time...

 

[Theresa_F]

This is exactly what I am doing with mine - starting early but will in actual fact have spent from 18 months to 3 1/2 before he does anything other than a gentle hack. No couple of weeks lunging and then able to walk trot and canter within another couple of weeks for me personally.

My instructor is of the view that if you have the time and are doing the backing at home, this is the best way as the horse has plenty of time to mature under very gentle conditions and lots of time to think about all the changes that are happening.

He had a year to develop a little muscle and strength from light work before he was sat on and apart from one bucking session due to something upsetting him has been no problem so far.

Not right for everyone - but certainly seems to be exactly what my little chap requires.

 

[magic104]

They are indeed flight animals but they are not expected to carry upwards of 8st, unless they are ponies then they hopefully will be carrying less. The point is the animal has to learn to balance themselves, hard enough without the burden of a rider. I have seen enough people thinking because they have ridden for x amount of years that they are capable of backing a youngster. These people ride heavy because they are not capable of carrying & balancing their own weight. At least if the horse is started at 3yrs he is that bit stronger. Also I have never said in any of the posts that you should or could not do ground work. I believe the horse should know how to move away from the hand when asked. He should be accepting of the bit, & there is no reason why he cant be introduced to a roller & saddle. I just do not think that they need to be burdened with weight before 3yrs. I cringed when I saw someone proudly sitting astride their 2.5yr old proclaiming how she enjoyed going down the lane for 5mins. Not exactly a lightweight either, so what is the point in sitting on them for 5mins? I dont back mine until the autumn of the 3rd year, they will have been handled all the way through & taken to the odd in-hand showing class. They will have been walked out in-hand from 9mths or so, in preparation for when they are long reined. They will have learnt to move over when asked, they will have walked over poles, they will have the ground work & handling so that they learn to take everything in their stride. Even so each horse is an individual & you work at their speed. They will be loose schooled before being lunged. It is knowing your horse, so you will know when it is right to back him. They are babies and deserve to have the time to enjoy their early years, because all too soon they will be under saddle & if they are lucky to have good health will be under saddle for many years. Therefore I do not begrudge giving mine time to have their fun. As for children going out & playing instead of sitting in front of the box, what are youngsters doing out in the field? The point is they do not need to be carrying weight at 2yrs of age.

 

[Weezy]

Read the article, havent read ALL the responses but I dont think being broken and ridden away from 2 did my little mare's skeletal form any harm at all - doesnt look like she has a malformed back to me



(click pic to make bigger)

I do think a lot of these articles are written by scare-merchants but that is just my opinion

 

[vicijp]

Ill join the club Weezy, all these were backed at 2.
She is 3yo here.

She is maybe 4/5yo.

This horse is 5yo here.

This horse is 5yo.

This horse is 5yo here.

Is there anything wrong with any of those?
Now compare it to this 4yo, just backed.

Big difference in maturity, wouldnt you say?
As for youngsters needing time to be youngsters, 1 month out of a year in work does them no harm at all - they still have the other 11 months to play with their mates.

 

[magic104]

I dont see anything wrong with these horses which were not backed till 3yrs

4yr old backed at 3.5yrs

This ones a 2yr old TB I would not have dreamt of expecting her to carry a rider b4 she turned 3yrs

 

[Gingernags]

[ QUOTE ]
I cringed when I saw someone proudly sitting astride their 2.5yr old proclaiming how she enjoyed going down the lane for 5mins. Not exactly a lightweight either, so what is the point in sitting on them for 5mins?

[/ QUOTE ]

Was that aimed at me?

Given that it is my sister in the pic, and she has a huge fleece and then a padded body warmer on I think saying she's "not exactly a lightweight" is a bit of a cheek!

And we have done this before, I broke Asti this way 12 years ago - can't see that its harmed her AT ALL and she's only 15hh now with 7.5" bone - Ivy is already over 15.2 with 8.5" and built like a brick sh!thouse - leg at each corner not some weedy thing.

No way has four 5 min sessions over the last 4 months damaged her. Its down to individuals and as I've owned and been breaking horses for over 20 years, I'll keep to my way thanks. My mare has NEVER had a major bone/back/leg problem in her life, or even minor ones other than a foot abscess and a tiny splint FROM A KICK which went after a couple of months.

No problems with her back (She's rising 15 now)

Or movement

Doesn't affect her at all

Can't see there that I've done anything wrong at all! And I'm a good bit heavier than my sister! This pony has beaten a group of 16hh+ in a worker class, done county level, BSPS champs, PC eventing to championship level, does endurance and dressage and anything you ask of her without any problems. We hack out over some of the roughest and toughest terrain on the north yorks moors, plus last year she did a 200mile ride in 6 days across the pennines from the west coast to the east, without so much as flinching. Can't see her managing that if I'd knackered her by lightly backing her at 2!

 

[Lucy_Ally]

[ QUOTE ]
So, what about the British research that has found that bone density improves for horses doing the right work at a young age?
That article is interesting, dont get me wrong, but when a controlled experiment has found positive results for horses working young then I think I will stick to that.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was work done in our group on TBs. It has been shown that the growth plates on TBs close at 2 so they are in the scientific meaning of the word mature. After maturity the bones and tendons of the legs have a reduced ability to adapt to exercise so it is better to exercise (although not over work) young horses so their legs adapt to the stresses placed on them and become as strong as they possibley can before they reach maturity. IMO it is entirely dependent on the horse as warmbloods etc are thought to reach maturity later. As a 2 year old I would certainly be doing some work with them to keep their minds occupied whilst also building up their fitness and strength. I probably would start proper riding til 3 1/2 or 4 and would definitely have periods of being turned away.

I have to say some of those photos look photo-shopped to me, I have never seen even the most rigorously worked 2 year olds look like that! Only 30 year old brood mares! Maybe they do somehting different in america!

 

[Tia]

Yours look great Vici. And I think mine do too.

Here is a couple of pictures of one of my youngsters:

This is Oscar - he has had all groundwork done at this stage, and this is the very first time being ridden and only 20 months old:

And here he is almost 4 years old:

Does he look like he has suffered from being ridden for a couple of years?

Honestly does it really matter; so long as the rider is gentle, has a good idea of what and how to do it, is sensitive to the horse's capabilities not only physically but also psychologically. The little horse pictured above has also gently worked cattle and hasn't batted an eyelid at anything I have done with him. He is also one of my personal horses who leads out trail rides, he's very well trained already and I plan to keep him for a very long time.....so there is no way I would jeopardise his future by asking something that is too much for him......however I never want him to become stagnant.

Since coming here, a lot of you older members will recall that I did have issues with backing horses so young, as is normal over here, however when I actually looked into it closely, I quickly realised that the benefits to the horse FAR outweigh any slim negatives.

It's each to their own - I wouldn't even dream of telling WB owners that they shouldn't even be riding their horses at 5 or 6, so I would like to think that others would give me, and my ilk, the same degree of respect.

 

[Nic]

Look at the size of his bum!!

He is gorgeous Tia!

 

[Tia]

Thanks Nic. He does have a stonking great bum doesn't he, LOL!!

 

[Elmere]

Well you obviously aren't going to listen to common sense, 20 months, poor horse!

My stallion was running out until 9 and then brought in and broken, he doesn't bat an eyelid either and he doesn't look anywhere near as bored as your boy!

 

[Tia]

Whether a horse looks bored or not in a photo has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation, LMAO! But I guess that was the worst you could possibly think to say about him - because he certainly does not have a dipped back, has never been lame, is beautifully muscled and has a fabulous mind on him etc.

Has your stallion has been suitably motivated over the past 9 years? Wandering around a field doing nothing for 9 years certainly wouldn't be my choice for a fulfilling life for my horses, but each to their own - I certainly wouldn't dream of telling you that this was wrong.

As for common sense; common sense (along with a tonne of research) tells me that it is more beneficial for my horses to be started young and brought on very gradually.

Oh and don't feel pity for any of my horses please - they all lead wonderful lives.

 

[Weezy]

In all honesty I dont see the point in tryng to show a different view to some people

 

[Bossanova]

Heres something to shock you- the local trainer breaks them as yearlings and expects them out on the track near the start of their 2 yr old year.
Not just ridden by lw jockey types either, its whoever he can get in at the time!!

 

[Elmere]

I could say alot worse but i don't feel the need to offend when it won't change your opinion, i just don't understand why - so you tell me and make it a valid reason, not that he's bored because there are plenty more things to do, i just don't see one?

I don't know were you live but my stallion was at the stud where he was bred running out on the hills with other mares, foals and stallions and doing what horses naturally love and running free in his natural habitat, that is far more satifying to a horse than leading a ridden ponies life, would you rather start off as a child working or living your childhood, i mean why can't you let him lead that life for atleast his younger years instead of rushing him and taking this time away from him, i mean what happens to children who didn't have a chance to live their childhood, i'm not just talking about his physical problems but his happiness!

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]
He doesn't look anywhere near as bored as your boy!

[/ QUOTE ]
Blimey! That's a huuuuge assumption to make! Are you suggesting that Tia's lovely lad is bored because he was backed young? Have you assessed his whole nature from 2 pictures?
When people post pics of their horses lying down in their stable or sleeping or dozing or floppy-eared, do you ask at what age they were backed??? Honestly!

I'm going to jump on the 'look at my horse' bandwagon. PF, now 8, backed at 18 mths like most rachorses (nothing to do with me) Possibly a bit bored of trotting sedately in a boring circle (I photoshopped the lungerein out)

It's virtually impossible to take a picture of her with her ears not pricked... but that's just how she is! (Was very tempted to post a string of photos, but thought it a bit excessive)

 

[Elmere]

Lol well if we're all going to post piccies then i might as well, below is my rising 3 yr old colt, rubbish photo but quite happy just running around, he looks alot more mature than yours yet i'm managing to be patient as i want him to stay that way maturing nicely and most importantly being happy, you are more than wecome to critise my ponies, heres my website for even more piccies...http://elmerestud.mysite.orange.co.uk/

 

[PapaFrita]

Honestly you think he looks more mature than PF? Wow! She'll be so pleased

Wouldn't dream of critisising your ponies unless I saw something very wrong, I was just trying to say that it's wrong to assume that a horse broken young will wind up a cripple or bored to death.
I've never known a less bored horse than PF!

edited because I thought of something else; I know you're not assuming horses will end up crippled BUT the photos on the link you posted show some very, very extreme cases. I doubt if anyone on the forum, even those in racing have seen back like those- EVER. I have seen, however, some very dipped backed/damaged legs etc etc on horses that were backed later in life.

 

[Elmere]

All i was asking was why not let them have there first few years to play with other youngsters of their own kind and enjoy thereselves whilst they're still babies as said in the above post, obviously yours is an 8 yr old i was comparing more with the other 2yr olds and we all have different idea of what a horse should be, i wasn't meaning it in a horrible way saying you could critise my ponies as i like to hear others opinions and i'm honestly not offended by this just genuinly interested in other peoples ways of thinking?

 

[PapaFrita]

I neither agree nor disagree as I think each horse is to be judged individually based on conformation/maturity and temperament. I had nothing to do with PF's backing but I did ride her as a 3-year-old, albeit very gently and I know she much prefers being in work than not (when she had time off for her foal she was a right grumpy madam; this all changed as soon as I started working her again, with foal at foot)
I'm sure many horses ARE damaged by being ridden too young, but I dare say many are damaged by irresponsible riders even at an older age.
Like I said, the pics in the link were very, very shocking and undoubtedly the absolutely worst case scenarios. Several people on the forum have started many horses young with no ill-effects. So, basically, whilst I don't disagree with you, I don't think there's one hard and fast rule for all horses.

 

[Ginn]

[ QUOTE ]
All i was asking was why not let them have there first few years to play with other youngsters of their own kind and enjoy thereselves whilst they're still babies

[/ QUOTE ]

My girl is only a 2 yr old. Her education started from the day I had her, first with small things and from Feb this year fortnightly lessons from the ground. She goes out for walk, lightly lunges, longreins, and happily potters around for up to 15 mins now (have started this since Sept this year) with a rider on her back.

So in answer to your qu I have 2 answers:
1) Firstly my girl thrives on input and having to think. She becomes more bored if just left to stand in a field and can become very playful (i.e. bouncing around with legs in the air when you're mucking out her field) if she goes for more than a few days without having something else to think about! But she lives out 24/7 and other than maybe 30 mins every few days has a normal, natural lifestyle and plenty of time to grow up and be a horse - you wouldn't stop your child going to preschool and then school as it demanded "work" and stoped them playing like children all the time would you?
2) As previously mentioned, gentle loading of the joints and developing tissues has actually been shown to be benificial, imrpoving bone density and cartilage, ligament and tendon strength since the horse is still growing and can therefore be biomechanically influenced.

Each to their own - I have nothing against people who choose to wait until their horses are older to back them - it is their choice, but to say those of us who start our horses earlier should have our opinions equally respected!

Oh and just so you can judge for yourself, here's my girl - clearly receiving great physiccal and mental trauma from her education!

 

[Gingernags]

Exactly - we are totally the same with ours!!!

In fact, we have a TB that was broken at 4 who has had navicular and all sorts of lameness problems, yet my ginger one backed lightly and them ridden away at 3 - has never had anything wrong, conformationally seems to be damn near pefect - or so the showing judges at the champs though this summer - and at coming up for 15 has NEVER, EVER shown problems from what I did, and touch wood won't. And she is the sunniest natured horse, everyone absolutely loves her and she does every discipline other than polo, and thrives on it.

If I could clone her I could make millions. I've been offered blank cheques for that mare on more than one occassion and not that I would, if I sold her there would be a bidding war! Nothing I have done has turned her into a bored or crippled nag.

Ivy, I'm confident, will be exactly the same. She is very well developed for her age, already bigger than both her sire and dam, and fairly well muscled under the fluff from all the time spent bucking and racing round the field like a mad thing. Sitting on her 4 times has not stopped her playing nice at all but has improved her nature no end. Its not even a weekly thing, just every now and then as something different.

Ivy can become very aggressive if she thinks she isn't getting attention, and ours are now in on a night so she needs something to keep her busy and I still will stand by what we are doing.

In general - not aimed at Ginn - Had I bought or bred a horse that was obviously immature and on the weedy side, I would certainly leave it longer, or if the horse mentally wasn't ready.

The difference is - I can judge each horse on individual merits and do either course - I am open minded about that. I don't stick to one view rigidly and call everyone who does otherwise. I personally would not start them as early as Tia - HOWEVER that is how things are done over there - and horses like QH are totally differently developed and put together than warmbloods or TB's - and the proof seems to be in the pudding there - the horses aren't suffering any ill effects so I have nothing against what she does.

Equally if someone left a horse and started it at 4 or 5 that I would have done earlier - well that is their decision and I wouldn't dream of getting all holier than thou about it and shouting them down - horses and owners is all individual and I don't think any one approach can ever be 100% right or wrong - thats the way of the horse world and everyone would be a lot better off if they could just acceot that and do their own thing without having a go at things people do differently not wrongly