Wildly angry..infact tooo angry to muster a rant

[SaharaS]

Just got home...and am SOOOOOOO flipping angry after calling out a vet to stitch my horse ...that I am actually too angry still to muster enough calm to rant coherently on here..This may actually go down in the records for my shortest post EVER...long story short..Vet:vein not found..could not sedate..tried to IM sedative..did not work. vet could then not inject horse as he had upset it so much & by this point I was losing feeling in my right side fast-previous injury plus it being -2 so nothing to do with upset horse)it was so bad that I had to call in my groom who then had to give MY horse a painkiller, his tetanus & his penicillin..while she was holding him. Horse now still not stitched and has a gaping open wound to shoulder.. in my opinion, the vet was not keen to turn up..and 20mins arrival eta was in fact 1 hour ten. He dropped needles and was arrogant and rude. He did not seem keen to stitch even before he turned up.. he said it would be a welfare issue to stitch a horse just because the owner thought it necessary...which it clearly is. I consider it a welfare issue NOT to stitch. I don't want my horse to have an infection risk & nasty scar...he replied: but if I stitch he could be left with white hair...oh how awful..i'll opt for the scar.I'm SOOOO cross...well done if you got this far xxx ps just about breathing now!

 

[YorksG]

Speak to a senior partner at the practice and tell them you do not want that idiot out to your yard again and why! If he is senior then change practice.
What was the original problem by the way? Sounds like you had a trying evening

 

[Dolcé]

Is this a vet from your usual practice? I had similar when we had a vet out to our prem foal last year, she was useless? Phone and complain to the practice manager first thing Monday and tell them you will not be paying for this visit. Can you get another vet out to treat the horse first thing, hopefully before the skin starts to dry out?

 

[PennyJ]

What an absolute nightmare Is there another vet practice you could call out to stitch, or is it just pointless even trying tonight?

Monster tantrum due to your regular vet practice on Monday I think... And certainly refusing to pay their bill. It might be a good idea to take some photos?
Good luck and I hope it all works out for you and your horse.

 

[SaharaS]

Thank you YorksG...he's def not senior..and have experienced him before..was for a booked call out to microchip 4horses,during the winter last jan when it snowed? they cancelled on me 3 times because it was bad weather & they wanted to keep the vets free for safe access to emergency only calls.Fair enough but nice to let client know rather than waiting in cold for 4 hours longer than necessary..anyway...he eventually came out, but refused to microchip as conditions were not sterile!!! I had no water let alone hot as all my taps were frozen(three weeks of solid iced pipes) I had a bottle of tap water in car & a bottle of unopened Evian. Not good enough as i may have contaminated it!!!! I questioned him simply using a sterile wipe/septicleanse sterile wound cleaning spray etc first...no! I still got charged call out & handling fees. Makes me wonder if he will have the nerve to charge for inspecting the horse,this eve...and cleansing /treating it....as i have a good mind to bill him for my groom & for her time, and her injecting everything!

Thank you again...wise advice HHO is good destresser for these things..just helps even writing it(not sure my poor keyboard on Mac is agreeing!it must have key ache!!!) I am very glad i bluntly said to him it might help the situation if he was castrated...that was like cake!

 

[YorksG]

Ah one of those junior vets, actually frightened of horses and thinks that horse owners should all be girls between 15 and 18 who will be impressed by him We had one who eventually lost us a foal, have never allowed him back on our land since, and never will, worse than useless. We had a fantastic vet who used to send the new young vets to us (not sure what he said before he sent them as they nearly always seemed terrified of us when they got here ) and would then ask us for our assessment of the young vets. He understood that often long term owners knew more than recently qualified vets.

 

[SaharaS]

Dolce & PennyJ thank you both..he's too upset to try again tonight & I don't want to stress him more as got really frightened which was totally unnecessary just due to the blokes attitude. I hope the foal was ok? It so difficult as he's the duty vet for wkend for my practice tho i normally only have the girls or the partners out..and horse has NEVER been anything other than easy to do esp when needing help/comfort (like thunder/fireworks etc) he would never hurt you & is always so chilled, now this.great. I bet they make me pay...for eg I pay all my vet bills within 2 days of invoice but usually i pop in day or day after the callout as i like to settle up as you never know when you need them..thats my way & always will be-utility bilss are a diff matter in comparison..only on invoice! anyway.one of mine colicked in oct 2010 and this year in sept I got a bill for the mares already settled invoice(which was paid next day in oct 2010), but dated for 2 months ahead ie nov 2011...and they had charged me 90 days fees.I rang up furious & asked which of my horses was due to colic in 6 ish weeks from that day and what the hell were they playing at..she knew i had paid and cleared it with accounts who agreed..but that means someone actually went into the system & drew up that account & went to the effort of tinkering with it and re issueing it...had I just paid it without checking, it would have been a nice £300 tip for christmas..they said it was a computer hic up..hmmmmmm ofcourse! I made them stamp date & sign issued in error & previously paid in full before accoun invoiced & the date i'd settled...keeping that one I can tell you!

 

[Piccy]

I would take photos and make a written account of the evenings events then phone ask for another vet tomorrow, then make a formal complaint to the practice manager on Monday, hope you get it sorted and the horse is alright, sounds terrible service to me I would be leaping up and down on them if it was my horse.

 

[YorksG]

SaharaS, where are you based? We had that type of issue a number of years ago,we ended up paying £500 twice We changed practice just after that!

 

[Foxhunter49]

I had a similar issue with a woman vet several years ago. She was useless. 4.30 in the morning with a foal that had no suckle reflex.
I know she was in bed when I called and when she arrived - a good hour later, she had more makeup on than Barbara Cartland. She couldn't get a feeding tube down the foal (I did it in the end) Couldn't sedate the mare because she couldn't find the jugular (this was a Shire mare) so I could milk her out and was talking all sorts of crap about the actual foaling (which had been fine)

I complained to the practise and never received a bill.

Fortunately I am experienced enough, old enough and have a large amount of horses that the very good practise we use now know that if I say it is an emergency they come and if they disagree with what I think, give some very good reasons for their argument!

 

[SaharaS]

Ah one of those junior vets, actually frightened of horses and thinks that horse owners should all be girls between 15 and 18 who will be impressed by him We had one who eventually lost us a foal, have never allowed him back on our land since, and never will, worse than useless. We had a fantastic vet who used to send the new young vets to us (not sure what he said before he sent them as they nearly always seemed terrified of us when they got here ) and would then ask us for our assessment of the young vets. He understood that often long term owners knew more than recently qualified vets.

So sorry to hear you lost the foal:-( and i think you are exactly right...he's a vet don't you know!I might have been covered in hay /mud/blood & starving & cold & creaky...but I know my horses..I trully do, just as you do and rightly stated about vets appreciating that. I once called a vet out in sussex who was watching South African Rugby match & told me to ring when i was less paranoid/having real emergency...he put her to sleep a week later for the grass sickness he thought was owner neurosis. Another mare, homebred 18mnths had 4 vets out from same practice over 3 days...4th was excellent lady vet who said Mai should have been on the operating table 3 days ago..her signs were so subtle, but we had a very close bond.She threatened to leave unless they operated..the SA partner did and she was in intensive care for 10 days while they tried to dissolve what they were unable to remove.Bad batch of B****** feed wiped out a stud of 17mares & foals in scotland the same week all to colic. My filly pulled thru despite an impaction & twist. Her adhesions were bad tho from the op & 7 colics a year finally resulted in her pts aged 6..part of me died with that filly she was so so precious to me, but it tought me one thing. You DO know more than your vets when it comes to knowing your own horse. Roll on my house selling so i can move back to Sussex to the lovely vets I had that held the most valuable veterinary degree ever...in the ability to listen & trust the owner. Wonder if I will be calm enough by monday to moan...I vote we all go in collectively & let them have it for all our horses sake!!;-/

 

[Dizzle]

Threads like this make me utterly grateful for my vets, had a similar issue with horse need stitches in the shoulder, senior partner came out and despite horse trying to climb the wall when injected he just talked soothingly to him.

The usual vet my horse nuzzles when she injects him, he's utterly in love with her and behaves like a gentleman when ever she does anything to him!

 

[YorksG]

So sorry to hear you lost the foal:-( and i think you are exactly right...he's a vet don't you know!I might have been covered in hay /mud/blood & starving & cold & creaky...but I know my horses..I trully do, just as you do and rightly stated about vets appreciating that. I once called a vet out in sussex who was watching South African Rugby match & told me to ring when i was less paranoid/having real emergency...he put her to sleep a week later for the grass sickness he thought was owner neurosis. Another mare, homebred 18mnths had 4 vets out from same practice over 3 days...4th was excellent lady vet who said Mai should have been on the operating table 3 days ago..her signs were so subtle, but we had a very close bond.She threatened to leave unless they operated..the SA partner did and she was in intensive care for 10 days while they tried to dissolve what they were unable to remove.Bad batch of B****** feed wiped out a stud of 17mares & foals in scotland the same week all to colic. My filly pulled thru despite an impaction & twist. Her adhesions were bad tho from the op & 7 colics a year finally resulted in her pts aged 6..part of me died with that filly she was so so precious to me, but it tought me one thing. You DO know more than your vets when it comes to knowing your own horse. Roll on my house selling so i can move back to Sussex to the lovely vets I had that held the most valuable veterinary degree ever...in the ability to listen & trust the owner. Wonder if I will be calm enough by monday to moan...I vote we all go in collectively & let them have it for all our horses sake!!;-/

I think all of us who have owned horses for a good few years will all have similar sad stories
The vet not knowing what is wrong, is not the problem, it is them not acknowleging that and not listening to the people who do know the horse and can usually describe in minute detail the signs and symptoms, which mean that the horse is not right.
I think you are right, we should all make a noise, would happily go in with you

 

[rockysmum]

What an idiot, not surprised you are furious.

Just a word in support of the non horsey vets at our practice anyway. In the snow last year my 35 year old got colic. All the horsey vets were out so I think the guy who came was a small animal one. He took on board my instructions to do what he could at home, but the horse wasn't going anywhere. Dealt with the distraught owner, me, was calm and lovely with my lad, didn't upset him at all. Spent a long time with us, saved my boy and the bill wasn't as bad as I was expecting.

 

[SaharaS]

Threads like this make me utterly grateful for my vets, had a similar issue with horse need stitches in the shoulder, senior partner came out and despite horse trying to climb the wall when injected he just talked soothingly to him.

The usual vet my horse nuzzles when she injects him, he's utterly in love with her and behaves like a gentleman when ever she does anything to him!

Exactly the prob here...back to my recent posts about spanish horses/sensitivity etc..not a single word of reassurance was uttered & no kind hand or touch to calm..I had to suggest it 'speak soothingly in breathy voice not demand in harsh rude voice & he might feel less stressed...oh funny it worked, shame too late! My boy is usually like that too..thank GOD he isn't Spanish then as i would really be in serious trouble!

I think all of us who have owned horses for a good few years will all have similar sad stories
The vet not knowing what is wrong, is not the problem, it is them not acknowleging that and not listening to the people who do know the horse and can usually describe in minute detail the signs and symptoms, which mean that the horse is not right.
I think you are right, we should all make a noise, would happily go in with you

Ok...I'm enroute to pick you up! You'll know its me...from the spa look...mud plastered with steam issuing from ears & nostrils!


In my crossness, have inadvertantly just eaten an entire tray of Budgens Tiramisu..all of it and it was a horrible shock when I put the last empty spoonfull in my mouth. Yes it was a family sized jumbo pack...

 

[YorksG]

Oh dear If I remember correctly (which I may not) carbohydrates release some sort of hormone which induces calm and can act as a soporophic, so it's all right and will help you sleep

 

[SaharaS]

I would take photos and make a written account of the evenings events then phone ask for another vet tomorrow, then make a formal complaint to the practice manager on Monday, hope you get it sorted and the horse is alright, sounds terrible service to me I would be leaping up and down on them if it was my horse.

Poor boy was so upset he was cuddling into me on opposite side yet was too worried to let me even take pic from foot away.groom back in morning to help me do penicillin,sure he'll be fine but almost prefer to have a witness that was there from start...we'll spend an hour fussing & playing nice treat/games to make it a positive experience and hopefully the next 5 days of jabs will have any doubts of his totally calmed..he's the only vet on call all weeknd & practice manager is secretary/nurse too so am going to speak to the partners...one knows me well & think will make time to fix things the other battled to save my boy in aug 2010, sadly never made it(Eq Atypical Myeopathy)but there were several good attempts made for every possible option other than operating as he was too sick to get up-worked flat out for 4 hours and bill was less than a prebooked routine injection/sedation..for EVERYthing and his being pts but not for want of trying.

SaharaS, where are you based? We had that type of issue a number of years ago,we ended up paying £500 twice We changed practice just after that!

Wildest west...tho he came from yourpart of the world!Hmmm...moved far enough not to be hunted down? makes you wonder why they move to odd small areas when originating from well defined larger areas...would no one have him i wonder!! I do hope you were reimbursed? tho doesn't sound as tho you were...

I had a similar issue with a woman vet several years ago. She was useless. 4.30 in the morning with a foal that had no suckle reflex.
I know she was in bed when I called and when she arrived - a good hour later, she had more makeup on than Barbara Cartland. She couldn't get a feeding tube down the foal (I did it in the end) Couldn't sedate the mare because she couldn't find the jugular (this was a Shire mare) so I could milk her out and was talking all sorts of crap about the actual foaling (which had been fine)

I complained to the practise and never received a bill.

Fortunately I am experienced enough, old enough and have a large amount of horses that the very good practise we use now know that if I say it is an emergency they come and if they disagree with what I think, give some very good reasons for their argument!

this is like my last (nice) Sussex vets... makes all the difference-the twit this eve wouldn't even let me hold the used needle he chucked on my boys hay..incase I left it around inappropriately(in his neck!) My argument is that I'm clearly the owner & clearly sole charge and mine are mostly TBs only a fraction of one isn't and its a mini fraction...its not like I have pigtails & an i love my poneeeeee matching jumpsuit & coat with mittens strung through my sleeves...I'm 29 plus vat & don't own a yard full of leg in each corner first ponies-its liek car insurance...always wishing you are older to get taken seriously...why oh why did I move!! if i have meds for horses & sheep/goats/bison merrily handed over by every other vet in practice including this practice & innocs capable too..and am unquestioningly issued a box of 100 bute to have on the yard...i think I am quite capable of disposing of a used needle!(which I was putting into a sharps pot infront of him!)makes me laugh that he does not own a horse...or care for one..says it all..I think i will discreetly swap names with you FH as we are near enough to need to know..huge sigh..I hope your foal was ok...i would have taken her down a peg or too for priorities i think..the worry is with tubing if they don't get it right and enter the lung...doesn't bare thinking about...VERY glad & relieved to hear you did not get charged..

What an idiot, not surprised you are furious.

Just a word in support of the non horsey vets at our practice anyway. In the snow last year my 35 year old got colic. All the horsey vets were out so I think the guy who came was a small animal one. He took on board my instructions to do what he could at home, but the horse wasn't going anywhere. Dealt with the distraught owner, me, was calm and lovely with my lad, didn't upset him at all. Spent a long time with us, saved my boy and the bill wasn't as bad as I was expecting.

That is the difference between a genuine vet and one that LOVES the power kick yet is all wind & no sail...well done vet , you & pony!hope he's doing well & going strong xx

 

[SaharaS]

Oh dear If I remember correctly (which I may not) carbohydrates release some sort of hormone which induces calm and can act as a soporophic, so it's all right and will help you sleep

Good as i had it on an empty stomach while adrenalin was very much still kicked in...plus my dynamite fuse well & trully lit....oh and I think it was a rather alcoholic tiramisu at that!...if nothing else will give the vet a good head start in his getaway I just checked...it was a 900g one! oops!

 

[Moomin1]

Confused by your post? What are you angry about, the fact that the vet disagreed with you on stitching? Or the fact that he dropped stuff?

 

[Marydoll]

Confused by your post? What are you angry about, the fact that the vet disagreed with you on stitching? Or the fact that he dropped stuff?

Seriously, did you read the post ?
The vets attitude appears to have been stinking from the start, and from what the op describes, dismissive and downright rude to her.
They failed at the first hurdle unable to find a vein to sedate then by not listening to the op on how to deal with her horse, put them all at risk.
To throw a needle into horses hay is sheer stupidity im sure any numpty would know not to do that, i personally wouldnt see anyone behaving in this manner in my road or near my horse

 

[Clippy]

It's made me angry too The clue was in the first visit when he couldn't microchip! I don't think i'd have had him on the yard again after that. To me he sounds scared of horses.

Bet you can't wait for the bill! I'd be shoving it where the sun don't shine!

 

[MrsMozartletoe]

Yikes lass! Sorry to hear you and your lad and groom had such a time of it

I've had the same vet since getting our first horse. She's a star. A busy star to be sure, but a star nonetheless. She might often think I'm a nut, but she does listen to me and she knows me almost as well as she knows my horses

Ditto YoksG . The carbs should help . Don't worry about the calories - I should think the amount of energy you've expended will more than compensate

Definitely get onto a senior partner soonest.

When I had my St Bernard I had to complain twice to that vet practice's SP. Once I had a vet who managed to upset the most docile trusting dog in the world with his rough handling and incompressible blabber; and the other was a vet who took fifteen goes to get an injection right! My poor dog . I told him to stop and go find someone who knew what they were doing . When I lost her to bloat, the SP was lying on the floor with her and me, crying almost as much as I was.

 

[scarymare]

I understand why you are angry. I know from my own bitter experience though that a badly stitched wound from a crap vet is worse than leaving it open. You've still got plenty of time, I know if I ever have a bad injury again, I'll be making horse comfortable and then getting it transported down to Edinburgh. Apparently is perfectly possible to graduate without much wound experience, just depends what comes into the hospital during your time there. Nightmare.

 

[SaharaS]

Seriously, did you read the post ?
The vets attitude appears to have been stinking from the start, and from what the op describes, dismissive and downright rude to her.
They failed at the first hurdle unable to find a vein to sedate then by not listening to the op on how to deal with her horse, put them all at risk.
To throw a needle into horses hay is sheer stupidity im sure any numpty would know not to do that, i personally wouldnt see anyone behaving in this manner in my road or near my horse

Thank you Marydoll xx...Moomin1..please see above & re-read op!;-) Vet was incompetent/rude & failed to do everything he was called to do(anything) after upsetting my otherwise gentle calm horse & left leaving him untreated & was totally incapable of administering use of his own brain cell let alone treating an animal..or giving injections..to clarify M1...my groom & I did everything ourselves.

Going off to eat the lid of tiramisu incase I missed any;-(

 

[debsg]

Hope you don't get colic after all that tiramisu + stress, SaharaS.
Agree with everyone else, the vet is obviously an incompetent tw*t! Strong letter of complaint to the senior partner asap. Thank goodness you also have your groom as a witness.

 

[SaharaS]

It's made me angry too The clue was in the first visit when he couldn't microchip! I don't think i'd have had him on the yard again after that. To me he sounds scared of horses.

Bet you can't wait for the bill! I'd be shoving it where the sun don't shine!

Didn't realise it was him till he turned up...& totally agree he is scared of horses..he has the face of someone who would make me to reenact Dragonslayers signature!REPEATEDLY!Roll on monday!

Yikes lass! Sorry to hear you and your lad and groom had such a time of it
I've had the same vet since getting our first horse. She's a star. A busy star to be sure, but a star nonetheless. She might often think I'm a nut, but she does listen to me and she knows me almost as well as she knows my horses

believe me...I'm coming to steal her!it doesn't matter if they do think you are a nut..as long as they listen.they get paid to listen...you are very lucky

Ditto YoksG . The carbs should help . Don't worry about the calories - I should think the amount of energy you've expended will more than compensate

Definitely get onto a senior partner soonest.

thank you-have tiramisuI will be sat on their doorstep first thing to catch the right one believe me..the practice is only800yards from my house!


When I had my St Bernard I had to complain twice to that vet practice's SP. Once I had a vet who managed to upset the most docile trusting dog in the world with his rough handling and incompressible blabber; and the other was a vet who took fifteen goes to get an injection right! My poor dog . I told him to stop and go find someone who knew what they were doing . When I lost her to bloat, the SP was lying on the floor with her and me, crying almost as much as I was.

So sorry to hear this, Rest in Peace poor doglet I do feel for you but does make it easier to cope when you know they have feelings even after a hardened career front to wear, hope you have been ok..its bad enough to cope with when they don't mess up ((hugs& cake)) I had one vet out once to give oestrogen injection to 2 tb mares..he messed up and OD'd taking the 6 inch step up into stable into their size & gave each well in excess of the usual 1mg..promptly left & when i had to call him back within 10 mins as both had dropped down with colic, he had to go home to get his vet manual to know how to treat them!lets just say he nearly got pts(punched to sleep) but thankfully both mares were ok in the end ...couldn't report to SP as he was the sp..tho I soon after found he was no longer in practice..just liked to quote:keep his hand in for the thrill of it..*lots of eye rolling & eek faces*

I understand why you are angry. I know from my own bitter experience though that a badly stitched wound from a crap vet is worse than leaving it open. You've still got plenty of time, I know if I ever have a bad injury again, I'll be making horse comfortable and then getting it transported down to Edinburgh. Apparently is perfectly possible to graduate without much wound experience, just depends what comes into the hospital during your time there. Nightmare.

this is true...thank you for pointing this out-i've been very lucky to date..with only exceptional vets for stitching circumstances, but very good point & totally agree..some are so full of wind they they are too busy being clever opening the bag of cotton wool hero style to be effective..*really not swoon* my trailer was stolen so first on the saving agenda is new one or lorry -and moving back to sensible vet country!bit like putting a driver in a formula one car tho he has only played with dinky toys & then loading the car with explosive..or the same as with us& the post code lottery with which types of illness/condition are treated better in particular parts of the country/world..sad old state isn't it..in future I will always be testing out new vets with extreme caution & even investing in a call out for something minor that i would comfortably treat myself,the theory being it is false economy to risk a beloved pets life when it really is crunch time xx

DebsG...'like'!!! don't worry..lined tummy with custard creams first!x

 

[MrsMozartletoe]

Sorry, you can't have her, she's mine! Mine I tell you! *manic cackle*

 

[rockysmum]

It doesn't sound like its worth actually changing vets, no point in being worse off. You just need them to promise that this vet will never be sent to you again.

As you will need to be totally calm before confronting them, I will pass on a tip given to me by a few of my staff when I was feeling the same

I have absolutely no idea whether it works, I would feel too much of a prat actually trying it

Apparently the way to deal with all stressful situations is not to rant but to sit and chant. They even gave me a card with the chant written on it. It can work just to read it according to them.

If it works better than tiramisu, let me know, I'm going to need something over the next few weeks

All you do is chant this over and over Om Mani Padme Hum

And take a video to share with us.

Hows your horse today.

 

[Jesstickle]

This reminds of the the day ( a long time ago when I was still with a mixed practise not an equine only one which I'm with now, who are fab) that I called the vet out and could only get a junior vet as the horse vet was on holiday.

Horse had an abscess but was bad enough with it to need some painkillers so went for the vet over the farrier so I only needed to call one person. Big mistake. Vet came and tried to pare it out, horse was a bit fidgety but nothing that would have bothered the horse vet. So she sedated it, fine. Still couldn't do it as every time the horse did so much as flinch she would jump six foot in the air and drop the hoof. So then she nerve blocked the thing at the fetlock. She still didn't get anything out of the foot! It was nuts. Sadly I was younger then and shy so didn't have the bottle to tell her to just leave it Some vets just aren't comfortable round horses, and that's fine. But why not just say that?

Hope your horse is ok today OP

 

[Fools Motto]

With OP and Foxhunter in my area, I hope they are not the vets that I;m registered with!

Hope your horse OP is on the mend.
Many hugs.