Will he Fit? Trailer.

alainax

alainax

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Hey :) Dont we have a trailer subsection? Or am i being too blonde to find it :o


So I bought my big boy last week and was casually browsing trailer ads when I seen one I like.

I just have the one horse, a big car (not 4x4) and I dotn have my B+E.

Hence, single trailers really appeal to me.

Ive found one near by at a decent price, but dont know much about it -
http://www.towinghorsetrailers.co.uk/trailer/1061


Trailer -
Max gross weight - 1400 kg
Unlaiden weight - 590.00 kg
Weight capacity - 810 kg

Internal dimensions : height - 2.21 m
Internal dimensions : width - 1.24 m
Internal dimensions : length - 2.86 m


Horse -
He was sold to me as 16.2, vet reckons the same, YO thinks closer to 16.3 and saddler fitter thinks 16.1.

He takes a 7ft rug and is a bit of a chunk.

The trailer says up to 16.2, im thinking he might just be too big :confused:

At a very rough guess id say around 650-700kgs.


The car -
Weight - 1436 kg
Unbraked Towing Weight - 725 kg
Braked Towing Weight - 1500 kg



So he would come under the tailers weight capacity

Total weight of horse and trailer are less than the cars actual weight and cars braked towing capacity. 700kgs+590kgs = 1290kgs.



and all of the above have a combined weight of less than 3.5k.


Ill have made a mistake there somewhere for sure :p


Looking at the numbers it seems ok, but will he actually fit in it? :confused:

Or best waiting to find one a bit bigger.
 
Personally I wouldn't put a big horse in a single horse trailer. Too unstable.
Secondly I wouldn't put a big horse in a single trailer that weighs less than the horse!!... too unstable ...and who is going to hold who upright???!

Thirdly I would NOT tow a big horse with a non 4x4 car. No matter how big it is.

horses tend to be able to sense when something doesn't feel safe, which can lead to them travelling badly (my boy did in my friends trailer having Never travelled badly before... I could feel why for myself - the trailer itself was flimsy and the car didn't have the power to tow...)

Yours sounds like an increadibly big horse - on parr with my 17.2hh boy who is also in 7ft rugs.

I have an IFOR 510 which gives my boy ample head room plus room sideways, forwards and back. I would seriously consider saving your pennies and investingin a suitable towing vehicle and better quality trailer for your precious new friend :)
 
CBFan said:
Personally I wouldn't put a big horse in a single horse trailer. Too unstable.
Secondly I wouldn't put a big horse in a single trailer that weighs less than the horse!!... too unstable ...and who is going to hold who upright???!

Thirdly I would NOT tow a big horse with a non 4x4 car. No matter how big it is.

horses tend to be able to sense when something doesn't feel safe, which can lead to them travelling badly (my boy did in my friends trailer having Never travelled badly before... I could feel why for myself - the trailer itself was flimsy and the car didn't have the power to tow...)

Yours sounds like an increadibly big horse - on parr with my 17.2hh boy who is also in 7ft rugs.

I have an IFOR 510 which gives my boy ample head room plus room sideways, forwards and back. I would seriously consider saving your pennies and investingin a suitable towing vehicle and better quality trailer for your precious new friend :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply. Im in not in any rush at all, but wont be buying a new car any time soon!

I Guess Ill stick to my origional plan of hiring one of the more spacious 3.5t horseboxs closer to the time :)
 
I usually do these weight/licence vehicle/trailer issues in the towing clinic (link in signature below) but as this involves size and I have no experience of that then I'll answer it here :D

The trailer seems to be a cheval liberte and all my previous experiences of the unladen weight have been 655 kgs not 590 kgs so that is a cause for concern - maybe it has been made lighter in some way ???!!!
I do not think if it is 655 that will be an issue with your weights (655+700=1355)

For B licence towing.....

The one important figure missing is the GVW of the towing vehicle (???? kgs)

Towing vehicle GVW (???? kgs) added to the trailer plated MAM (1400 kgs) must not exceed 3500 kgs

Trailer plated MAM (1400) must not be more than vehicle kerbweight (1436) so that is OK :)


Recently there has been a thread discussing the use of non 4X4 type vehicles for towing but no major safety issues were reported by any member.
There was however advice on the type of terrian in which non 4X4s should be used such as tarmac roads and the like due to possible/probable issues with traction

Consider carefully on what type of terrain you wish to use this combination on and how stable it is likely to be in all sorts of conditions
 
Your big horse is similarly sized to my big mare - 16.3 at withers and bum, and with a long neck, in 6'9 to 7' rugs, weighing in at 685Kg.

She is a very good traveller but she is also extremely opinionated on how she travels. She is perfect in a lorry, provided the partitions are set wide enough for her (if not she'll trash the place), she loathes travelling rear-facing in a 3.5 tonner (will not stand still), is ok in double trailers (she is a wide girl!) but in a single Ifor Williams 401 she travels just as well as she does in my lorry. I think we were both very impressed and I would not hesitate to travel her in one. In fact if I found one at a good price I'd be tempted to buy it:D
 
ROG said:
I usually do these weight/licence vehicle/trailer issues in the towing clinic (link in signature below) but as this involves size and I have no experience of that then I'll answer it here :D

The trailer seems to be a cheval liberte and all my previous experiences of the unladen weight have been 655 kgs not 590 kgs so that is a cause for concern - maybe it has been made lighter in some way ???!!!
I do not think if it is 655 that will be an issue with your weights (655+700=1355)
Click to expand...
Hey Rog, thanks for the reply :)

I did think it looked very much like the Cheval Liberte, Martlin has mentioned below that its a rebranded version :) I just took the weights etc info from the website i linked.
ROG said:
For B licence towing.....

The one important figure missing is the GVW of the towing vehicle (???? kgs)

Towing vehicle GVW (???? kgs) added to the trailer plated MAM (1400 kgs) must not exceed 3500 kgs

Trailer plated MAM (1400) must not be more than vehicle kerbweight (1436) so that is OK :)
Click to expand...

gah! I knew id have missed somthing! Parkers wont tell me the GVW :p just "weight". Guess I will have to get off my ass and go look in the car ;)

ROG said:
Recently there has been a thread discussing the use of non 4X4 type vehicles for towing but no major safety issues were reported by any member.
There was however advice on the type of terrian in which non 4X4s should be used such as tarmac roads and the like due to possible/probable issues with traction

Consider carefully on what type of terrain you wish to use this combination on and how stable it is likely to be in all sorts of conditions
Click to expand...

The road to the horses Livery is very good tarmac road, but I guess it would mean me investigating what the entrance lanes to the shows are like - thanks for that heads up :)

martlin said:
He should fit in it OK. Just to let you know, the Requisite trailers are Cheval Liberte rebranded for Robinsons :)
Click to expand...

I had really liked the look of the Cheval Liberte trailers, but seem to be so very rare!

Im just concerned about him though, as hes only 5 and has the possibilty that he will grow and fill out. If I know My car can pull it, my licence allows it... but will the poor bugger feel like a sardine? :confused::o
 
alainax said:
Im just concerned about him though, as hes only 5 and has the possibilty that he will grow and fill out. If I know My car can pull it, my licence allows it... but will the poor bugger feel like a sardine? :confused::o
Click to expand...

At just 5 he WILL grow and fill out so buy bigger than you need at present. I wouldn't be suprised if he finished at 17hh.
 
martlin said:
Just to let you know, the Requisite trailers are Cheval Liberte rebranded for Robinsons :)
Click to expand...
I just called Cheval Liberte and they informed me that the Requisite is a GT1 without the usual extras/frills so that could easily reduced the unladen weight
 
CBFan said:
At just 5 he WILL grow and fill out so buy bigger than you need at present. I wouldn't be suprised if he finished at 17hh.
Click to expand...

:eek: How am i ever supposed to get on then! :p:o

ROG said:
I just called Cheval Liberte and they informed me that the Requisite is a GT1 without the usual extras/frills so that could easily reduced the unladen weight
Click to expand...

Oh wow thanks for that, really useful information :) :cool:

Dee O'Dorant said:
Your big horse is similarly sized to my big mare - 16.3 at withers and bum, and with a long neck, in 6'9 to 7' rugs, weighing in at 685Kg.

She is a very good traveller but she is also extremely opinionated on how she travels. She is perfect in a lorry, provided the partitions are set wide enough for her (if not she'll trash the place), she loathes travelling rear-facing in a 3.5 tonner (will not stand still), is ok in double trailers (she is a wide girl!) but in a single Ifor Williams 401 she travels just as well as she does in my lorry. I think we were both very impressed and I would not hesitate to travel her in one. In fact if I found one at a good price I'd be tempted to buy it:D
Click to expand...
Oh thats interesting to know. I had read that many horses prefer them as they are a bit wider in the stall than a double box.
ROG said:
The GVW for your vehicle should also be on the V5 registered keepers document - look for a figure around 1900/2000 kgs
Click to expand...

Its not :( I looked really hard :D
 
Cheval Liberte trailers now come with an alluminium floor, the one in your link has a wooden floor. For an extra £100 I'd hunt down a proper Cheval Liberte Gold One mare and foal trailer.
 
ROG said:
On the V5 document what does it say in section F1 max permissable mass ?
Click to expand...
Its blank :(
9tails said:
Cheval Liberte trailers now come with an alluminium floor, the one in your link has a wooden floor. For an extra £100 I'd hunt down a proper Cheval Liberte Gold One mare and foal trailer.
Click to expand...
Oh thats good information, thank you. Ill keep my eye out for one of them. The one I saw advertised was at a really good price, but maybe a reason if the floors are wooden could be rotten.
CBFan said:
Take up yoga or become acustomed to getting on from anything, anywhere ;p...Think yourself lucky.. my boy is 17.2 at 5 years old!!
Click to expand...

:D:D:D:D we are just getting used to our bright purple mounting block :p
 
ROG said:
NEAR ENOUGH
Kerb 1436
GVW 1940
Towing 1500

Trailer
Unladen 590
MAM 1400

Max load for trailer = 810

Legal for B licence towing
GVW 1940 + MAM 1400 = 3340 so not over 3500 limit
MAM 1400 is not more than 1436 kerb
Click to expand...

Rog, your awesome :D I wish there was a way to give plus rep on this forum :o

So in theory it all works and is legal? its just really if the horse will fit inside cmfortably :)
 
If you are pushing the limits of the size of the trailer, dont worry about the horses height at the withers, measure his normal head height.

I had to buy a 510 for our warmblood, even though she should have fit in a 2 x 16.2hh. She carries her head high and her ears were squashed on the roof, she had to duck when going in from the ramp. Fortunately she is good to travel so it wasn't the end of the world.

Single trailers are usually wider than half a double so you should be OK with that.

Other issue is length. My oldie is smaller than yours but takes a 6'9" rug. In a 2 x 16.2hh trailer he was squashed in front to back. It made him bad to load, now I have the 510 he runs up the ramp.

I wont comment on the towing side of it :rolleyes:
 
OK, if you insist :D

OP my view, which is not shared by many I'm afraid, is that towing so close to your limit is not safe. That doesn't mean you need a 4 x 4, just something which is more up to the job than most cars.

IMHO a very large horse like yours, in a single trailer behind a car, would easily become unstable.

We saw the report of the horse going nuts and the poor man dying this week. Just think what your horse doing the same in a single trailer would do to the stability of your car. The horse is heavier than the trailer.

In addition a very heavy horse might increase the noseweight of your trailer and stop it towing level, this can cause snaking. Also is the suspension on the rear of your car up to the weight, especially if the horse moves around.

And then there is the clutch, not designed in most cases for towing heavy loads on rough ground or hills. Might be OK if you live somewhere flat and only tow on tarmac.

I wont even comment on motorway driving with your outfit, I dont want to think about it.

So sorry but thats what I think :o

Blame Rog :)
 
I really appreaciate all the answers and opinions. :)

The legal ones, the if he will fit ones and the opinion on safety all are super important.

I pull around my show car on its trailer and a motorbike one too, and even when I do this I am very concerend about if everything is strapped down, all going to be safe etc - so I think when its going to be my handsome big boy involved If there was a chance that it might not be safe, or even pushing the upper limits of what the car /trailer combo are possible of... I guess id be best to avoid it.

I know for sure I wont be buying a new car anytime soon, let alone a double trailer. So looks like I will be hiring. :)
 
I looked at the Cheval trailers and felt they were poorly made and quite flimsy, the new one at a dealers, the ramp wouldn't shut! Please also bear in mind that for unstability, your horse being that tall has a high centre of gravity, in a single lightweight trailer that could be a real issue.
 
Hi Alainax, I think maybe you have the right idea to be considering hiring a horsebox.
I tow a Rice Rosette with our 16.3hh/17hh in. He fits in it fine, plenty of headroom. He travels well and is always keen to get in!
However, theres a real difference between towing a fixed object like a motorbike or car and the liveweight of a horse. The horse shifts around and you can really feel it. I tow with an old Landrover Defender which is well within it's limits, but it is still a bit unnerving to feel the movement.

Hope you get the towing setup you want eventually!
 
Borrowed from a friend on another forum, just for fun This is a Landy with a trailer loaded up to its limit, it is legal :D

picture.php




And this is what happens when the weight moves :D :D :D















picture.php
 
If the car I've seen at the yard is the one you're talking about, there is no way I would tow your horse with a vehicle that size.*

*The caveat to anything I say is that my mind boggles in horror whenever I see people towing horse trailers with estate cars or smallish 4x4s, because being American, I cannot fathom anyone towing any average sized equid with anything much smaller than this (which is what I used to have...*sniff*): http://static.cargurus.com/images/s..._extended_cab_sb-pic-3107709257471533655.jpeg.

In other words, I completely agree with Rockysmum. I had a mate who was towing two horses with a Ford Explorer, which apparently was within that vehicle's legal limit in at least the state of Connecticut. Most people in the US don't haul horses with vehicles like this -- they use huge pickups like the one above. Anyway, the trailer started fishtailing on the motorway, jacknifed, flipped on its side and flipped the car on its back. Amazingly, my friends and the horses were all fine (car and trailer, not so much). Very lucky. The accident was attributed to the vehicle not being big or heavy enough to do what it was doing.

If towing a trailer, especially with a horse the size of your lad or even mine, I'd want to be well within what the manufacturer or DVLA says is kosher for the vehicle to haul.
 
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