Will she ever get better?

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Lucy_Ally

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I have had Springy 10 months now and when I bought her I was made fully aware of her bad manners and how bad she was to handle. She used to drag me around and charge off all the time when being led and I had to handle her in a chiffney to start off with for her own and my safety. I have spent a lot of time and effort instilling manners in her and she now respects personal space, backs up/moves over when asked and 9 times out of 10 leads very well. However this morning when turning her out she set off in gallop throught the gateway and took me by surprise, nothing spooked her and she had very calmly walked to the field. I went to catch her and walk her back to the gate as I don't want her thinking that she can get away with that and she let me catch her fine, but then started titting about and wound the other horses up and proceeded to pull me over
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I have strained all the muscles in my arms and ended up covered in mud
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I was furious and had to walk away and let the horses and myself calm down. I went back about 5 minutes later and caught her fine, walked her out of the field ok with only a slight hint at being a cowbag which was quickly nipped in the bud, then worked her on the lunge till she was really sweaty and tired more to make me feel better to be honest!! After the work she was as good as gold.

So feeling very frustrated, will she ever stop this trying to drag me around? I feel that 99% of the time she respects me but she just seems to forget herself every now and then (the last time was in September) and do as she pleases. She has been allowed to get away with murder in the past and knows exactly how to use her strength against me. The pressure halter helps enormously, I wouldn't have got her in without it, but I was hoping to downgrade to a "normal" headcollar one day without fear of her taking someone skiing in the mud.

Sorry a bit of a moan and not a great start to 2007, lets hope things only get better!
 
My old jumping pony was exacly the same - his favourite trick was to gallop through is stable door the second he knew you had undone the bolt - in general he was a little bugger with serious manner problems.

He also won over £400 with me, was amazing, and I loved him to bits. I forgave his hideous manners....because he was great at shows.

You sound like you have pretty much mastered Spring - good on you! I would forgive her a few blips...
 
Hey

It sounds like you've made fantastic progress and you have a good bond, you have to think of this as a 'blip'.

Good vibes sent your way...horses don't know this was the new year she was probably just having an off day!

Good luck x
 
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what breed is she?
was she bottle-fed as a foal?


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She is 1/2 TB, 1/4 irish draught and 1/4 welsh D
She was reared on her dam as far as I know, she just had a very novicey owner from being newly broken to when she was sent away to be sold aged 8 (when I bought her).
 
Well novices can be intimidated by half a tonne of horse, so it may be a case that she learnt that she could pretty much do what she liked with the owner being too scared to correct her and nip it in the bud at the start.

It sounds as if you're doing a great job. Staying calm is (in my opinion) really important when dealing with horses who can be a bit of a handful. Have you thought of doing join-up? I read a Kelly Marks book a while ago and although I don't agree with everything that she said, some of it (when tried) seemed to do some good and join-up is known for having good results. I think Tia does it or knows about it so it would be worth asking her.
 
You need a full twelve months with them before you can say you are anywhere near getting to know them. Then you can start with the niggles! On a serious note, it sounds like she has been doing this for a long time and you are nearly on top of it. I say keep going and what you did today didn't do her any harm. Mine got two hacks up the road and a jolly good session in the paddock for bad behaviour today -and I have had him five years! Nil desperandum
 
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Well novices can be intimidated by half a tonne of horse, so it may be a case that she learnt that she could pretty much do what she liked with the owner being too scared to correct her and nip it in the bud at the start.

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Yep thats exactly it and she also knows every trick in the book to try and get her own way - I am constantly having to outwit her! Lol!

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Staying calm is (in my opinion) really important when dealing with horses who can be a bit of a handful. Have you thought of doing join-up? I read a Kelly Marks book a while ago and although I don't agree with everything that she said, some of it (when tried) seemed to do some good and join-up is known for having good results. I think Tia does it or knows about it so it would be worth asking her.

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Yes, this is how I have taught her manners by using body language and sending her away when she is rude or bolshy, there is really no point in getting angry or smacking her - she just gets more stroppy! I actually did join up on the lunge with her today (I don't have access to a round pen) after she was naughty to re-affirm that I am actually higher in the pecking order and command some respect (I just didn't write that as thought it would get poo-pooed!), I then went back to basics and asked for stopping turning backing up etc to remind her what is expected of her. I work a lot with body language and freezing her out and ignoring her when she is rude and it works a treat, she can really frustrate me and I have to walk away and calm down so I don't lose my temper. I was just hoping that she had learnt enough by now not to continue dragging me around
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Edit to say: she endded up sweaty and tired as she was the one messing around on the lunge line rather than me hammering her around, it was her choice how long the join up would take!
 
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Its an irish thing. Touchy is usually the easiest horse to deal but every once in a while she just goes on one is wooden stubborn and downright rude! At least its getting less frequent!
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Great, lots more stroppiness to look forward to!
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Well when it comes to handling horses I'm certainly not great and to be honest I rely on what wiser and cleverer people than me have told me and what I've read to see me straight. BUT, it sounds to me as if you are doing exactly the right thing!

May be worthwhile doing the join-up on her once a week just so she doesn't forget the pecking order.
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I would hazard it's the Welsh in her rather than the Irish (IMHO) my welsh mare and her foal both knew their own strength..and used it when it suited. Incidentally I was talking to a friend about her Hanovarian who used to tow people about when I was at livery at her yard 12 years ago ...and he still does it when in the mood (sorry!)
 
Hmm its probably the welsh D in her! Mine could be a right stroppy madam too! Throwing toys out of the pram!

It sounds like you have come on leaps and bounds with her and well done for gettng so far, you havent backtracked or anything, she was just having a naughty day by the sounds of it!

Keep up the good work!
 
Yeah but you're are making great improvements!! She's had years of getting her own way whenever she wanted!! You're trying to completely undo what she thought of as normal until you got her! Think about what she was like when you got her......you have made a big difference and your methods are working!

How's that for a pep-talk ?
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Yeah but you're are making great improvements!! She's had years of getting her own way whenever she wanted!! You're trying to completely undo what she thought of as normal until you got her! Think about what she was like when you got her......you have made a big difference and your methods are working!

How's that for a pep-talk ?
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Lol! Thanks
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I now feel thoroughly pepped!
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I have never had a particularly bad mannered or difficult horse before so maybe I expect too much too soon. I just loathe bad mannered horses and refuse to own one!!!
 
Hmm, I am not sure. I have had a pure welsh before and he was a saint. I know they are opinonated and usually have big personalities but thats what I like about them! Spring has a very large personality and like most mares a mind of her own, however when she challenges me I think I am definitley the most stroppy and determined of either of us!
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Yes do persevere. One of our mares started being near impossible to turn out, she knocked all of us over and even with a chiffney on bolted like a maniac. eventually we twigged it was the straps on her rug round her legs that were terrifying her, we removed them, and slowly she got back to normal. of course she never wears them now. She was however damned dangerous for almost a year, and now is perfectly ok again. At one point my husband wrapped the lunge line round the gatepost to stop her in her tracks we were so desperate, once she stopped bolting we let her go quietly .
You have come on huge steps from the first problems, jus always ensureyou tun outwith a lunge line and pressure halter, that way even if she bombs off you have a chance of pulling her off balance and gaining control.
Good luck.
 
Thanks HH. The thing is this is the first time she has done this, she has been a cowbag to bring in or walk from the stable to the field or vice versa but has always stood quietly to let me take the headcollar off when turning out. She is most definitley not scared just arsey
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But I think I will turn her out with a lunge line for a while in case she tries this again.

I can see she has improved, I guess I want her to be perfect all the time which is unrealistic. But when she is so good most of the time the bad bits are magnified!
 
Hunny, please remember this!! YOU are the best thing that ever happened to Spring!! (Well F being on here and you guys discussing her was too, but you get my drift) Can you even imagine what she'd be like with someone less able and knowledgable than you!!?? F would not have let her go to an incompetant and what you have achieved with her in a relatively short period of time is fanbloodytastic!!! I say relatively short period of time, because lets face it, she's learned this behaviour from a young age and she's now how old? One day, yes I do think you will be able to just use a regular headcollar with her, but not yet, not by a long shot!! You have worked so hard to instill a modicum of manners in her, but 10 months, compared to her age, is a very short period of time!!! Don't loose heart hun! You'll get there, by hook or by crook!
 
Totally agree with you Isobel.

I had some handling issues with Patches, rearing for the farrier and being generally nowty to lead.

The last 4 or 5 months have seen massive improvements all around. She's so much more calm and chilled now than she was with me. Trust, respect and a good bond take time for form on both sides. I have every faith with your consistent handling that Spring will continue to make improvements. Sounds like you've done a fabby job so far.

I mean look at Patches....best behaved of all of mine now to shoe and I can even clip her...the horse that was VERY dangerous in close proximity to switched OFF clippers!
 
Thanks guys, I know she has improved and most of the time life with her is great and we do actually have quite a close relationship, she is very affectionate and greets me with a whinny and a sort of delighted expression! Lol or I may be imagining it! Often when she has been naughty she is almost relieved to be disciplined as then she knows where she stands and is peaceful and good as gold. However my arms ache like hell now and I guess I am feeling a bit sorry for myself! I do worry about other people doing things with her in case she hurst someone
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but I can't physically be there every hour of every day so her manners have to improve for everyone's sake.
 
My horse can be exactly like yours, he has great manners but he was in a lot of pain from a problem with his back and learnt some really nasty behaviour habits like barging straight through me which stayed with him. He walked me through a barbed wire fence and cut my leg open etc etc. just to give you an idea. I had trained him using the Kelly Marks Perfect Manners book which was superb and so I bought the Monty Roberts pressure Halter and had a couple of handling lessons when he got to his worst just to reinforce a bit of self discipline. He is now not in pain and a gem most of the time but like your ned will have the odd hissy fit which I accept is just him having a bad day once in a blue moon when he tries to throw his weight around (typical stubborn connemara!), I am now always able to nip it in the bud, I can tell from his body language when he is going to have a try.

All I can say is that you have done exactly the right thing so far and if you just make sure you are consistent and fair in your handling and that you accept you will have the odd off day and don't take it personally I think you will eventually get there. Ryan's off days are becoming rarer and rarer and it sounds to me as though you are doing a very good job at becoming herd leader for your horse. Good luck - by the way my horse is now in a normal headcollar but when he decides to have a bad day he goes back in the pressure halter for a week as a reminder. The monty roberts halter can also be used as a normal headcollar
 
It just takes time really...as someone mentioned earlier...it's just a blip. Unfortunately once a horse has been allowed to get away with things and knows their strength...in my opinion...it will always be there in the background to surface now and again. My boy is like it (Welsh D)...he is great and has learn't manners over many months of work, but if he has one of his drama queen moments or has been upset by something...the old rudeness comes back to light. I have accepted that he is what he is and as a consequence I lead him at all times in a bridle. I am a firm believer in avoiding problems where possible and at least if something out of the ordinary happens...I automatically have more control.
You did the right thing by walking away to calm down..I learn't the hard way that losing my rag just made him all the worse! Keep going, it just takes time and a tonne of patience!!!
 
How old is she? Apart from anything else, she is a mare, which can add an element of unpredictability. She may have been wound up by fireworks from NYE, I know ours were unsettled for a couple of days after Nov 5th. You did absolutely the right thing not letting her get away with it. Sadly nobody can answer your question, but it does sound more like high spirits and naughtiness rather than nastiness, which I would be much more concerned about. Always wear a hat and gloves when turning out and bringing in...
 
It is NOT an Irish thing! I've had as mant bad mannered lumps from the UK and further afield as I have Irish bred ones.

It p*sses me off when people make sweeping statements like that
 
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I am sure she is a model of good manners with everyone else, just like children!
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Sadly not, if anything she can be worse for other people!
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Part of the problem yesterday I think stems from the fact that she has been handled by other people a lot over christmas as I was away and not everyne is as strict with her as I am.

I feel like I am 102 today, it took me ages to get my socks on this morning! Ouchies - bloody horse
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