Will she ever stop flinching?

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Beatrice5

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I am slightly frustrated so apologise now.

Has Trixie nearly 2 years, always treated her calmly and carefully as she had a bad past don't know exactly what went wrong but have heard stories of the people she passed through in her short life.

I have been bringing her in a night since we moved across the road and gentle getting her used to being handled more. Gently touching her in a firm so not to tickle but reassuring manner. Been doing it this way for 2 years and still she has her good days and bad days.

This evening she was really bad and going to the back of the stable and turning her bum but in a defensive don't hurt me way and I was my usual very quiet, no eye contact talking calmly and quietly to her as always - all I wanted to do was take her rug off as I do everynight but still she seemed scared. Bless her. It hurts to think she still can't relax and trust me.

I have been grooming her for a few minutes once a day and not properly just where ever she feels comfortable normally her bum and legs she is happiest with. She doesn't like her head grooming but I am allowed to stroke that and pick off mud by hand which is an improvement.

I just hate the twitching and flinching - it's so real and so severe such a firm reminder that she is damaged and scarred. I wonder if she will ever be able to relax and be truly happy with me or anyone.

The foal is so easy and so relaxed I can do ANYTHING to her which highlights Trixies issues and makes them seam more real.

Has anyone else ever got their horse through this nervous flinching and twitching behaviour and how?
 
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Its sad isn't it. I will have had my mare 6yrs this year, and every now and again she will flinch when I raise my hand for some reason (ie to turn a light off). She also doesn't like her head messed with. She is really grumpy with it. At some point in her life she has obviously been beaten (I expect because of the faces she pulls, which seem frightening, but if you ignore them, never come to anything). I have discovered, over the years, that she loves to listen. We used to have stables where they could touch each other over a wall, and if I was stroking and talking to her stablemate she would move so close that she was nearly touching and doze next to us. If I turned round or attempted to touch her she would shoot over to the other side of the stable. Now I just talk to her sometimes. I've come to the conclusion that shes not a touchy feely horse - as some people aren't... Its just the way she is. She loves me (I'm the only one who can catch her, works really hard when ridden by me, and definately my team mate XC) and she is happy, so I'm ok with that.
 
Very tired and brain fuzzy so if none of this makes sense, ignore it!
Without seeing your little mare its hard to make a judgement. But although it you've clearly done many good things I wonder if you've maybe been a little too gentle, and might be coming off as unsure to her?
I had a very nervy twitchy boy (and the hand grooming of the head sounds very familiar!), and the best way was to be very matter of fact, almost a little detached.
I would also say its a rare horse that doesnt like a good all over rubber curry combing, especially near the withers for those itchy spots! You might find this builds a little 'bonding' , mine eventually initiated trying to groom me.
He was also much calmer with head brushing (with actual brush!) as long as he knew where both my hands were ie one on his forelock, the other doing the brushing.
 
Don't despair, she will come right. We have a Dartmoor pony who was like this, she would flinch and hide and be generally terrified, her mouth was always tight like she was frowning.. she had been bullied by her previous owner and his little friend and her life had been hell for a few years. Finally she is a confident fun pony who is no longer afraid to express herself and loves hugs and grooming. However, she is still scared stiff of a broom near her.. I doubt she will ever get over that one.

Try not to tiptoe around her too much, she might be thinking that because you seem worried that there is something to worry about. Be quiet in your movements, chat to her allo the time, tell her what you are doing and why etc and try to have an air of confidence. If you can appear confident then she will pick up on it and feel better. It's a fine line to tread, but try to imagine this; you tell your best mate you don't feel well and she replies that you look awful! How do you feel? Generally ten times worse! It's the same with Trixie, tell her everything is ok and she is a good clever girl, be very positive and very clear in what you are doing and when you want to do something then walk firmly but quietly in and do it. Set a routine, it will help her organise her mind, ie, she comes in, has her rug seen to, has a groom and is then fed, or whichever way round you choose to do it, but keep it all the same and predictable for a while, it will make her feel safe.

You obviously care deeply for her and are prepared to take the time and make the effort, stick in there, you will have a happy horse at the end of it.
 
I have had a few totally wild ponies to start some of them need a bit firmer handling to realise they can tolerate it.

Some horses will always flinch a bit but i would say with more assured handling they may stop the turning on you in the stable i have one who was very nervous to the point of climbing the walls to escape he now lets me handle him fine but is a nervy highly strung horse.

He does let farrier me or any handling be done now however the quiet approach didnt work he can sometimes be silly and while you could never shout at him or tell him off you need to be quite firm sometimes and clear boundries and firm touching and grooming and handling just seem to make him feel better as i feel he understands exactly what we are asking him to do.

If you are very tentative if makes him very nervous but he still can be a little flinchy at times but is quite confident if that makes sense trial and error until you find what is going to work.
 
Don't despair, everything takes time, and some things a little more than others.

Bruce shies away if you move your hands too quickly, and we know his previous owner never used to hit him (was a 70 year old biddie that was more guilty of giving him chocolate biscuits!). We think a groom that we once employed used to bully him around abit, as all of ours started getting nervous in the stable at the same time whilst she was working for us. It's a horrible thought. :(

At least she's in safe hands now xoxo
 
I think its just time - my p/l mare was rescued by her owner about 14 years ago now (she's 17) and STILL she has her 'phases'. Sometimes I wonder if they will ever totally stop.
You can't take anything out of the cupboard if she has her head in there noseying about as she jumps back with her nose in the air, nor does she like her forelock being brushed (she puts her head up). Any sudden movements she doesn't like, or any sudden noises scare her (for example, a brush sliding down the wall when its been stood against it, or a haynet string being pulled from the ring). Other things that you wouldn't generally think of like moving a jump pole behind her, raising your arms for any reason.
In every other way she's perfect and if we do scare her by accident she doesn't hold it against us! That's what makes me smile :) I think its just time and routine - they slowly start to realise that actually that isn't going to hurt and you're alright.
I know its hard to see but we are giving them a secure, safe home.
K x
 
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Only just sat down and turned my pc on after a hectic day . Just wanted to say a huge thank you for the lovely, kind supportive replies.

Yes I do think she needs routine so will stick to doing things in order but feel she also in time will need to accept that change is okay too and no harm will come of it.

I try not to pansy around her but sometimes she can be so reactive I don't want to push her comfort zone too far and panic her. She is very kind and has never pulled a face or lashed out and she only turns her bum in defense as a last resort if she is really scared so I know to try a different approach in those situations.

How do you dicipline a naughty but fearful horse. If I click or so much as raise my voice she is very scared and I don't wish to scare her just to say No stand etc such a fine line as I don't want to teach her to play up to get out of something such as grooming, being caught etc.

I only use the rubber curry on her at the moment as that is the only thing she will tolerate. I do try wither scratches and she looks like she really wants to enjoy it and will very occasionally relax and let her lip go all wibbly.
 
When i first got my mare she was exactly the sane as yours :(
She took a very long time to come round but now is absolutly fine so dont loose hope!
I found bringing her in every night made her depend on us for food/water ect and she had slightly more respect and stopped biting and kicking.
It took months before we could groom her easily as she would shoot to the back of the stable as soon as you tried to brush anything but her neck, and took even longer to pick out her feet.
Only advice i can give is work with her everyday and find things she likes so you can reward good behavior, good luck! :D
 
How do you dicipline a naughty but fearful horse. If I click or so much as raise my voice she is very scared and I don't wish to scare her just to say No stand etc such a fine line as I don't want to teach her to play up to get out of something such as grooming, being caught etc
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Try to manage without any form of discipline right now. Ignore any 'bad' or undesirable behaviour and generally it will stop, the way she is if you make an issue of it then it might escalate and cause a far bigger problem. Turn your back on her. Ignore her. That will often work as well as anything else.

When you are grooming her try not to let her dictate how far you can go. Get to the edge of her comfort zone and stay there until she accepts it quietly. Each time you will get a tiny bit further and she will realise she can allow herself to enjoy it. If you can groom her bum then try scratchies at the top and to the side of her tail, most mares looooove that and it can be used as a reward, don't let her get into the habit of demanding it though.

See if you can get a little massage rubber brush, they are only palm size and most horses love to be rubbed with them. Because it is small it won't alarm her so much. Also let her familiarise herself with the grooming kit, tip it on the floor and let her have a good sniff and discover its all harmless. If the foal is hers then use grooming kit that already smells of him, once again it will seem less threatening.

I actually really envy you having her to work with, it is so rewarding when it all comes together and such a great mental challenge to work ouot how to do things and gain her trust and confidence.
 
We bought a WelshDxTB rising 4 yr old mare, she was very nervous, having been bought back by a previous owner and fed up after a year of neglect. She always hated small, elderly men and once kicked our YO when he tried to help our Welsh A in the field.
She reacted very badly to noise and actually we found out many years later that she was unable to eat sugar & cereals, which made her more nervous. We kept her to a routine and she did get much better, although she was never very happy about being girthed/rug surcingles fastened but she did get much better about having her head & ears touched.
However when she was 22 she got heat-stroke and was very happy for us to put cold wet towels around her ears & head. We would never have believed any-one who foretold that when she was younger! She was always an affectionate horse and thought that we could cure any problem.
She was never an easy horse but she certainly got much easier to deal with as she got used to us and we got her used to our routine.
 
I think it also helps if you do need to tell them off always do in the same way for my nervous ones when they were settled if pushing boundries and behaving in an unacceptable way i taught them that no meant i was displeased.

If i used this with a change in voice they pick up you are not happy without it being too frightening for them, and as soon as they obliged and did what i wanted lots of praise always stick to the same thing so they know straight away if they are pushing their luck.

I find these types like to please and are pretty clever if sensitive so react quickly to a change in your voice tone and the word and usually happy to oblige, i have one of mine while nervy and sensitive can push his luck and get a little bargy when frightned if allowed to let his fears run away with himself so sometimes that No makes him realise i am not happy with his behaviour and can bring him back to his senses before it gets out of hand and he scares the beejusus out of himself.
 
I think what Honey08 said is so right; a frightened horse often craves comfort and affection and being touched, is too scared to accept it at first hand, but loves the sound (and probably the reaction) of another horse being cherished. I had a scared mare, and I eventually got round her by doing just that - stroking, scratching and crooning to her field mate - Scaredy would then come right up close, and so with my spare hand, but never looking at her, I'd just scratch her as well, but still carrying on with the other horse. We became the best of friends and she stopped flinching, but it took a long time - about 2 years I think.

Don't forget what long memories hores have too. A very solid citizen of a Connemara we had got stung on the ear by a bee when he was about five. He never forgot that 'poorly ear' for the rest of his life and always twitched it away when you groomed him or put his bridle on!
 
My pony was badly handled as a youngster - she ran in a 'wild' herd for 5 years but when they were rounded up they were basically treated like sheep, the breeders used to lift them by their ears! :eek: She was sold to my YO who halter broke her etc but gave her very little handling for 5 years when I bought her. She's had consistant handling from me - she was told off for trying to bite and for throwing herself on the floor when I was breaking her in, both times a raised voice was all she needed. Ive never smacked her and she's not been badly treated in 7 years but she still spooks at strangers, flinches if you move to fast round her and hates having her ears fiddled with. I make a point of stroking them everyday but she just doesn't want to trust :(
She's been assessed by someone who works with rescues and they reckon its a learned behaviour thats hard to break more than proper fear.
 
I have a little 11.3 pony, who was only 4 when I bought her (4 years ago).....she had been through the sales as a 2 year old, and whether that was where her fear came from, or whether she had actually been beaten, I will never know.

When I first got her you couldnt get anywhere near her head and she was scared of her own shadow.....

She is much better now, but still jumps if I make a loud noise, and will sometimes go to the back of her stable when I go in....

I have *never* raised a hand to her, yet she clearly still remembers her past.

It is so awful that there are such b****ards about that can do this.....especially to such a tiny pony, who must have been even smaller when they were bullying her.....:(

I'm sure my pony knows that I love her though, and she is very affectionate....
 
It's hard to say without seeing her whether she will ever stop flinching completely. Think back to what she was like when you first got her, I bet she is a lot more relaxed now than she was then. Is there another horse you could bring in and groom, etc and let her watch? It might make her relax a bit more if she sees a more confident horse being handled and groomed.

I've dealt with quite a few nervous horses and ponies over the years and most of them have improved with time and patience. Handling them little and often seems to be the best way as the more good experiences they have, the better.
 
Yes she does come very close when I groom her foal and her companion NF pony. She looks like she really wants to join in but just can't quite pluck up the courage.

I find she is better unrestrained and loose in an open space. I can do mutual hand grooming with her easily then. As soon as you put her in an enclosed space or put a headcollar on her she is far far worse. We have made such progress in the past 2 years but I sometimes forget that so thank you for reminding me :)

It is highlighted 10 fold when her filly is just so so easy and will let me do anything with her with no so much as a blink and even the NF gelding who came to me wild because he had no bad associations once we did something and no harm came form the experience he has no hang ups if that makes sense. We do have the mouth issue but that was a previous story where I stupidly let someone else " more experienced" handle him and she jabbed him in the mouth and hurt him hence the reluctance now to let anyone bit him although I am allowed to.

A final question - I can do things with my mare but as soon as someone else tries to she reverts to type again and won't let then near her or handle her - Is this the same for your " damaged" horses or does this too fade with time? I just worry that if the worst happened and I had to part with her she'd end up on the scrap heap as we all know once you have sold a horse there is no gaurentees what the new owner will do and even if they are wonderful the next owners may not be. Horrid though but if I can get her on the right track now it greatly improves her future. I have no intension of ever selling her but we are in such dire economic circumstances in this country at the moment I like to keep my level head on.
 
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