Will things improve or should I hang up my hunting coat?

[Kat]

You can buy something called a "carol mailer bridging rein" which is supposed to help you not loose your reins when they are snatched at. I've never seen one in the flesh but have seen them mentioned in magazines a couple of times.

I'd also suggest what weezy says, give her a good pony club style kick every time she does it. Accompany it with one hand lifting at the elbow, to raise her head.

 

[RunToEarth]

QR-
I REALLY do sympathise with you because I know there is nothing worse than having no control on the hunting field, it's one of the worst feelings.
With my coloured horse, is was a case of "bottoming him". He was like patches for the first few times, because he was used to being up front working hounds, and after about two weeks Monday, Wednesday< Saturday, he was a different horse. It is horrible not having control, out boxing day a few years ago he locked on to a barbed wire fence and it is a place I never want to go with us again.
Last weekend the fear was revisited when I took OH's over fit pointer out as my second horse and my god did he pull.
I would be tempted to say put a man on her for a few meets, see if it makes a difference, settles her?

 

[winterhorses2]

well yes i hope you sort somthing out and get a result which means you can continue hunting ...

i am however very upset and appalled that you didnt make it known you were upset at someone riding your horse and repeatingly beating it round the head and neck is acceptable especially from the master of the hunt !!!!!!!
that is no way to teach a horse and i wouldnt be best pleased to know a master of any hunt behaved this way

if he did that to my horse i would make sure he got one or two round his head and see how he likes it ...

 

[RobinHood]

Have you tried a daisy rein? I know people think of them as being for children's ponies but they are fantatsic for horses that snatch and pull their head down. They're usually very cheap as well.

http://www.brighteyesandbobtails.co.uk/acatalog/4206_Daisy_rein.JPG

 

[Patches]

Quite frankly I was just grateful for the ride home in the Land Rover as I simply couldn't cope with her behaviour anymore after I'd fallen off. I was far too sore to have her constantly tugging at me.

Alot of people would do a similar thing to a horse that goes up. You hear loads of people say "hit it over the head". I'm not saying I would do that, and indeed you will gleam from my original post that it's not the way I intend to tackle this myself. I am, afterall, fluffy sometimes. He didn't repeatedly wallop her at all. You make it sound like he leathered her. However, every time she did it, he did smack her and she did soon stop doing it. I also don't know that he hit her over the head, I said "perhaps over the head too". We were following in the Land Rover and I wasn't sure where she was being smacked as he was up front obviously. It was infront of her shoulder though.

One or two wallops around the head of the Master would've resulted in an assault charge too. What he did was nothing like the behaviour of some of our elite, professional riders at competitions.

Not much different to anyone telling me to sock her in the mouth to make her sit up and take notice, even if it does cut her mouth, as she has to learn that pulling and snatching results in an unpleasant experience for her. I tend to agree, in theory. My safety should really come before worrying about her feelings.

You'll be pleased to hear my girl hasn't been remotely "traumatised" and is perfectly happy for me to carry a whip etc. It wasn't at all abusive...not in the way you have clearly taken it.

 

[Patches]

She's only small Rosiie. The Master looked very underhorsed on her. At 15.1, she is almost the smallest on the field and I often feel like I'm riding "my little pony".

It's worth asking about though.

I am determined to only take her for one or two runs the next few times we go out and use it as a schooling exercise. I knew in my own mind that things were getting a bit beyond stupid, and could kick myself for not going home sooner. Problem was, it's quite a closed ride were we went and by the time I'd had enough we were nowhere near a gateway. When we did get to a gateway there was only one run left. I'd have been hacking home till 6pm! lol

 

[winterhorses2]

Well i'm glad your horse is ok. I agree about your safety, but draw the line at "perhaps" beating a horse over the head.
As a huntsmans wife, i'm by no means fluffy either, but hey, i care for my horses and in my opinion would have approached it differently. I just feel that Masters and hunt staff should lead by example on how they treat their horses or anyone elses for that matter.

 

[Patches]

I couldn't continue to ride. It's the first time I've fallen off out hunting (or anywhere for that matter and not felt able to continue to ride my horse).

Never seen the Master ever smack his own horse.....but then she is a Saint compared to mine on the hunt field.

I will not criticise, a favour was done for me that was very necessary at the time.

 

[KatB]

I had the same problem. I found the more I bitted him, the worse he got. I even changed bits halfway out bloodhounding, which made no effect at all. I ended up putting him on anxicalm calmer, and using a universal with a tight curb strap and a grackle noseband. I think the calmer made the most difference tbh. Honestly, regardless of what you put in the mouth, they will fight it if they are so inclined.

 

[BBs]

The same thing happens with Winston out hunting. Head down and pulling me along.
American cherry roller gag works a treat. Horse then gets to gallop and I don thave to pull the whole time = great days hunting

 

[spacefaer]

I hope you find a bit/noseband combination that works.

IMHO - and this is NOT a criticism.....
I think bloodhounding and drag hunting is a big ask for young or inexperienced horses to expect them to behave and have brakes in galloping/jumping company.

We take our young horses cubbing (sorry - autumn hunting), keeping it as calm and quiet while they learn about cantering in company in open spaces, and also about standing about while hounds draw a covert. I'm always impressed by draghunters who have mannered horses as the stop/start/gallop/jump thing is a hard thing for a horse to learn.

My lot would be wild - and I think they're good hunters

 

[Patches]

I agree. I can't imagine I would want to take a young horse bloodhounding. Ours aren't a really "serious" pack though. Pretty laid back and the "checks" seem a little too long for my horse.....she wants to be off!

She is eleven though and is used to cantering, galloping and jumping in company. She's perfectly mild mannered on a farm ride, endurance ride, sponsored ride etc. Open spaces, company and galloping don't wind her up generally speaking.

 

[Clodagh]

I have no proper bit suggestions, but I think you have to make her hurt more than you!
As for hitting around the head, if it works do it! My mare used to spend the whole hunting day on her back legs if we weren't galloping and whacking her over the head at least made her rear while keeping it down, so was safer.
Daisy rein? Just to stop her snatching.
Definately stop before she gets tired, they are like children, horrid if overcooked.
Have you tried a tom thumb?

 

[Patches]

That's a great suggestion too BBs.

I have three bits to try...in this order...

Cheltenham Gag (and wrong as it may be, I am considering only use one rein as most other people don't seem to use two)
Tom Thumb
American Gag

I have been given a Cheltenham gag to try by my instructor, so will give that a go first. I can get my hands on a Tom Thumb from her to try after that if it doesn't make things any better.

I will then order an American Gag to try if the others fail. Might as well give a go to something I can try before I buy....so to speak.

I also like the idea of the Kineton Noseband. The best she was, head wise, was when she was in the KK Correction Bit and Worcester noseband. Whilst we had no brakes at all...the head stayed up!

I could get a Worcester (the one I was using wasn't mine), as it might be milder than the Kineton and just as effective. I'd probably not try that in any other than her Myler snaffle or maybe a Dr Bristol though.

That lot should keep me going until the end of the season eh? ;-)

On the plus side, we had a fabulous jumping lesson today. The canter work and jumping has come on tremendously. We're putting that down to all the fast work building her canter. She is becoming a joy to ride. Definitely feels like I got a new horse this year!

 

[RunToEarth]

I hunt Oshk in a cheltenham gag with one rein, judge me as you like but when out hunting there is no way I am using the snaffle rein, it would just be another faf having it on.
I like the cheltenham gag though, it's honest, and easy.
Although I do think that with some horses it isn't a question of bits, a reality you may have to face, some horses just won't settle to hunting, its rubbish and frustrating but some just will not happily ever be in a hunting field, and unless hunting is your be all and end all, don't bugger her up trying.
x

 

[Irishcobs]

I'm another one that hunts in a cheltenham gag with one rein.
I've done the 2 reins with a pelham and my hands were b*ggered afterwards, 2 reins, hunt whip and a strong horse is too much to hold.
Hattie went from being strong and leaning in a straight bar pelham to being as light as a feather in a waterford cheltenham gag.

 

[spacefaer]

patches - I've got a 51/2" American Gag you can borrow if you'd like

 

[Patches]

Totally agree Rosiie.

I'll take her a few more times, but I'm not prepared to risk her either. At the end of the day, I only have the one horse to ride. She's going so well in all other aspects of ridden work.

This is why I am determined to not be suckered into staying. I will have as much fun if I only do an hour, as if I stay and do three (or possibly more fun only staying an hour if she's still silly). I will go along the next few times solely viewing it as a schooling exercise.

I do not want to ruin her. As it is, I rarely jump out hunting now. I see little point in hurtling out of control at fences. I value being able to walk, for me and her, too much. I have nothing to prove to myself or others in that respect. I know what I'm happy to jump in normal situations, but won't risk her when she's not in complete control.

 

[Patches]

patches - I've got a 51/2" American Gag you can borrow if you'd like

Ooo thanks for the offer.

I am going to try the Cheltenham gag this weekend, as I have it to hand. Not sure when I'll get to go again, for a few weeks though, as we pick up our new puppy next Saturday. Hubby will not mop puddles! ***rolls eyes***

If the Cheltenham Gag doesn't work, I'd love to take up your offer in the new year.

Thanks.

 

[Lollii]

I have a kineton noseband you can have/try, it didn't work for my boy, just let me know if you need it though?

Only problem is... it is tan (colour) it is the only colour I could get really quickly, but it didn't look that bad with my dark bridle!

 

[MrWoof]

Otherwise, does your hunt have a nagsman or similar to take your horse out for you for a few days? They do settle but you need someone who won't take no for an answer..!

That is exactly what I was going to suggest - a good nagsman (not many about these days) will never be beaten.
Use a Cheltenham Gag with a double rein, a Sam Marsh Pelham or a Swales???
Bill Bryan used to use a Double on his HWs beginning with "B" - that would stop anything leaning. Problem is, I cannot remember what it was called but have made some enquiries. Does anyone else know of the bit I am referring to please?
What are you sitting on - is it the grey in your picture? It might help to know height, build, etc. Good luck.

 

[Patches]

I have text the Master to ask him if he knows anyone. Problem is, she is the only horse I have, so I don't want anyone bottoming her as such, if you know what I mean. I realise she needs "sorting", but I can't risk her injuring herself if he's running on empty.

I am going out armed with a whip, spurs, the cheltenham gag and super grippy gloves this weekend. I am only going to stay for an hour or so, in order to avoid over tiring her. She's worse when tired.

Here's a few links of us. Miss P is 15.1, 11 years old, blue and white lightweight cob. Just a cart horse. )

This picture was taken at the end of a full day's autumn hunting. Still full of running!
http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto..._142542332230_562852230_3026303_8295172_n.jpg

The body protector came out for the next meet! LOL
http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto..._152314922230_562852230_3113131_4251822_n.jpg

Head up...me smiling! Myler Comfort snaffle in mouth. It's not all bad.
http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto..._152323247230_562852230_3113272_6429048_n.jpg

 

[star]

just be prepared she may snatch more in a stronger bit. mine was a million times worse in the Chelt gag - it worked in terms of stopping him but he threw toys out of pram big time and i had the worst hunt ever when i tried it. not trying to persuade you not to try it as every horse different but just be prepapred that she might not like the bit and fight it more.

 

[MrWoof]

If your Master knows a "good nagsman" then don't worry about her getting bottomed. They will do enough and only enough.
So - you have a 15.1hh Cob, who leans seriously and appears to get onto the forehand in fine style. I had one of those but bigger and very well sprung - and I am five foot and a squeak. I could never ride her in anything but a double rein. The SMP worked wonders - bum right under and front came up light into hands. I have one if you would like to try it. Just PM me with your address.

 

[Patches]

Thanks Mr Woof.

I think JM7 has beaten you to it with an offer of a Sam Marsh Pelham. I'm not going to be going for a few weeks after this weekend though as we get our new puppy next Saturday.

I'll be on puppy sitting duty (loosely translated to mean "Mrs Mop" duty).

If I struggle to get hold of the other one, I will definitely take you up on that offer.

She makes me laugh in some ways. She's arguably the smallest horse on the hunt field and yet she makes the biggest commotion! The shame.

 

[MrWoof]

I have just spoken to Simon Bryan (Bill's son) and he has said that "the perfect bit" for a bolshie Cob is a Sam Marsh.
The Double I mentioned in an earlier post is a "Banbury" and Simon also suggested a Myler Control or Combination Bit (??)
If anyone knows what he is talking about re: bitting horses it has to be SB or one of his brothers.

 

[Patches]

Thanks Mr Woof.

We've tried the Myler Combination.....too much bit! If she wasn't going backwards, she was shaking her head about like a dog with a toy.

We also have the Myler bit which they suggest for leaning/no brakes. MB32 (if I recall correctly). Cannot work out "why" but all she does is go around with her head cocked to the left all the time. Most bizarre.

Will try the Cheltenham this weekend (so I can tick if off the list) and will then have a "play" about getting her used to something like the SM with two reins. I need to know if my mind that she "won't" snatch the way she currently does before I dare take her hunting with two reins. That's a lot of knitting to be picking up if she shows her usual colours.

I have brakes and steering normally...until she pulls her head down. All the problems start with the head tanking. We've bought some rubber reins and Roeckl "spiderman" gloves (XC gloves) for the extra grips they have on them.

I will carry a stick to wallop down her shoulder if she dives on me too.

I need to be ready for her and react quickly enough. She's one of those horses that if you give her an inch, she'll take a mile.

Thanks for the advice and for asking Mr Bryan's opinion for me. I really appreciate and value the input. I am pretty sure I will shortly be reporting how she goes in a Sam Marsh, come the new year.

 

[CrazyZebra]

Good luck with it I don't have any advice really but have a lot of sympathy! When I was 14 we bought a lovely big ex-eventer who turned out to be unstoppable cross country or hacking in company. Our Pony Club used to do "fun rides" which were led by the hunt master and therefore pretty fast and she did exactly the same thing to me, snatching and tanking off. In the end she took off and jumped a gate with me and in the end I had to come home on a lead rein which was quite embarassing at the time!

I hope you find something that works