Will vets put down for old age?

Llewellyn

Llewellyn

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Hideous topic for a post I know:
In the last 3 months my just 11 year old cocker has suddenly got old. Walks longer than about 20minutes leave her stiff for 3 or so days (despite doggy ibuprofen), a garden 'dash around' means she needs to sleep for the rest of the day. It's not that she is not taking part in these activities with her usual exuberance but her recovery time is poor and obviously uncomfortable. Getting on and off chairs is difficult as are the stairs. I was hoping warmer weather would perk her up but it's had little effect so far.
She is struggling to hear the door go so often comes in to be surprised by visitors. And I'm pretty sure her eyesight has suffered, walking past treats on the floor, struggling to find the tennis ball etc.
This is a question for the future but do vets put down due to old age alone? (Or does this vary from vet to vet)
If she continues on her current decline (which is steep) I doubt she'll still be fit by next winter. My hope is Spring/summer will see a transformation along with making sure the children don't make her jump and taking things a bit slower means we can keep her going longer but I don't want to have to isolate her from family life to achieve this as for the last 7 years she has been the children's go to companion and she's is stressed if we so much as feed the chickens without her overseeing it.
(I think she knows I'm writing this- she is dozing in the sun peering at me over the arm of her favourite armchair- heartbreaking)
 
yes of course, if you have a decent vet. Last year people posted up some good sites that evaluate older dogs' quality of life-as a sort of checklist/guide. They are objective and I found them quite helpful. I can't remember them (worse than useless) but hopefully someone else will have them.
 
Vets will put down on your instructions at whatever age - I know it distresses them with a young healthy dog but if the owner insists they have to abide by that. Hope you can manage the "better a day too soon" rule, it's never easy.
 
Yes they will, but I would say pick your vet carefully, and make it clear from the outset your intentions. I have experienced young vets particularly try and change my mind / guilt trip me into persisting in the past.
 
I hope so. Our 14 yr old border collie is slow to get up sometimes, can't jump in the car anymore etc. When I decide its time, I will not take no for an answer if the vet queries.
 
tda said:
I hope so. Our 14 yr old border collie is slow to get up sometimes, can't jump in the car anymore etc. When I decide its time, I will not take no for an answer if the vet queries.
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Correct, the dog's quality of life is paramount.
I've told several vets they are doing things wrong [as subtle as only I can be], they don't like it. But on certain subjects and with certain vets I have more ......... experience........... in certain things.
But with my three pts pets things have been worked out OK, we have a chat, and that's that. I think I decided my old lab would be pts if she had a problem, and I was with her.
I once had a horse diagnosed with grass sickness, and the second opinion vet operated, it was not a good death. He was not a pet, but he deserved better.
 
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As ihatework says, they will but pick your vet. The last thing you need, on the day you decide, is to have an argument.
With my old lurcher I discussed it with the vet on my last visit with her, and so he knew that the next one would be the last. It also means you can say if they want them to do it in your car or whatever, if they get distressed at the vets.
I would, if I were you, take her for one last check up and a med review, I did with Sash, just to set my mind at rest that the end was in sight.
 
JillA said:
Vets will put down on your instructions at whatever age - I know it distresses them with a young healthy dog but if the owner insists they have to abide by that. Hope you can manage the "better a day too soon" rule, it's never easy.
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This wasn't true for my mother. A vet refused to put down her poodle with colitis and insisted he could rehome it. She had to find another vet to do it. The vet was right in all probability, it was my mother's behaviour causing the dog the issues (toy poodle apparently prone to this?). But the refusal was absolute, he told her that he would not do it.

The case of the frozen puppies this week is another. The vet refused to put the puppies down because they were healthy, so she froze them.



Glad to hear that you are planning ahead for your dog, OP. Sorry you are having to, though.
 
My vet won't put down an animal that is healthy. I thought that was normal?

Big dog went to the vet today, he was in a bad way yesterday, obviously overdone it. I was relieved to see him trotting round place wanting to play tug when I got home. Apparently a visit to the vet perked him right up! I won't have him PTS until he no longer has a good quality of life. So far, he's enjoying life still.

Someone froze a litter of puppies? That's appalling :(
 
Its down to the Vets discretion.
They can chose to refuse to euthanise for ethical reason if they feel it isnt something they can live with. Simple as that.Everyone one has a different place where they draw the line.

Im not surprised to here that a dog with colitis was offered rehoming instead of euthanasia. Thats usually an easily managed condition and poodles tend to be easy to rehome as the rescue networks quite good.I wouldnt sleep well at night had I put to sleep a dog in that sort of scenario either....
Even euthanising sick animals for financial reasons cuts me up a bit inside tbh.

Its different with elderly animals who have a poor quality of life or when suffering is involved regardless of age.
I dont know of any vet who will refuse to euthanise an elderly dog whos already on meds and beginning to struggle.

It is better to go a day to early rather then a day to late....but only if the animal is going to suffer as an alternative.
 
JillA said:
Vets will put down on your instructions at whatever age - I know it distresses them with a young healthy dog but if the owner insists they have to abide by that. Hope you can manage the "better a day too soon" rule, it's never easy.
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Agree with this. My parents cat needed to be PTS as was elderly and had lots of problems. Vets persuaded them to try various things and even suggested they brought her home for a last weekend when it wasn't kind to the cat.
 
Im not surprised to here that a dog with colitis was offered rehoming instead of euthanasia. Thats usually an easily managed condition and poodles tend to be easy to rehome as the rescue networks quite good.I wouldnt sleep well at night had I put to sleep a dog in that sort of scenario either....
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I just want to add that I completely agreed with the vet. At a family gathering some time later my mother wailed 'I had Pippie murdered' expecting us all to say 'oh no, Mum, you didn't'. The whole room went silent. I offered to take the dog and rehome him at the time as well, but she didn't want him alive reminding her that her own behaviour was making him ill. She was in the middle of a campaign to force my father to move somewhere he didn't want to go to and the dog couldn't take the stress, poor little mite.
 
Aru said:
It is better to go a day to early rather then a day to late....but only if the animal is going to suffer as an alternative.
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Complete agree with the above.

Sorry your older dog is not doing so well :( It is absolutely heartbreaking to try and decide when to say goodbye. My old collie is 14 years and my husband's is 15 years. Both have health issues due to old age - arthritis, deafness etc. While they both still enjoy a walk and potter outside, eat their tea with gusto and enjoy a fuss and groom then I believe they still have a decent quality of life. Both are on daily metacam to help any pain or inflammation. I know they are both on borrowed time though, and know my vets well enough to hope they will respect my judgement with regard to the timing. It is a difficult enough decision to make without being questioned about it :(
 
Aru said:
It is better to go a day to early rather then a day to late....but only if the animal is going to suffer as an alternative.
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Aru, I'm sorry, I usually really like what you write. But this makes no sense. The saying means that it is better to destroy an animal before it needs to be destroyed, taking away from it time that it would have enjoyed, than it is to leave the decision too late and cause suffering.

The saying in the UK is actually 'better a week too early than a day too late'. Then there's my version. Better a month too early than an hour too late.

Imo, fwiw, too many people are waiting to long to have their animals put to sleep. Animals need us to have the courage to make the decision while they still have quality life left.

It breaks my heart when I read threads on here sometimes about incontinent dogs that can't walk, horses that people are having to help to their feet, and so on.
 
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CorvusCorax said:
Physically or mentally?
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I'd say both. They won't PTS a horse for financial reasons or because someone doesn't want to risk a re-home and would prefer peace of mind by having it PTS.

My previous vet agreed to PTS an older cat who I think had a form of dementia, was incontinent and beginning to look emaciated. They also PTS a dog who couldn't walk, despite the RVC giving us steroids and hope.

YCBM: I can't agree with you. I'd far rather PTS a day early than an hour late. Saying that's time they could have had is putting off the inevitable in a case where an owner/vet thinks an animal should be be PTS due to health/mental issues.
 
YCBM: I can't agree with you. I'd far rather PTS a day early than an hour late. Saying that's time they could have had is putting off the inevitable in a case where an owner/vet thinks an animal should be be PTS due to health/mental issues.[/QUOTE]

I understood ycbm said the same as you? :-)
 
CT I think you have misunderstood me? I would rather PTS a month early than an hour too late. I think we agree completely :)
 
cinnamontoast said:
I'd say both. They won't PTS a horse for financial reasons or because someone doesn't want to risk a re-home and would prefer peace of mind by having it PTS.
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I'm just thinking of two dogs we have had over the years who were outwardly young, fit and healthy, one was downright dangerous/untrustworthy and the other was disturbed/unhappy. But I doubt a vet would have known that by looking at them in a room in a surgery, the issues weren't presenting themselves there.
 
I would say 'old age' is the most common reason for PTS! Its not always the younger vets who are the ones pushing for more tests/treatment options. If anything I'd say it is the reverse!
 
Ycbm I think we proabley mean the same thing just phrased differently.

I have no issues pts animals that are suffering or will suffer and follow the above motto with no guilt...dogs with mental illness and severe anxiety causing aggression also count as suffering in my eyes btw.

I added the suffering comment as there is something called convenience euthanasia.....where an animal who is healthy becomes inconvenient to the owner and they want them pts.
The big one we see is when elderly parents go into a nursing home and none of the kids want to take on the dog...often middle aged and healthy...just unwanted and they dont want to rehome them as its hassle and difficult to do/they worry about being judged.

Or the people who want to euthanise an older cat as it isnt getting along with the new kitten and is mean....ie showing normal cat behaviour when you introduce another cat!
you occaionally see the same scenario with a dog and pup...but less often as dogs tolerate newcomers more frequently.

Or the moving house euthanaisa...without massive effort put into finding pets a new home.....

An elderly animal who wont cope well with change or an animal with underlying health issues...is an entirely different ball game to friendly dog whos only issue is having an irresposible owner....The friendly dog isnt suffering in my eyes so the day to early rule doesnt apply to them!

However if its a case that theres nowhere for them to go I would still say pts rather then have then languish in a kennel for the rest of their miserable lives...but thankfully most of the rescues I have worked with use a foster system....and in many convenience euthanising situations rehoming the animal hasnt always been tried with much effort.
 
If you have a vet who won't put down a dog, when asked, you find a vet who will. The reason why the owner wants the dog PTS is immaterial, and equally if a vet can't cope with putting a dog down when they decide that there's no valid reason, then that must be their stance and their choice. Were I a vet, which obviously I'm not, I wouldn't see it as my place to refuse to carry out a request because should I, then the owner will obviously go somewhere else. In the event that a young dog with no obvious problems came in then I may well counsel that perhaps another answer be considered, but should I meet with a wall, then I'd carry out the procedure.

When the time comes, I always put my own dogs to sleep, it's quicker than any vet, it's clean and there's no stress whatsoever. The dog is alive one moment, unaware of it's future and then the next, the light is switched off; it's that quick. It isn't a job which I enjoy but one which I see as a responsibility. I don't expect others to feel as I do, which brings us back to the truth that we all have the freedom of choice.

Alec.
 
In the same camp Alec i never expect anybody to do what i cant do myself! Its a lot better for the animal too . Not the nicest part of keeping animals but the kindest thing we ever do for them!
 
Dogs let you know when it is time too. I had two older rescues and when they were approx 13 the younger one had a random stroke..totally fine and healthy the day before. She was pts then and there, and the other pined so much he deteriorated very quickly and a day or so later we had him pts too because he was struggling to stand and just looked totally depressed.


My current older dog is 12, which isnt bad going for a staffy. Shes got a hip injury from getting hit by a car a year or so ago, that never quite healed, but the vet said that amputating the leg was unnecessary as it was still technically healthy..she just walks funny. Shes still active and interested in life but she does use a bit of effort to get out of bed in the mornings. When she needs help to get out of a normal dog bed i think thats when we will be calling it..im sure she will let us know when its time.
 
popsdosh said:
In the same camp Alec i never expect anybody to do what i cant do myself! Its a lot better for the animal too . Not the nicest part of keeping animals but the kindest thing we ever do for them!
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I actually envy both you and Alec. What a great way for a dog to go. I would do it too if I had a powerful enough gun.
 
I think so much of this debate hinges around your own attitude to the value of life. If you take away love for the animal and wanting it to be alive for your own sake, then you are left only with whether you feel that any animal intrinsically values 'being alive'. For me, that would have to include a belief that an animal looks forward to a future in the same way that humans do, and I just don't believe that to be the case. If an animal does not know it has a future life, what is the problem with taking that away, for whatever reason?
 
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