Wind Sucking/ Cribing

tashasudz

tashasudz

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Does anybody have any advice or ideas to try and stop/ wean my horse from doingthis ?

i have an ex racehorse and she windsucks from the stress of being raced then tooken out of it, shes got a leather windsucking collar but i feel bad sumtimes as she wears it all the time and its getting old and a new one is quite expensive :( thanks xx
 
There are various supplements you can get to help settle the stomach. I have never found any make much of a difference though. Keep her occupied, give plenty of forage, keep her out as much as possible and try to stay away from too much hard feed.

I have a hardly used leather miracle collar I am selling (for £20) if you are interested? I bought one for my cribber but ithad to be on so tight is was rubbing him and he still cribbed so I took it off after a couple of months and have never used it again.
 
You may get more help in Veterinary
Many ex-racers have stomach ulcers due to lack of fibre 24/7, deal with this and the wind sucking may reduce
Think about a diet high in good quality fibre--ad lib and minimum hard feed--this could be as soaked Fast Fibre or Alfabeet
 
Please don't use one of those torture devices - I see they're now making collars that shock the horse, how depraved can you get!

As much turn out as possible, forage only diet, supplement such as Comfort Gut to ease the pain and time to chill out. If you know anyone learning Reiki offer them a guinea pig. Then just accept it as part of who the horse is.

Don't believe anyone who tells you the horse is more likely to colic, it's the other way round - some horses who are prone to colic windsuck to relieve the pain.
 
Bobs neighbour is an ex-racer who windsucks - no one is ever going to stop him doing it so we all just try to control it as much as possible (without the use of collars etc). He has been scoped and not a sign of an ulcer thankfully. :D

I would say that you're never going to stop him so just do your best to minimise it - as long as he's happy and healthy then I don't think you can ask for more. :)
 
hi

my horse cribs he is only 8 and have had him since he was 4 and he was cribbing when i brought him. i manage his cribbing better when he has 24 hour turn out, he has electric fencing around the top of all the fence post in his paddock which prevents him from cribbing. I have tried supplements however nothing seems to work. Its more of a habbit and enjoyment for him now. I keep him busy by working him daily and going to shows. He has a good life i just want to make sure he doesnt ware his teeth down.He can eat as much hay as he wants to keep him busy and his mind off cribbing. If he cribs when he is in his stable i have rubber covering the door, and i allow him to crib on his leadrope as its better than him cribbing on hard surfaces. I find its better to manage cribbing than it is to try and stop it all together.


good luck.
 
intouch said:
Please don't use one of those torture devices - I see they're now making collars that shock the horse, how depraved can you get!

As much turn out as possible, forage only diet, supplement such as Comfort Gut to ease the pain and time to chill out. If you know anyone learning Reiki offer them a guinea pig. Then just accept it as part of who the horse is.

Don't believe anyone who tells you the horse is more likely to colic, it's the other way round - some horses who are prone to colic windsuck to relieve the pain.
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i think you will find that they colic as they fill up with air from cribbing !!

I know of 3 horses all had colic as the owner would not put a collar on - thankfully all survived but all now wear a collar and do not hav ea problem x
 
Not true at all Tinks - extensive research has shown the air rarely gets to the stomach, your view is now a very old fashioned one, thankfully knowledge has moved on from then.

Tasha it would be a lot kinder to your horse to remove the collar, if you are having to do it up so tight it is probably causing lots of discomfort and exerting pressure on the bones in her poll so really the worst thing. The best thing as others have suggested is to allow her to crib whilst helping her as much as possible by feeding ad lib hay, not feeding cereals such as mixes or oats, lots of turnout and preferably some sort of antacid like Feedmark's Settlex which I had a lot of success with using on my established cribber. He stopped about 90% of the time. Good luck.
 
it is 90% usually brought on by pain in stomache
put on a supplement aimed at windsucking/cribiting.
and give adlib hay and max turnout if poss put electric wire around top of fencing to prevent it.
but remember it is a sympton of pain which can become a habit.
it can take a while for supplement to kick in
i wouldnt use a coller use preventive management.
when tied up tryand tie somewhere so they cant do it.
i have kept veteran thoroughbreds out all winter 24/7 (inc in the snow)well rugged up.
so nayhorse can live out.
it may b a drastic option but changing to a quieter yard may help as if u in a busy yard it reminds them of racing.
 
also dont feed any grain based feed.
feed a fibre based feed
hoses can event on fibre feed u dont ned to give grain.
it will keep the gut moving conatantly therefore preventing the acid forming a problem
 
Very very old fashioned.... this paper is from 1995!!

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.2042-3306.1995.tb03042.x/abstract

"There is confusion in the veterinary literature concerning the definition of oral based stereotypies in the horse. This study reports the use of fluoroscopy and endoscopy during crib-biting/wind-sucking in afflicted horses. This permitted observations of movements of the pharyngeal and oesophageal tissues and of the air column within during the stereotypic behaviour. The findings reported show that the sequence of events during crib-biting/wind-sucking is not related to deglutition and that air is not swallowed to the stomach. Transient dilation of the upper oesophagus was recorded and the characteristic noise of wind-sucking coincided with the in-rush of air through the cricopharynx. The oesophageal distension was relieved when the air returned to the pharynx although small quantities passed caudally. It is proposed that the role of contraction of the strap muscles of the neck is to create a pressure gradient in the soft tissues surrounding the oesophagus which provokes movement of air from the pharynx into the oesophagus. The findings suggest that the definitions currently used in the sale of horses are in need of revision."

As far as I am aware (and I have researched this subject pretty heavily) there is no study that indicates horses in general swallow air when crib-biting.

It is a fasinating subject to read about (type "crib biting" into google scholar - lots of very interesting articles, and you can learn a lot just from the abstracts), particuarly the "chicken and egg" aspect of does crib biting cause colic, or are horses that are more likely to colic crib bite as a coping mechaniasm for gastrointestinal pain.

One thing I conclude from what I have read is DO NOT try and prevent it. Other horses do not "learn" the behaviour (this is backed up again by scientific research - CBA to find the papers at this time of night but they are there I promise!!) - the reason you are likely to see several horses on the same yard exhibit this behaviour is more likely due to the similar conditions they are kept (probably inside a lot with a high concentrate diet) and as the "colic" arguement has little standing IMO I see no reason for stopping the behaviour. In fact, why would you stop your horse doing something that might be helping him cope better with his environment?

And to conclude.... (although yes, low sample size I know...)

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.2042-3306.1998.tb05142.x/abstract

(Don't mean to preach - crib-biting is one of my little "soap box" moments as there are so many outdated fallicies throughout the equine world about it that just aren't based on fact. Really wish the findings from these journals were conveyed more where horsey people would actually find them - its no good printing it in a journal IMO if the general public are still none the wiser and horses still wear those darn collars)
 
P.S. sorry didn't really say what to do instead of cribbing collars (please don't use :)!!). I do not know what your horses current routine is, but try and maximise turn out time where possible. Try to limit concentrates (thats all your grains, mixes etc) and feed more roughage. I know weight can often be a problem in TBs, so prehaps feed sugar beat instead of your mixes if that'll keep weight on him, and try an antacid too. As previously said, maybe see if you can pop him in a quieter part of the yard where there is less going on. You could try things like getting one of those trickle feeder balls to put some chaff in, or even get a stable mirror.

As there is not a definitive reason as to why they do it, there isn't really a definitive reason how to stop them, but play around with things (slowly! Introduce a new feed slowly into his old one, and don't bombard a load of changes on him all at once) and see if you can find anything that makes a difference to him. And I'm sure he'll be a lot more appreciative of you trying to reduce his need to do it, than just forcing him not to.

O and I forgot, I find the paper below particuarly interesting as it theorises that horses that crib bite actually produce less saliva than "normal" horses, and that crib biting is a way of producing more saliva to buffer the acidic conditions in the stomach. This backs up the need for a high roughage diet to produce saliva through more constant chewing, and also makes the use of antacids rational.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0737080608000178

I doubt he'll ever completely stop as habit is an element to it, but if he doesn't so what???
 
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thanks everyone , i have read everything and i know alot of you dont like the collars but when i first got her that was what she had and ive just used that so far and cribbing spray which doesnt work, her collar doesnt hurt her as it is covered in sheepskin. we reboarded her stable - to the roof and she has lickits , i think i will just keep her with the collar for just now till hings come.

i will go get a mirror and i do try to keep her out as long as i can but im a softie as she doesnt like the cold so i take her in anyway. she goes out at 7am and normally in about 7. 30 8 deppending on the weather. :)

she is on apple chaff and course mix just now but i soak it in water , in winter she normaly gets sugar beet as well but my other horse is going onto calm and condition so was going to try her on that too :) xxx thanks for all your advice
 
Keep them well turned out and wel worked, make sure he/she can see other horses and possibly put a radio in the yard if possible to releive him/her of the stress, most importantly, dont let the horse get fizzed up, make sure they have constant forage (hay/haylage) to occupy them. Also make sure they have time each day to act like a horse, eg turnout. it is also important that you dedicate time each day to exercise them as this can prevent boredom, by breaking the day up and preferably devise a daily routine so that the horse will relieve its stress, hope this helps,
 
First of all does she actually windsuck or does she crib bite? They are similar but a crib bitter always needs something to hold onto while inhaling air. If she cribs then that is an easier thing to prevent than windsucking

I feel very strongly about the management of horses with these "vices". A horse that weaves does so to relieve stress so i don't think we should stop a horse doing something if it helps them

If your horse cribs then there are defo more problems that can be caused by this such as damage to teeth etc. But please remove the collar they are horrible things. Make her environment as free from anything she can crib on. Even remove string from tie up area in her stable as you can put a loop of string between headcollar and rope that has the same effect.

I have heard some very good reports about Settlex as already said above. Please try all these things before u have to resort back to a barbaric cribbing collar
 
I have an exracer, he windsucks and box walks . I have had him for 3 years and he has always worn a miracle collar. Whe he is resting and grazing the collar does not apply pressure to him. He is out 24/7 for 8 months of the year . He only windsucks in the field when near a gate (fencing electrified), when the other horses rest he windsucks if he is not wearing a collar, when his collar is on he just rests with the other horses.

Management helps when he is in the stable as he box walks and windsucks went he is waiting for food. I always try to feed him after a doing something like mucking out so that he does not wait in anticipation for me to arrive and feed. I have found this has really helped him. He wears a collar in the stable too.

He does not box walk any more or less if wearing his collar. I deduce from this that using the collar to disuade him from windsucking does not cause distress to him. As I know that if stressed his box walking certainly increase.

Once again when grazing/eating hay from the floor, or just resting the collar is not putting any pressure on him. It is only when he raises his head high to the gate/door and actually goes to windsucks that pressure is applied.

I have only written this as, I feel strongly that in my case of my the collar does work. I certainly feel I am not being cruel and I would like to point out it can be an positive management aid.
 
I have an ex-racer that windsucks - well did when I got him a month ago.. When he first came to me he tried windsucking on the side of the door he was that desperate! Now he doesn't do it at all :)

I got advice from here :) He is now turned out as long as possible, on a high fibre diet (previously had mix AND barley :(), he has ad-lib hay or haylage and YO puts Cribbox on the fence posts to deter him from breaking the fence.

I, personally, wouldn't use a collar - this is preventing the vice, not managing the issue!
 
Sorry I disagree with some of the above. We had a 6 yr old TB who cribbed, he didn't have ulcers, he had lots of turn out, good diet etc. We took the advice of people not to use a collar and he promptly coliced several times. He had to have colic surgery and after 2 years we sadly lost him in 2010.

Everytime he was allowed to crib he colic or was at the very least was uncomfortable. We did find we minimised his need to windsuck with adlib hay, keeping him busy and a good diet. However he did have to wear a collar when he was in his stable or in an area where he could crib. We stopped using the miracle collar as it seemed to cause him stress due to its tightness and rubbing, the standard one worked best for us with a sheepskin cover. In a perfect world we wouldn't have used a collar but it would have meant losing him sooner.

Every vet we spoke to had a different opinion on if cribbing/wind sucking caused colic, my personal opinion is that it varies from horse to horse and the best way is to do all the health checks and find what works for your horse.

We were part of a very large research programme carried out at Liverpool Vet College, maybe contact them?
 
Does your horse windsuck when she is turned out? If not, would it not be better to for her to be out 24/7?
I have an ex-racehorse who lives out all the time and provided they are well rugged and have ad-lib hay they manage perfectly fine. Mine positely thrives, even last winter with all that snow. If I have to bring him in, even for a short time he constantly nods his head up and down and is clearly unhappy.

You say you are a 'softie' but I'm sure if given the choice, your horse would rather be out in a field than stand for 11 1/2 hours in a stable with a tight collar on. I may be wrong and your horse may crib just as much in the field, but the one's I've known have always been better when turned out, rather than be placed in a confined environment which seems to encourage them to carry out their vice.

I realise not everyone has the right land to turn their horses out 24/7 or are at yards that don't allow it, but if you are somewhere where you can do this I would consider it as an option.
 
i have a horse that windsucks when bored mainly in the stable. I find he doesnt do it when turned out or having had alot of turn out and is on a high fibre diet and he wears a nutcracker type collar i found the miracle collar not very good. My horse has never colicd and has evented up to intermediate. It is very much just his personality.
 
MagicMelon said:
Yes, turn the horse out. Leave it out permanently and dont stable it. IMO that'll help hugely, certainly helped with one I bought a few years back.
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I wish this helped my boy, he hates being turned out and cribs more in the fields than his stable! (he's a bit odd I know) I'm with Kittyk, one size remedy doesn't fit all and it's a matter of trial/error and vet advice sometimes...
 
If I leave one of my cribbers out collarless 24/7 he will drop weight. Purely because he cannot graze as he feels the need to crib. Put the collar on, his head is down, collar is loose, and said horse is behaving like a horse and happy.
Whilst I like the sentiment that collars should be avoided I think you need to see when they actually work and help so you can see the otherside of the coin. Another cribber I have does it with or without the collar. Turnout or not, it's just what he does.
If you get the horse before the vice is completely instilled in them I think you can help them 'forget' by management. But if the collar helps keep the horse happy and relaxed, holding their weight and behaving like horses should behave, how can you say they are unnacceptable and cruel?
What works with one may not work with another. But please don't force my lad to give his collar up, he's a happier beastie with it on.
 
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