wind turbines and horses

Sorry for the long post but this should hopefully clear up a few common misstruths about wind turbines. Quoted from British wind energy assosiation (BWEA) set up to regulate the wind industry.

The rest of the article can be found on this page
http://www.bwea.com/energy/myths.html

1.Myth: Tens of thousands of wind turbines will be cluttering the British countryside
Fact: Government legislation requires that by 2010, 10% of electricity supply must come from renewable sources. Wind power is currently the most cost effective renewable energy technology in a position to help do that. Around 3,500 additional modern wind turbines are all that would be needed to deliver 8% of the UK's electricity by 2010, roughly 2,000 onshore and 1,500 offshore.
2.Myth: Wind farms won't help climate change
Fact: Wind power is a clean, renewable source of energy which produces no greenhouse gas emissions or waste products. The UK currently emits 560 million tonnes of carbon dioxide (CO2), the key greenhouse gas culprit, every year and the Government target is to cut this by 60% by 2050. Power stations are the largest contributor to carbon emissions, producing 170 million tonnes of CO2 each year. We need to switch to forms of energy that do not produce CO2. Just one modern wind turbine will save over 2,000 tonnes of CO2 emissions annually.
3.Myth: Building a wind farm takes more energy than it ever makes
Fact: The average wind farm will pay back the energy used in its manufacture within 3-5 months of operation. This compares favourably with coal or nuclear power stations, which take about six months. A modern wind turbine is designed to operate for more than 20 years and at the end of its working life, the area can be restored at low financial and environmental costs. Wind energy is a form of development which is essentially reversible – in contrast to fossil fuel or nuclear power stations.
4.Myth: Wind farms are inefficient and only work 30% of the time
Fact: A modern wind turbine produces electricity 70-85% of the time, but it generates different outputs depending on the wind speed. Over the course of a year, it will typically generate about 30% of the theoretical maximum output. This is known as its load factor. The load factor of conventional power stations is on average 50% . A modern wind turbine will generate enough to meet the electricity demands of more than a thousand homes over the course of a year.
7.Myth: Wind power is expensive
Fact: The cost of generating electricity from wind has fallen dramatically over the past few years. Between 1990 and 2002, world wind energy capacity doubled every three years and with every doubling prices fell by 15%. Wind energy is competitive with new coal and new nuclear capacity, even before any environmental costs of fossil fuel and nuclear generation are taken into account. The average cost of generating electricity from onshore wind is now around 3-4p per kilowatt hour, competitive with new coal (2.5-4.5p) and cheaper than new nuclear (4-7p). As gas prices increase and wind power costs fall – both of which are very likely – wind becomes even more competitive, so much so that some time after 2010 wind should challenge gas as the lowest cost power source.
Furthermore, the wind is a free and widely available fuel source, therefore once the wind farm is in place, there are no fuel or waste related costs.
8. Myth: The UK should invest in other renewable energy technologies and energy efficiency instead of wind power
Fact: Wind energy's role in combating climate change is not a matter of either/or. The UK will need a mix of new and existing renewable energy technologies and energy efficiency measures, and as quickly as possible. Significant amounts of investment have been allocated for wave and tidal energy development, and these technologies, along with solar and biomass energy, will have an important role in the UK's future energy mix. However, wind energy is the most cost effective renewable energy technology available to generate clean electricity and help combat climate change right now. Furthermore, developing a strong wind industry will facilitate other renewable technologies which have not reached commercialisation yet, accumulating valuable experience in dealing with issues such as grid connection, supply chain and finance.
10. Myth: Wind farms are ugly and unpopular
Fact: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and whether you think a wind turbine is attractive or not will always be your personal opinion. However, studies regularly show that most people find turbines an interesting feature of the landscape. On average 80% of the public support wind energy, less than 10% are against it, with the remainder undecided. Surveys conducted since the early 1990's across the country near existing wind farms have consistently found that most people are in favour of wind energy , with support increasing among those living closer to the wind farms.
11. Myth: Wind farms negatively affect tourism
Fact: There is no evidence to suggest this. The UK's first commercial wind farm at Delabole received 350,000 visitors in its first ten years of operation, while 10,000 visitors a year come to take the turbine tour at the EcoTech Centre in Swaffham, Norfolk. A MORI poll in Scotland showed that 80% of tourists would be interested in visiting a wind farm. Wind farm developers are often asked to provide visitor centres, viewing platforms and rights of way to their sites.
13. Myth: Wind farms kill birds
Fact: The RSPB stated in its 2004 information leaflet Wind farms and birds, that "in the UK, we have not so far witnessed any major adverse effects on birds associated with wind farms". Wind farms are always subject to an Environmental Impact Assessment and BWEA members follow the industry's Best Practice Guidelines and work closely with organisations such as English Nature and the RSPB to ensure that wind farm design and layout does not interfere with sensitive species or wildlife designated sites. Moreover, a recent report published in the journal Nature confirmed that the greatest threat to bird populations in the UK is climate change.
14. Myth: Wind farms are dangerous to humans
Fact: Wind energy is a benign technology with no associated emissions, harmful pollutants or waste products. In over 25 years and with more than 68,000 machines installed around the world, no member of the public has ever been harmed by the normal operation of wind turbines. In response to recent unscientific accusations that wind turbines emit infrasound and cause associated health problems, Dr Geoff Leventhall, Consultant in Noise Vibration and Acoustics and author of the Defra Report on Low Frequency Noise and its Effects, says: "I can state quite categorically that there is no significant infrasound from current designs of wind turbines. To say that there is an infrasound problem is one of the hares which objectors to wind farms like to run. There will not be any effects from infrasound from the turbines."
15. Myth: Wind farms are noisy
Fact: The evolution of wind farm technology over the past decade has rendered mechanical noise from turbines almost undetectable with the main sound being the aerodynamic swoosh of the blades passing the tower. There are strict guidelines on wind turbines and noise emissions to ensure the protection of residential amenity. These are contained in the scientifically informed ETSU Working Group guidelines 1996 and must be followed by wind farm developers, as referenced in national planning policy for renewables. The best advice for any doubter is to go and hear for yourself!

And as I have said before my OH works on the wind industry and would be happy to answer any other questions you may have.
And lastly Sorry for any thread hi-jacking! :)
 
Thanks to the last poster. Unfortunately I cannot agree with with some of the "facts". I certainly have been up close and personal with 4 windfarms and maybe my hearing is extra sensitive but I found the noise excessive, especially the "gearing" noise.Viewing windfarms from afar or visiting 1 out of interest is very different to living next door to 1!

Perhaps because I was involved in an objection to a proposed windfarm with absolutely no personal gain, I am biased?, altho, we won our objection and could prove this development could NEVER have paid for itself in energy terms, the powers that be had to eventually admit to the futility of the proposed development. That only happened after a huge effort and over £30,000 was raised by the local people to be able to employ professional help near to matching the "experts" employed by the developers who had everything to gain. Maybe not all developers are quite a blatent in their attempts to mislead the residents of an area who were going to have to live with these things 24/7? I agree SOME windfarms in the RIGHT location, have their place in helping our energy needs, but our Island is small, can it be right to erect windfarms in unsuitable locations just to "make up the numbers" which some politicians has decided upon, when they are of little or no benefit to anyone other than the developers and the landowners?

I too apologise for using this forum to hopefully make others question the viability of certain proposed windfarms, altho as a horse owner I am thrilled and very relieved that I didn't have to trust the developer's word that my horses would "love" the flicker effect and "not be bothered" by noise, vibration or unusual shadows.
 
Sorry for the long post but this should hopefully clear up a few common misstruths about wind turbines. Quoted from British wind energy assosiation (BWEA) set up to regulate the wind industry.

The rest of the article can be found on this page
http://www.bwea.com/energy/myths.html

1.Myth: Tens of thousands of wind turbines will be cluttering the British countryside
Fact: Government legislation requires that by 2010, 10% of electricity supply must come from renewable sources. Wind power is currently the most cost effective renewable energy technology in a position to help do that. Around 3,500 additional modern wind turbines are all that would be needed to deliver 8% of the UK's electricity by 2010, roughly 2,000 onshore and 1,500 offshore.
2.Myth: Wind farms won't help climate change
Fact: Wind power is a clean, renewable source of energy which produces no greenhouse gas emissions or waste products. The UK currently emits 560 million tonnes of carbon dioxide (CO2), the key greenhouse gas culprit, every year and the Government target is to cut this by 60% by 2050. Power stations are the largest contributor to carbon emissions, producing 170 million tonnes of CO2 each year. We need to switch to forms of energy that do not produce CO2. Just one modern wind turbine will save over 2,000 tonnes of CO2 emissions annually.
3.Myth: Building a wind farm takes more energy than it ever makes
Fact: The average wind farm will pay back the energy used in its manufacture within 3-5 months of operation. This compares favourably with coal or nuclear power stations, which take about six months. A modern wind turbine is designed to operate for more than 20 years and at the end of its working life, the area can be restored at low financial and environmental costs. Wind energy is a form of development which is essentially reversible – in contrast to fossil fuel or nuclear power stations.
4.Myth: Wind farms are inefficient and only work 30% of the time
Fact: A modern wind turbine produces electricity 70-85% of the time, but it generates different outputs depending on the wind speed. Over the course of a year, it will typically generate about 30% of the theoretical maximum output. This is known as its load factor. The load factor of conventional power stations is on average 50% . A modern wind turbine will generate enough to meet the electricity demands of more than a thousand homes over the course of a year.
7.Myth: Wind power is expensive
Fact: The cost of generating electricity from wind has fallen dramatically over the past few years. Between 1990 and 2002, world wind energy capacity doubled every three years and with every doubling prices fell by 15%. Wind energy is competitive with new coal and new nuclear capacity, even before any environmental costs of fossil fuel and nuclear generation are taken into account. The average cost of generating electricity from onshore wind is now around 3-4p per kilowatt hour, competitive with new coal (2.5-4.5p) and cheaper than new nuclear (4-7p). As gas prices increase and wind power costs fall – both of which are very likely – wind becomes even more competitive, so much so that some time after 2010 wind should challenge gas as the lowest cost power source.
Furthermore, the wind is a free and widely available fuel source, therefore once the wind farm is in place, there are no fuel or waste related costs.
8. Myth: The UK should invest in other renewable energy technologies and energy efficiency instead of wind power
Fact: Wind energy's role in combating climate change is not a matter of either/or. The UK will need a mix of new and existing renewable energy technologies and energy efficiency measures, and as quickly as possible. Significant amounts of investment have been allocated for wave and tidal energy development, and these technologies, along with solar and biomass energy, will have an important role in the UK's future energy mix. However, wind energy is the most cost effective renewable energy technology available to generate clean electricity and help combat climate change right now. Furthermore, developing a strong wind industry will facilitate other renewable technologies which have not reached commercialisation yet, accumulating valuable experience in dealing with issues such as grid connection, supply chain and finance.
10. Myth: Wind farms are ugly and unpopular
Fact: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and whether you think a wind turbine is attractive or not will always be your personal opinion. However, studies regularly show that most people find turbines an interesting feature of the landscape. On average 80% of the public support wind energy, less than 10% are against it, with the remainder undecided. Surveys conducted since the early 1990's across the country near existing wind farms have consistently found that most people are in favour of wind energy , with support increasing among those living closer to the wind farms.
11. Myth: Wind farms negatively affect tourism
Fact: There is no evidence to suggest this. The UK's first commercial wind farm at Delabole received 350,000 visitors in its first ten years of operation, while 10,000 visitors a year come to take the turbine tour at the EcoTech Centre in Swaffham, Norfolk. A MORI poll in Scotland showed that 80% of tourists would be interested in visiting a wind farm. Wind farm developers are often asked to provide visitor centres, viewing platforms and rights of way to their sites.
13. Myth: Wind farms kill birds
Fact: The RSPB stated in its 2004 information leaflet Wind farms and birds, that "in the UK, we have not so far witnessed any major adverse effects on birds associated with wind farms". Wind farms are always subject to an Environmental Impact Assessment and BWEA members follow the industry's Best Practice Guidelines and work closely with organisations such as English Nature and the RSPB to ensure that wind farm design and layout does not interfere with sensitive species or wildlife designated sites. Moreover, a recent report published in the journal Nature confirmed that the greatest threat to bird populations in the UK is climate change.
14. Myth: Wind farms are dangerous to humans
Fact: Wind energy is a benign technology with no associated emissions, harmful pollutants or waste products. In over 25 years and with more than 68,000 machines installed around the world, no member of the public has ever been harmed by the normal operation of wind turbines. In response to recent unscientific accusations that wind turbines emit infrasound and cause associated health problems, Dr Geoff Leventhall, Consultant in Noise Vibration and Acoustics and author of the Defra Report on Low Frequency Noise and its Effects, says: "I can state quite categorically that there is no significant infrasound from current designs of wind turbines. To say that there is an infrasound problem is one of the hares which objectors to wind farms like to run. There will not be any effects from infrasound from the turbines."
15. Myth: Wind farms are noisy
Fact: The evolution of wind farm technology over the past decade has rendered mechanical noise from turbines almost undetectable with the main sound being the aerodynamic swoosh of the blades passing the tower. There are strict guidelines on wind turbines and noise emissions to ensure the protection of residential amenity. These are contained in the scientifically informed ETSU Working Group guidelines 1996 and must be followed by wind farm developers, as referenced in national planning policy for renewables. The best advice for any doubter is to go and hear for yourself!

And as I have said before my OH works on the wind industry and would be happy to answer any other questions you may have.
And lastly Sorry for any thread hi-jacking! :)

What a absulute load of unproven biased misleading tosh ........
 
In response to Cptrays, next question!:)

If wind farms are being erected as being the "green" answer, how is it that there are wind farms which have been proposed which would never generate as much energy as it would take to build them, presuming they ran at full capacity for their 25 year lifetime? This to me doesn't make sense. Obviously there are sites which are suitable but perhaps they are now getting thin on the ground and totally unsuitable sites are being given the go ahead to satify the Government's/EU targets?


Electricity being stored, how large would the batteries need to be to supply the National Grid? and how much would they cost in energy terms to build?

I would be very interested in learning more about the problem of supply of Uranium, perhaps you could advise a website where I could read some facts about this please.
good question...and there is more uranium than we could ever use www.world-nuclear.org
 
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The site you quote represents 180 companies that make their profits from the nuclear power industry - what else are they going to say?

You need to look at what the geologists say, not the people whose businesses will die overnight if the forecasts for uranium mining done by geologists are correct.

The reference site you need to look at is called Google, and dig, questionning all the time what advantage the person or organisation providing the information might have in doing so.
 
In response to Cptrays, next question!:)

If wind farms are being erected as being the "green" answer, how is it that there are wind farms which have been proposed which would never generate as much energy as it would take to build them, presuming they ran at full capacity for their 25 year lifetime? This to me doesn't make sense. Obviously there are sites which are suitable but perhaps they are now getting thin on the ground and totally unsuitable sites are being given the go ahead to satify the Government's/EU targets?


Electricity being stored, how large would the batteries need to be to supply the National Grid? and how much would they cost in energy terms to build?

I would be very interested in learning more about the problem of supply of Uranium, perhaps you could advise a website where I could read some facts about this please.

Which bit do you not understand about this being a learning stage? Can you tell me how good battery technology will be in another 20 years? Solar panels are now vastly more efficient than they were a few years ago. We are in a learning stage. Wind power is part of that. You can't stop it.

You guys who are so much in favour of nuclear and so much against wind - are you volunteering your neighbourhood for the next nuclear power station, cos they ain't pretty! Or are you just assuming it will be somewhere far away from you? What do you propose to do about the nuclear waste - continue to carry it around on the roads to find somewhere to process it? Do you want that processing plant (Sellafield) on your doorstep? Are you including decommissioning a radioactive factory in your costs of cheap fuel? The argument can go on and on and on.

One other thing that will go on is wind power. Get used to it.
 
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On a positive note... I think multi-use of windfarm areas is potentially quite interesting - the areas could potentially be used for biking, running, dog walking... If horses don't react to it, then perhaps it could be used for equestrian purposes as well. With so many hacking routes disappearing, perhaps it is worth looking into.
 
From home I can see 2 windfarms
In the recent cold snap they were barely turning, one day I noticed they were all stationary perhaps because of ice build up
Windfarms on their own cannot supply our power unless massive storage can be invented.

I was part of the BHS Scotland visit to Whitelees windfarm in Lanarkshire
I did not find them noisy but it was not a windy day, they were turning, the plant I think was about 30% efficiency that day, it rarely gets anywhere near 100%

The local riding school demonstrated riding under the turbines--literally--but the day was dull--no sunshine to cause shadows.
The RS were pleased to have this access available
They did say if they were riding and noticed a turbine which had been stopped, but was about to restart, they held back until it was turning freely.

One of my friends went on a different visit and she suffered a migraine and had to leave the area

Every horse and person will have different reactions but from the visit I went on I understand most horses get used to this scenario very quickly.
 
In response to Cptrays.Perhaps you didn't read my post re stopping a proposed windfarm? when well researched, and time taken "the little people " can stop windfarms being built where they are totally inappropriate for everyone except the developers and landowner . I am NOT a nimbie as you seem to rather aggressively suggest. I was IN FAVOUR of wind generated power until I found out some FACTS.
I wasn't the person who suggested that batteries could be the answer to the old chestnut of being able to store electricity, I perhaps thought you had some FACTS about any R and D which was being done to see if they were viable in the long run? Batteries I believe, need lead, is that not dangerous to the enviroment and us? I think there were good reasons were there not? for pipes in our houses not being made with lead any longer Something about lead posioning comes to mind!!!!!! If however you know more about how there is "early days" technology, then I'd be delighted for some FACTS about it. Maybe batteries can now be built without using lead? as otherwise the disposal of them could be a huge headache, could it not?
As I have said before I personally have absolutely no involvement/personal gain in wind farms other than when fighting a proposed 1 near to where I live, which cost us little people a great deal of money to do so. Indeed I personally would have not been affected that badly (well as far as I know anyway!) but took the trouble to find out real FACTS as to just how efficient wind power is and was horrified with the results. I do take exception to being classed as a nimbie just because I and many of our neighbourhood were able to PROVE a development was nothing other than a money making exercise which was going to adversely affect 100s of people in the process and go a long way to destroying excellant green belt. Fortunately the "judge" who may well have been under pressure from his bosses (the government) to let the development proceed, couldn't argue with FACT. Wind power by it's very nature can NEVER be anything other than a back up to other sources of electricty and it has failed to deliver twice when most needed in the last 2 years....... admitted by the electricty companies themselves, FACT.

1 FACT that should be considered before many people decide to erect their own personal mini (90ft high isn't exactly mini) turbines is that it has been proven that turbines are responsible for killing 1000s of bats every year. Ok bats aren't exactly my favourite creature either! They hit the blades and also rapid movement of air with blades at times moving at over 100mph. gives bats the equivilent of the bends a la in diving.So are bats an important species? Well firstly they are protected by law and secondly 1 bat can eat up to 3000 insects a night travelling up th 14k in the process. If wind turbines become as frequently erected as say Sky dishes, are we not going to see an enormous increase in the insect population which is due to increase anyway with "global warming". I thought it was the slightly "nutty brigade" who were jumping up and down about the threat to bats. Understanding how useful they are to the enviroment now, I have changed my opinion!

If you would be as good to give me some actual sites to refer to re the depleting Uranium, I would be grateful.
 
Just to add something into the mix, the French are building wind farms like nobodys business, this despite having a strong pro-nuclear popoulation. If nuclear is the answer, why are they doing this?

As far it goes, I would much rather have a wind farm than a nuclear power station in my back yard! The power stations are ugly and hazardous to live near, if a turbine breaksdown someone comes to fix it, if a power station goes pop then......
 
We have them all over Cornwall and our Opening Meet is on a site, some of the horses are a little nervous of them when they first see them, my old little pony was so cute and used to jump the reflections when the sun was out, :) but I would be to worried there not that noisey and they will get use to them.
 
Going back to the original post, we live about half a mile away from a large 60kw wind turbine and have our own 6kw turbine on the farm.

None of the horses are worried in the slightest and I have a very sensitive, spooky TBx along with several youngsters at various stages of education.

Noise from the larger turbine is just a mild whoomph which is only heard if the wind is from a certain direction and speed - probably noticeable about once a month on average. Our smaller turbine produces more noise but again dependent on wind speed and direction. Most of the time you don't notice either.

We also have two nice big pylons running across the farmland which hum and buzz all day long. Given the choice of the two, I'd far rather opt for an elegant wind turbine.
 
If you would be as good to give me some actual sites to refer to re the depleting Uranium, I would be grateful.

If you PM me with an email address (I post under my own name and don't like to get into detailed discussions with people who will not let me know who they are) then I will get my source to tell me the address of a site you can look it up on. There is plenty of uranium in the world but what I should have said was "recoverable uranium". At the moment we have to mine 10,000 tons of rock to get 1 ton of uranium and that situation is getting worse and worse. At some point, it becomes impossible to obtain the uranium for less power than it will create.
 
[QUOTE In response to Cptrays.

You said: Batteries I believe, need lead, is that not dangerous to the enviroment and us?

Answer: Not true. Electric cars do not use lead batteries, neither does your mobile phone. Even if they did, a lump of lead in a box is easy to dispose of responsibly, nuclear waste is extremely hazardous and difficult and expensive. Lead poisoning is from lead dust, breathing in sanded down paint for example, and dissolved lead in the water in old pipes. The pipes are not dangerous until you drink water which has stood in them all night. They are safe as long as you flush fresh water through them before drinking it.

You said: Wind power by it's very nature can NEVER be anything other than a back up to other sources of electricty and it has failed to deliver twice when most needed in the last 2 years....... admitted by the electricty companies themselves, FACT.

Answer: It has not failed to deliver. There were times when the wind was not blowing, yes. It was always known that this would be the case, it's hardly a surprise, no one ever planned for them to generate power 24/7 Wind power HAS delivered - it has delivered sufficient energy already to be able to prevent the building of one power station. There is one community somewhere in this country which is not blighted by a power station and I'll bet that community, if they knew who they were, would be very grateful for those wind turbines. It was never meant to be any more than one facet of a renewables policy, and it will continue to do that job.

You said: 1 FACT that should be considered before many people decide to erect their own personal mini (90ft high isn't exactly mini) turbines is that it has been proven that turbines are responsible for killing 1000s of bats every year.

Answer: Not in this country. The problem with bats and birds is substantially in the US because the heat generated by their huge turbines in large farms attract insects, as does the white colour. Birds and bats congregate to eat the insects. They are working hard on combatting this, as I found out only last night by a quick google. Bats can be deterred very well by radar. Bats and birds can be deterred by getting rid of the insects that are attracted to the white colour and the warmth of the turbines. There is active research going on in how to do this. I do not believe that single wind 30kw brown turbines which are the standard for a personal supply create any problem with birds or bats, but I would be happy to read any well researched evidence that you have that they do.


[/QUOTE]

Clearly there are inappropriate places to put turbines and I am very glad to see that technological advances are allowing them to be built in very difficult, corrosive environments like out at sea. To me, this is clearly the future, together with personal micro-generation. But as others have said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and personally I think that turbines are very attractive, like sculptures. I can see Saddleworth Moor windfarm when I ride and I like it. If a wind farm was built near me which opened up the land for horse-riders (it's already open access for walkers) I would be delighted.
 
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I had this conversation with a friend only last week because a small wind farm is proposed straddling the Jack Mytton Way in Shropshire. She said that she could be passed by a line of HGVs, a couple of police cars with their sirens going, and a boy-racer with an open exhaust and her horse wouldn't flick an ear. A couple of hundred yards up the road and a whisper of a breeze wafting a sweet paper in the gutter and she could find herself on her back on the verge and the horse bolting towards oncoming cars. In other words, horses (like people) can be unpredictable in their reaction to different things. Good days, bad days.



It's always worth reading around this subject. Try these for starters...

In this|: http://www.bhs.org.uk/Riding/Riding_Off_Road/Consultations/Consultation_Responses.aspx ... check out the section headed:

Consultation on Draft National Policy Statements for Energy Infrastructure.

And then read through:

http://docs.wind-watch.org/windfarmconsultation.ppt

(You may have to copy and paste that last one into either the url address bar or into the search engine - it's a PowerPoint document presenting the responses to the BHS questionnaire. Makes interesting reading.)

Despite the recommended 200 metre setback distance from turbines in the government Planning Policy Statement 22 (PPS22), the developers of the Jack Mytton Way scheme are siting the turbines 150metres from the main tourist/ride route AND a second bridleway from Underton to Meadowley. Asked by regular riders of that route about the potential risk to horse riders, the landowner shrugged and walked off.
 
[QUOTE In response to Cptrays.

You said: Batteries I believe, need lead, is that not dangerous to the enviroment and us?

Answer: Not true. Electric cars do not use lead batteries, neither does your mobile phone. Even if they did, a lump of lead in a box is easy to dispose of responsibly, nuclear waste is extremely hazardous and difficult and expensive. Lead poisoning is from lead dust, breathing in sanded down paint for example, and dissolved lead in the water in old pipes. The pipes are not dangerous until you drink water which has stood in them all night. They are safe as long as you flush fresh water through them before drinking it.

You said: Wind power by it's very nature can NEVER be anything other than a back up to other sources of electricty and it has failed to deliver twice when most needed in the last 2 years....... admitted by the electricty companies themselves, FACT.

Answer: It has not failed to deliver. There were times when the wind was not blowing, yes. It was always known that this would be the case, it's hardly a surprise, no one ever planned for them to generate power 24/7 Wind power HAS delivered - it has delivered sufficient energy already to be able to prevent the building of one power station. There is one community somewhere in this country which is not blighted by a power station and I'll bet that community, if they knew who they were, would be very grateful for those wind turbines. It was never meant to be any more than one facet of a renewables policy, and it will continue to do that job.

You said: 1 FACT that should be considered before many people decide to erect their own personal mini (90ft high isn't exactly mini) turbines is that it has been proven that turbines are responsible for killing 1000s of bats every year.

Answer: Not in this country. The problem with bats and birds is substantially in the US because the heat generated by their huge turbines in large farms attract insects, as does the white colour. Birds and bats congregate to eat the insects. They are working hard on combatting this, as I found out only last night by a quick google. Bats can be deterred very well by radar. Bats and birds can be deterred by getting rid of the insects that are attracted to the white colour and the warmth of the turbines. There is active research going on in how to do this. I do not believe that single wind 30kw brown turbines which are the standard for a personal supply create any problem with birds or bats, but I would be happy to read any well researched evidence that you have that they do.

Clearly there are inappropriate places to put turbines and I am very glad to see that technological advances are allowing them to be built in very difficult, corrosive environments like out at sea. To me, this is clearly the future, together with personal micro-generation. But as others have said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and personally I think that turbines are very attractive, like sculptures. I can see Saddleworth Moor windfarm when I ride and I like it. If a wind farm was built near me which opened up the land for horse-riders (it's already open access for walkers) I would be delighted.[/QUOTE]

thats right about electric cars not useing lead they use something far more damaging to the envronment !!! and as for wind farms they are inefcient and costly unless its for an off grid supply, the sooner the subsdy for this con is ended the better !!!! as they are so good and effcient they wont need it anyway !!!!
 
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