Windsucking....

FlyingCoo

FlyingCoo

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Have a 3 1/2 yr old that has always windsucked. More habit than anything as hoped when he started work he may have given up on it so much!! Hey ho.
Do the collars work or does anyone have any other remedies?
 
i used to have a mare that did it years ago,:o
she had a colar on 24/7 and even though it doesnt stop them doing it, the collar cuts down the amount of air they suck in.
so yes they do work but doesnt stop the problem
 
I had a Horse that windsucked and cribbed like crazy. A lot of research I found suggested it was not so much a vice as was previously thought but caused by gastric ulcers or acid reflux type issues. It is thought to be brought on by feeding high concentrate feed, not enough access to grazing and incresed stress (such as competion/lots of travelling).
Unfortunalty I cannot find the article I read at the time!! I will try and find them and post the links.
I'm not sure on the situation in which you keep your horse or how he is fed. But when we got my horse. we stopped feeding anything high in concentrates or containing mollasses or too much suger, and put him on Settlex from feedmark. This stuff is brilliant!! He got as much time out grazing as physically possible. and then to break the habit he had aquirred we opened his door when we fed him (as this is when he used to do it most) and put a door chaani across so he had nothing to get hold of. We also gave him a treat ball, which gave him something to think about other than cribbing when he finished eating. All these things combined stopped his cribbing completely within a few months. Now he only does it if something really stresses him out, and we know when he does now there is something wrong with him.
Hope this helps some!
It is deffinately something that can be stopped if the root of the problem is found.
Emily
 
Windsucking is a stereotypical behaviour, like those terrible photos of polar bears rocking endlessly back and forth, back and forth, or tigers endlessly pacing back and forth over a small area. The original cause is unnatural (for the horse) management eg not enough turnout, no company, wrong diet etc etc. In a desperate attempt to cope with an unnatural lifestyle, the horse develops a stereotypical behaviour, which can include box walking, weaving, windsucking, cribbing and a thousand other abnormal repetitive behaviours. The behaviour releases endorphins in the horse's brain which is like a mild feel-good drug. That's why even if the horse is put onto a more horse-friendly lifestyle, they often still windsuck, weave etc etc though commonly at a much reduced level. Owners may find that the stereotypical behaviour pops up only at stressy times eg when his feed is coming or when he's last to be turned out etc. The thinking today is NOT to try to stop the stereotypical activity with things such as anti weave grilles, collars, Cribbox etc since denying the horse the tiny bit of comfort from the endorphins is cruel. What you need to do is to provide the best horsey lifestyle you can, ie tons of turnout with suitable company, fibre-rich diet, appropriate work levels, shelter from the elements, proper health and veterinary care etc etc etc. The happier the horse is, the less he'll windsuck although he will probably always do it a little. Like humans that eg start smoking at a stressful time in their lives but find it impossible to stop even after the original stressor has gone. Just accept that at some time in his life he's been under stress and try to give him a little understanding and flexibility x
 
Thanks for your replies... Unfortunately, this young chap is one of life's mysteries as he has been brought up like all the others and he is the only one that does it.I have his brother who I event and his other siblings all have been treated the same way and none of them do it.We cannot figure out anything that brought it on or caused it as he has had a stress free life so far. He has everything a horse could wish for......24/7 turnout with suitable company, fibre-rich diet, appropriate work levels,routine,shelter from the elements, proper health and veterinary care. That's why its slightly confusing as he is a happy healthy little chap.
(Did try the door chain but he is a terrific limbo dancer at any height!& The treat ball he just ignores or tries to suck that too!)

I can live with a windsucker as I know many can't but just wanted to know if it was worth trying a collar as he has all of the natural things recommended or just leave him to get on with it?
 
Echo B_o_F, it is now recommended NOT to use collars, because you are basically removing your horses stress relief mechanism, which can lead to even more psychological problems.

If you are happy to deal with a wind-sucker then I would let him get on with it, it sounds like he has good management so you never know he might improve as he realises that life isn't really that stressful!
 
Murphy88 said:
Echo B_o_F, it is now recommended NOT to use collars, because you are basically removing your horses stress relief mechanism, which can lead to even more psychological problems.

If you are happy to deal with a wind-sucker then I would let him get on with it, it sounds like he has good management so you never know he might improve as he realises that life isn't really that stressful!
Click to expand...

I have a cribber and having read lots (lots of useful info on here if you search through past posts too) and spoken to my vet, I wouldn't use a collar or Cribbox etc as this is thought to increase the stress levels in the horse. When I bought mine in Feb, I didn't know that he cribbed but it quickly became apparent! However, he is now settled and happy at our yard, he gets plenty of turn out and when he is in he has adlib hay and he only cribs in anticipation of hard feed. He's an exracer and raced in Hong Kong and hurdled over here so suffice to say, I think he has had a very stressful life in the past. My riding instructor has a 3 yr old WB and also owns his half brother. Both weave despite having had a really nice homes so it may be genetic too. I have just taken part in a cribbing / windsucking survey for Liverpool University so will be interesting to hear the outcome (s) of that
 
Ditto the above re use of a collar. I would never use one on my cribber - he arrived to me wearing one 24/7 and was in a horrific state.
He gets a high fibre, low sugar and starch diet where possible and access to as much turnout as possible along with adlib roughage when in.
It is possible to reduce the amount they crib. Gord used to be awful but is much better now. The only time he will want to do it is after a feed. He doesn't even bother with fence posts when turned out now.
Good thinking about leaving stable door open when feeding though - moving to new yard and will have a chain fitted now. :)
 
doris2008 said:
The only time he will want to do it is after a feed.
Click to expand...

When I was researching this the fact that they started up after being fed hard feed is because they have an unbalanced gut. The way I understand it its kind of like having acid reflux everytime you eat! And they start cribbing to relieve the discomfort. The best remedy we found for this was Settlex from feedmark, which Is kind of like powdered gaviscon I suppose. (I also know a friend who did just fed gaviscon cool mint tablets which seemed to do the same thing!)
After a few months of the settlex and feeding right etc we managed to balance everything out again and didnt need to feed it anymore. We now only feed it when he is going to be put under stress, as a preventative to stop it re-occuring.

Hope this may be of interest to some of you :)

Emily
 
I use a collar on my boy, but only in the stable. He was a severe neglect/abuse case before I took him on over 3 years ago, and had been let crib so badly that he literally has no front teeth left. They are worn down to the gumline, but he can still grab hold of a surface sufficiently to crib and windsuck.

He only does it during feed time now. In anticipation, during, and after. Then he's fine if he's occupied and in company. He cannot be left alone when stabled or turned out, as that was part of his neglected existence too, and he has terrible separation anxiety. (He was literally left alone for days on end with no hay/water :(:()

I used to wonder if the collar was uncomfortable, but he appears totally happy, and it's not done up overly tight. I associate his cribbing with sad times. When he's wearing his collar he doesn't even try to crib and he can eat, drink and sleep like he's not even wearing it. My vet agrees it's doing its job as it should and my horse is very content.
 
My friend had a windsucker/cribber, she would crib on her door or haynet if door was open and she would crib on the gate or fence posts whilst out in the field..... she had over 9 hours t/o in the winter, and lived out 24/7 in summer.

Friend refused to stop her windsucking/cribbing in any way, she just let her get on with it, but she was just a field ornament, and she had this HUGE belly (as if she was literally filled with air like a ballon!)
 
FlyingCoo said:
Thanks for your replies... Unfortunately, this young chap is one of life's mysteries as he has been brought up like all the others and he is the only one that does it.I have his brother who I event and his other siblings all have been treated the same way and none of them do it.We cannot figure out anything that brought it on or caused it as he has had a stress free life so far. He has everything a horse could wish for......24/7 turnout with suitable company, fibre-rich diet, appropriate work levels,routine,shelter from the elements, proper health and veterinary care. That's why its slightly confusing as he is a happy healthy little chap.
(Did try the door chain but he is a terrific limbo dancer at any height!& The treat ball he just ignores or tries to suck that too!)

I can live with a windsucker as I know many can't but just wanted to know if it was worth trying a collar as he has all of the natural things recommended or just leave him to get on with it?
Click to expand...

Gastric ulcers or irriation can occur in foals at weaning - and each horse is different, he may've just found the weaning process more stressful than his siblings - It's certainly something to consider?
Kate x
 
My ex racehorse does it. It is pure habit, like having a cig. She doesn't have any problems with her tummy, although that's not to say she didn't in the past.
I don't feed any cereals, and she doesn't have stress in her life as I keep her in a strict routine and she thrives on that.
The funny thing is, if she is stressed for any reason, she doesn't do it.
I got a miracle collar because the yard owner had a thing about it. She wore it once and I promised her I wouldn't put it on her again. I just moved yards and nobody there minds it. Nobody has copied her either!
 
H's mum said:
Gastric ulcers or irriation can occur in foals at weaning ....
Click to expand...

Exactly, so my guess this youngster has them in some form or another, whatever his lifestyle.

I bought a mare who sucked and have spent 12 months learning about it.

The most stupid thing is that no matter which drug/treatment/gadget you choose the only one that makes sense is the cheapest and not even a drug! Limestone flour. It's in all the gastro-drugs, anti-sucking feeds and so on, yet so few people work it out .... it's a fiver for a ruddy great big sack full and it DOES THE JOB!


Can I suggest you try a sack of limestone flour? Add a heaped wooden spoon per feed (I feed high fibre bland stuff that's dampened, twice daily) and see the difference. A sack lasts about five months I guess and although it looks nasty in feeds, they don't notice it at all. I tried all sorts of feed to mix it with and ended up with just plain chop, sometimes adding camomile tea as the liquid.

My wild stabs in the dark at sorting out my mare have worked on several other horses I know of too. Luckily, I can ask my pet food customers (I have a shop in a horsey area) if the have a sucker and that way I've been able to find out that limestone's lessened or stopped sucking in almost all the horses it's now been tried on.

Hope that helps. It's only a few quid .... worth a try?
 
Be careful of how you interpret articles linking gastric ulceration to cribbing....they are certainly linked but more often cribbing causes ulcers rather than vice versa - problem is it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation. You can treat ulceration easily but cribbing is a habit that is hard to shift.

Other than the collar there is is surgical treatment but fortunately it's not done too often. It works ok, (removal of a section of one of the muscles in the neck to prevent the neck from getting into the right position he needs to be in to crib!) but is not nice really and cosmetically unsightly.
 
I've read elsewhere that limestone flour can help - I have a 4yr old, and after reading some of the other advice am concerned he may be too young to try it? Any advice? Ta :)
 
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