Winergy Q.

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maddielove

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Looking at feeding my mare the Low Energy Winergy Feed but I was wondering (as it doesn't say on the site
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) if it is a sort of "complete feed" or like a mix to feed alongside chaff?

Thanks, Emma x
 
Possible gastric ulcers (see post in vets) plus its nice and low energy for a fatty! Have been feeding Allen and Page Slim and Healthy but I think this might be a bit better for her tum
 
Just be aware that there are no magic ingredients in the Winergy - the main constituents are chopped straw and dried grass! It is good for ulcers because it contains no cereals and has lots of fibre, but to be honest so does hay and that works out a lot cheaper!

One of the best ways to combat ulcers is to make sure the horse has hay available to eat at all times, so there is always fibre in the stomach.

Here is a link to more info about managing horses with ulcers:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horsecare/1370/122932.html
 
Its a pretty expensive way to feed a fibre diet IMHO. I looked into it but it just ended up far too expensive for what it was!

My boy has suspected ulcers and Ive changed him onto a base of Alfabeet/Fibrebeet with the TopSpec powdered supplement. He gets a splash of cider vinegar and a Veteran supplement from HiltonHerbs all mixed in and he is doing very well. Ad lib hay/haylage too.
 
Thanks for everyone's words of wisdom
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very helpful.
The price of it was something I had forgotten about I may just start her on Slim and healthy again as it is said to be "high fibre"
I am (depending on what the vets say on mon) going to start feeding Global Herbs' Acid-x for her stomach- if they don't think that gastro guard (or anything else prescribed) will be suitable.

Thanks again

Emma
 
i feed it an my horse does very well on it, he just has 1 and a1/2 scoops a day and is looking great and he is a tb.

my mare has the same amount of growth and has put on a good amount of weight and is starting to look good.

its not just fibre it has oils, vits and mins too.
 
Its wonderful stuff, has everything in it, smells gorgeous and my last horse used to love it. Fab for good doers, I don't think its that expensive, I paid £10 a bag which lasted some time as I found I didn't need nearly as much as they advise on the bag. Would def buy again.
 
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I don't think its that expensive, I paid £10 a bag which lasted some time as I found I didn't need nearly as much as they advise on the bag.

[/ QUOTE ] Winergy is sold in 15kg bags, which is smaller than the standard feed bag size of 20kg, so you have to take that into account when comparing prices. If you feed much less than the recommended amount, then you also have to be aware that you won't be feeding the full amount of vit/mins - in effect you are just feeding it as a chaff rather than a 'complete feed'.
 
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If you feed much less than the recommended amount, then you also have to be aware that you won't be feeding the full amount of vit/mins - in effect you are just feeding it as a chaff rather than a 'complete feed'.

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I don't think that is entirely fair TGM - you make it sound as though if you feed below the recommended rate of winergy that you may as well feed any old chaff rather than treat it as a complete feed and I don't accept that.

I feed it at well below the recommended rate to my novice eventer. Horse evented to PN on pony nuts and when he went Novice needed tiger oats adding for a few days before an event to give him the required stamina on the XC. With the Winergy medium energy, fed below the recommended rates, he needs nothing added, which suggests to me it is providing more than a simple chaff would provide in terms of energy. I agree on the vit/mineral point but have always thought that was a complete con by manufacturers anyway given that they cannot possibly know what your horse is getting in terms of forage, so how on earth do they know my horse can only get the vits/minerals required from his hard feed? He seems to survive perfectly well on below the recommended rates of winergy without a vit/mineral supplement and I don't think that it would be a direct swap for something like Hifi - Hifi has 10% protein, winergy medium has 12%; Hifi has 8MJ/kg digestable energy, winergy medium has 11.1; Hifi has 1.5% oil, winergy medium has 8.5%. So even fed below manufacturers rates, weight for weight he will get more energy from the winergy medium than from HiFi, and I would be surprised if the same were not true for other chaffs. For example, using Baileys Golden Chaff (which is chopped oat straw and molasses), you not only buy it in a 12.5kg bag, you also only get 7MJ/kg digestible energy and 4.7% protein.

I understand you feel Winergy is pushed by some people on here as the best feedstuff ever and a cure all for any feeding issue, but that does not mean it isn't a useful feed and it would be a shame if opinion went in the other direction rather than being balanced. It is very useful for the competition horse who has ulcers but needs more energy to cope with the demands of the work he is being asked to do, and I was advised to keep my horse on this by the vet who is treating him, so it isn't quite the snake oil that it is sometimes portrayed as (and not necessarily by you BTW!).
 
I quite agree that lots of horses don't need the recommended amounts of feed suggested by the manufacturers - my daughter's pony competes off just a handful of cubes most of the time. However, the point I was trying to make is that if you feed less than the recommended rate of ANY complete feed (be that economy cube or Winergy) then you are not getting the full dose of vit/mins added by the manufacturers and if you are feeding a complete feed for the purpose of supplying those, then it won't be doing the job you want it to! If you are aware of that fact it is fine, but I know loads of people give their horses a handful of a complete feed 'in order to make sure he gets all his vit/mins from it' - and a handful is not going to do that job!

As for chaffs, there are lots of different types - alfafa chaffs have high levels of protein and some have added oil as well (plus alfafa is thought to be advantageous for ulcers as it acts as a buffer in the gut). I know alfafa doesn't suit your horse though, so Winergy is a good option for you (even though a lot of the Winergy products contain alfafa).

I have nothing against Winergy feeds at all - but they are pushed by some as such a 'wonder feed' that I just want people to know the unbiased facts, so they can make up their own minds whether to feed it.
 
Winergy also has added probiotics, and I am a convert to it, having thought that it was merely glorified chaff, it is far better than that, far better.

I had a foal with growth plate issues that was totally transformed by a change of diet to the Winergy Growth, the coat was fabulous and his behaviour changed out of all recognition.

But I do use a small dose of a top up supplement as I never feed the rates quoted, and I have never needed to feed it at full rate.

I don't think it gets pushed on here any more than Top Spec, both have their devotees, and if owners are finding a product that works then they should be able to say so.
 
It appears to be Alfa-A which is the problem - I've been experimenting and so far he has not lost the plot on Winergy or on Countrywide's High Fibre Alfalfa chaff which he also now gets as alfalfa is good for ulcers - god knows what it is about alfa-a, but he can't deal with it!

Hifi is an alfalfa chaff - it still has lower levels of energy than the Winergy Medium. I appreciate what you mean about 'wonder feed'
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but was just commenting that there is a danger that it is beginning to sound like you do have something against Winergy feeds (rather than something against those people who feel the need to tell us that it will solve all our feeding problems and no other feedstuff needs to be on the market and anyone who doesn't feed it is clearly deranged - and I agree with you that there are people on here who are a little, ahem, too enthusiastic shall we say, about Winergy
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).
 
I do hope that I don't belong in the overenthusiastic brigade!

I feed it to those who need it and can benefit from it, others that don't require it carry on with their normal diets.
 
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I have nothing against Winergy feeds at all - but they are pushed by some as such a 'wonder feed' that I just want people to know the unbiased facts, so they can make up their own minds whether to feed it.

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... but if it has worked wonders on my horse, as it genuinely has, then I'm going to recommend it....

I feed Winergy and have for almost a year, my horse has been fantastic on it, I have never fed the recommended amount - as I have never had too, yet he has kept weight on, has lots of 'useful' energy and no longer seems to be bothered by his feed intollerances/ulcers, hence he is a happier pony to ride and handle.

I've known people it hasn't worked for, at the end of the day all horses are different, but genuinely its worked a treat for my lad and I will tell people if they ask...

OP - I would definately recommend giving it a go if your horse has gastric problems. My boy is Case Study 11 (I think!) on the website as he has intollerances. He has thrived on Winergy. I feed it once a day and mix a little unmollassed chaff in just to fill his bucket up a bit.
 
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but was just commenting that there is a danger that it is beginning to sound like you do have something against Winergy feeds

[/ QUOTE ] As I said before, I have nothing against the feeds, and am quite happy to be as 'unbiased' about other feeds that I feel are marketed in a way that is confusing to the consumer - for example, I often point out on here that lots of people think that Allen & Page Calm and Condition is cereal-free, because it is advertised as barley and oat free, but actually contains maize! I have also recently highlighted the fact that following the popularity of Spillers High Fibre Cubes (which are cereal-free) other manufacturers are rebranding their cubes as 'high fibre cubes' but many of them do contain cereals.

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rather than something against those people who feel the need to tell us that it will solve all our feeding problems and no other feedstuff needs to be on the market and anyone who doesn't feed it is clearly deranged - and I agree with you that there are people on here who are a little, ahem, too enthusiastic shall we say, about Winergy
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).

[/ QUOTE ] As you say, I don't like it when certain people use this forum to promote products without declaring they have a financial interest in it - probably the fact that this has happened with Winergy has meant I have investigated the product more than I would others!

I have never, ever said that Winergy is a bad feed, and in fact if you look at my first post on this thread I said "it is a good feed for ulcers"! And I have always said that I like the thinking behind these feeds being cereal-free and high fibre. But I do feel it is more expensive than it needs to be and they are using hype to inflate the price somewhat, as well as reducing the bag size, so people don't realise exactly how more expensive it is than other 'complete feeds'. Also, I am concerned that people could think that there is some 'magic' in the Winergy that means they don't have to address other factors in management for ulcers, such as access to adlib hay.

I also feel the recommended amount for the Low Energy feed is huge, for something designed as a 'complete feed' for good doers.
 
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I do hope that I don't belong in the overenthusiastic brigade!

[/ QUOTE ] Not at all, there is nothing wrong with 'genuine' consumers praising the products they use, but there have been cases on here when consultants for certain products have been posing as satisfied consumers without declaring they have a financial interest in the product (hence the advice in my signature)!
 
TGM I don't disagree with you really, I think your points are very valid.

For me it doesn't work out as an expensive feed because I give ad lib hay, 24/7 turnout in the summer and every day in the winter and he novice events off half a scoop, which is 375g of feed, meaning a sack lasts me 40 days and costs me about 25p a day to feed. (Yes, I have worked it all out - OH was most unimpressed to find me weighing horse feed in our mixing bowls int he kitchen!)

If I fed at recommended rates, he'd be obese, have decked me and I'd be bankrupt, I think the people at Winergy are completely barking mad when it comes to their recommended rates, and whilst the feed works for me, their feed helpline I would not touch with a barge pole because of the rates they quote for their feeds on the sack!

It is down to what suits your horse - the skill of feeding by eye according to the feel your horse gives you seems to have been lost somewhere along the line since I was a child, and I don't think these recommended rates help this at all - from any feed company, not just Winergy.
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If you are feeding it just as a token feed like you are, with the main source of his calories coming from grass and hay, then I agree the price is not a big concern! (Although I would argue that at 375g a day, then it is not going to make much impact on the protein levels or digestible energy of his overall diet and it is really being fed as like a chaff or short chop fibre food (if you prefer
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), rather than a complete feed!)

I agree with you about feeding by eye and I do feel ALL the feed manufacturers actually confuse horse-owners with a lot of the pseudo-scientific waffle they use. For the normal horse, feeding should start with grass and ad lib good quality hay/haylage and bucket feeds should only then be added if the horse lacks energy or condition.

Unfortunately, many owners now believe that if they don't give their horse significant amounts of bucket feed they are being a bad owner.
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That's interesting, when I spoke to Winergy they said the guidelines on the bag were rough and they should be adapted to suit the individual horse. When I checked with them, they said my 16hh horse would be fine on a lower ration. I found them quite honest. They also didn't blind me with science like a lot of others did.

I did look into another feed manufacturer, I'm not going to mention the name but they are more fibre, naturally naturally (NOT Dengie!) and when i asked some more infepth questions (My horse has, prior to being on Winergy, proven very difficult to feed), they didn't seem to be confident at all in their answers, and were very vague, therefore giving me very little faith in the product however good they may actually be. It didn't want to make me go try it!

TGM, Looking through your threads purely out of interest, do you do something to do with feed as a job?
 
I see where you are coming from - but without it he does not have enough energy and tires towards the end of the XC, with it this does not happen - pony nuts were not enough, this is. So it must be providing him with something useful? It also allows me to raise and lower quantities without having to gradually introduce new feed types to his diet, which i find helpfuol as he may do a few events in a row and go up to a scoop a day, or not do anything much for a couple of weeks and go down to a token amount for the ulcers. I am far too tight to feed for the sake of feeding!
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TGM, Looking through your threads purely out of interest, do you do something to do with feed as a job?

[/ QUOTE ] No I don't.
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(PS: I think I can guess which company you are referring to!
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)
 
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TGM, Looking through your threads purely out of interest, do you do something to do with feed as a job?

[/ QUOTE ] No I don't.
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(PS: I think I can guess which company you are referring to!
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)

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Actually genuinley none, i was thinking along the lines of freelancing!
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Crossed wires - I meant the company who sell fibre feeds! (Would they be the ones without any molasses
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)

And no, I'm not freelance either, I have just been passionately interested in nutrition (both equine and human) for the last 25 years, and have always wanted to know exactly what I am feeding to my horses and why.

Jobwise, at present I do the administration for my husband's farriery business and do some freelance website design (but not for any feed-related businesses).
 
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Crossed wires - I meant the company who sell fibre feeds! (Would they be the ones without any molasses
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)


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Haha ohhhhh right now I get it
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I'm the same, I have a mare who is incredibley complex (but amazing!) and even feeding her has been a minefield, and since owning her I've become really interested in feeding too, I suppose cos I had to do so much damn research
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heh.
 
I took part in the feed trials, no connection with any feed manufacturer, but I genuinely am still impressed with winergy.

My gelding who came from russia as a 3yo came with old worm damage and is also a delicate flower when it comes to cold.

He looks the best he ever has (now 11 years on - he's 14) on winergy, he hunts on it, bags of energy but no bad behaviour and for a horse that can 'go off' any feed at times, months on he's still digging in with gusto.

One negative effect I've noticed with him is he now seems to have accelerated hoof growth. He's always had one slightly upright foot and one (comparitively) dropped heel. This has always been managed by a good farrier. Since starting the winergy his feet seem to grow faster, and slight angles that never before surfaced are now more apparent, so he's being shod more often.

It's just gone up to £12.20 a bag locally, and much as I love it, another raise in the price will have me regretfully changing to something else.
 
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