Wintec: CAIR or flock - opinions please

Well I've got a Bates, which I think is the leather version of Wintec. I was totally against Cair - I'd heard it was bad for horse's backs etc etc and I begrudgingly bought one with Cair for my TB who I had had a nightmare with trying to find saddles to fit. I have to say, she loves it!
 
I would say go for flock after my experience with Cair I would not go down that route again. I hope I have now got my youngsters back sorted after the Wintec Wide with Cair seemed to have caused him a serious amount of pain. Very annoyed with myself as thought I was doing the right thing getting a wide saddle and I thought (and was told) that Cair was fab. Nope. I think the combination of the Cair along with the gullet not being wide enough for my horse's spine, resulted in this pinching his back and it got progressively worse to the point he exploded. Prior to this he threw me off twice in napping/broncing episodes but I now think these were directly related to him being in discomfort.

Stick with what you know I reckon! :)
 
I have had no problem with the Cair in two Bates and a Wintec but much prefer my flocked Wintec as I know that my saddler did a fair amount of work to suit it to my big girl.
 
ladyt25 said:
I would say go for flock after my experience with Cair I would not go down that route again. I hope I have now got my youngsters back sorted after the Wintec Wide with Cair seemed to have caused him a serious amount of pain. Very annoyed with myself as thought I was doing the right thing getting a wide saddle and I thought (and was told) that Cair was fab. Nope. I think the combination of the Cair along with the gullet not being wide enough for my horse's spine, resulted in this pinching his back and it got progressively worse to the point he exploded. Prior to this he threw me off twice in napping/broncing episodes but I now think these were directly related to him being in discomfort.

Did you not have a saddle fitter fit it on him?

OP what ever you decide after reading other peoples opinions and making a choice for your self - get a saddle fitter out to check. Just because its adjustable doesnt mean it will fit every horse.

Sorry for the intrude if this is what you were doing anyway.....
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MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
OK. So am looking for people's opinions/experiences re. Wintec saddles, i.e. CAIR -v- flock please.

For those with CAIR: any problems? can you adjust/"fix" if yourself or do you have to get someone to do it for you? Also opinions on the durability (or otherwise) of the CAIR system.

Thanks!
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I have the Cair system

We fit it ourselves, its been good so far no problems at all.
 
Apart from my or my horsey friends experiences with Cair, I'm always left wondering if flock has been used and prooved successful for hundreds of years........?
 
Have used both - flock dressage, no problems for many years. GP Wide with Cair, horse was sore, saddler (Nathaniel Underwood) explained and showed me the difference and why on earth I hadn't seen it for myself I don't know, the Cair was so hard! So, flock it is for me!
 
Spot_the_Risk said:
Have used both - flock dressage, no problems for many years. GP Wide with Cair, horse was sore, saddler (Nathaniel Underwood) explained and showed me the difference and why on earth I hadn't seen it for myself I don't know, the Cair was so hard! So, flock it is for me!
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That is precisely what my instructor (knows a fair bit about saddles/saddle fitting) said. I started mine off in my other horse's Kent and Masters cob saddle but knew it wasn't quite wide enough as youngster is much broader and, as the physio said, has an "off the scale wide back/spine". I needed a saddle for him (one reason being so both horses could go out together anyway). I chose the Wintec Wide as felt it would be able to be adjusted to fit him better. Also, I didn't want to fork our £££s on a saddle until he'd stopped growing. It sat better on him than the Thorowgood and the saddler reckoned Cair was better so for the extra £20 I opted for the Cair. It was only once my horse was being ridden in this saddle he started showing issues. We had had no similar issues in the K&M prior to this.
 
I'd avoid the wintecs altogether, I know of 4 horses who have had big white patches appear behind their withers, a few others who had various soreness/rubbing issues and 1 who looked terrified when he was mounted in a wintec and was calm as soon as the saddle was changed! I know some use them with no problems but my experiences with them have all been bad!
 
I know that some people have had problems with cair, in some cases they have been pumped too hard, however I've owned four wintec/ bates, a 2000, a 500, a stock saddle and a momentum, and none of theses have had that problem, all my horses that I have used them on have been very comfortable in them. I personally would use cair over flocking
 
Spot_the_Risk said:
Have used both - flock dressage, no problems for many years. GP Wide with Cair, horse was sore, saddler (Nathaniel Underwood) explained and showed me the difference and why on earth I hadn't seen it for myself I don't know, the Cair was so hard! So, flock it is for me!
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Ahhhh........ didn't know Nathaniel "did" synthetic saddles. That opens up another possibility......... might give him a ring then :)
 
I had this same problem a week ago, i was reassured after the cair pads were shown to me - they looked nothing like the scary lumpy poor constructed ones i had seen pictures of so i can only assume that they have improved over the years

I was told that Wintecs dont suit all horses due to the tree shape

Also had the synthetic v leather debate

The saddler duly came out witha van full of saddles including three adjustable makes

Only one single saddle fitted and the pony was happy in it so all the cash counting and debates were for nothing! The pony and saddler chose for me and my personal preference didnt come in to it
 
WelshD said:
I was told that Wintecs dont suit all horses due to the tree shape

Also had the synthetic v leather debate

The saddler duly came out witha van full of saddles including three adjustable makes

Only one single saddle fitted and the pony was happy in it so all the cash counting and debates were for nothing! The pony and saddler chose for me and my personal preference didnt come in to it
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Yes......and its usually one's luck that the "only thing that fits" is invariably the most expensive innit :)

I've just tried a Thorowgood T4 cob; managed to "borrow" it for the weekend. It was a lovely saddle (secondhand) in fantastic condition, but just didn't fit either the horse or myself; frankly was the most uncomfortable thing I've ever sat on :(

Which saddler did you have by the way? Dunno where you're situated.
 
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Astonishingly it was the cheapest one - a Thorowgood. I had the budget (thanks to my generous brother) for a Kent and Masters too but it just didnt fit!

Im in Northamptonshire, the fitter was Craig Millard through Tower Farm Saddlers. I was very pleased with the service from them
 
I have used both Cair and flock - have 8 wintec saddles (synthetic) and two bates saddles (leather) with the adjustable gullet. 7 different horses.

I have the saddle fitted to the horse when I buy the saddle by a saddler, and if the horse changes much.

In 10 years I can say I have never had an issue with the horse having a sore back from the wintec saddles. They are light, easy to clean, last well. I have had no patches or white marks or even any soreness or sensitive spots.

I have to say i am very happy with the saddles.
 
Jo1987 said:
I'd avoid the wintecs altogether, I know of 4 horses who have had big white patches appear behind their withers, a few others who had various soreness/rubbing issues and 1 who looked terrified when he was mounted in a wintec and was calm as soon as the saddle was changed! I know some use them with no problems but my experiences with them have all been bad!
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Strange I have one and its done none of the above and 4 liveries and again no rubs pressure points -white hair.

Obviously just did not suit these horses.
 
Jo1987 said:
I'd avoid the wintecs altogether, I know of 4 horses who have had big white patches appear behind their withers, a few others who had various soreness/rubbing issues and 1 who looked terrified when he was mounted in a wintec and was calm as soon as the saddle was changed! I know some use them with no problems but my experiences with them have all been bad!
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Leviathan said:
Strange I have one and its done none of the above and 4 liveries and again no rubs pressure points -white hair.

Obviously just did not suit these horses.
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I'd suspect that the issue is that all too many people think "Oooh changeable gullet, can be made to fit everything, I'll do it myself" and don't ACTUALLY know what they are doing, or whether, as Leviathan says, the saddle actually suits the horse. With my big mare the saddler was a bit surprised when I rocked up with the Wintec Isabell and dubious that it would suit but he was eventually surprised by just how good it is on her once he'd done some magic with the flocking.
 
My big lad's current saddle (Bates Caprilli CC) uses Cair, whereas all of our other horses' saddles are traditional flocking.
We've not had any issues with it. I've not tried to adjust it myself and I personally wouldn't - that's what my saddler is here to do. It hasn't needed adjusted in the 18 months I've had it so can't comment on that.

New saddle is traditional flocking.

ETA: I didn't pick either because they were Cair as opposed to flocking, or the other way round. I went with what fitted.
 
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*hic* said:
I'd suspect that the issue is that all too many people think "Oooh changeable gullet, can be made to fit everything.
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I must admit this is what I was thinking until I got some help from the shop. My brother who is non horsey actually picked up a Kent and Masters and took it to the till also thinking it was that easy. In the end I booked the saddler and my brother bought a gift voucher so I could buy after the fitting

When the saddler arrived the Wintec was placed on the pony for all of five seconds and it was obvious to all that it was not ok, the Kent and Masters which I loved was not a good fit either, the Thorowgood fitted like a glove straight away - all three are adjustable saddles
 
I've had a CAIR for 16 months for my youngster without any issues. Saddler checks it regularly and gullet has been changed once. They are so light compared to traditional saddles and easy to clean.

I seem to collect saddles as the one's I've got never seem to fit new horses but I love them so much I can't bring myself to sell them!
 
Everyone has to speak as they find.

I had Wintec CC Cairs and they were brilliant. Loved them. Nice and lightweight, and respectable enough for local showing and hunting - no tack cleaning either ;) :D
. Both 15" on Arab and NF
They were used daily, and for hunting, never had a problem at all. No rubs, no sores, nothing.

So, on my experiences, I would recommend them.
 
At the yard where I work with 45 horses in work. We have a lot of wintecs, probably over 20. The cair panels are not soft, like flair. Some horses they fit beautifully, others they simply do not fit at all. I also find that the 'old' style wintec fits horses better too, and I prefer it to ride in.
 
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