wintec isabelle dressage saddle??

cob&onion

cob&onion

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After seeing the isabelle dressage saddle today i have to say i really quite liked the look of it.
Am after a dressage saddle for my 3yr old cob, it had the adjustable gullet system - now i have a few questions

1) Are they likely to be a suitable fit for a no withered flat back cob? (shes normally a wide fitting)
2) How comfortable are they for rider? currenty have a GP synthetic and its truely awful and very uncomfortable
3) How practical is the suede like finish on them?? would be using it for hacking and schooling (but not jumping) what happens when it rains?? do you just protect it with a cover? how easy are they to maintain and do they fade??

They are quite pricey too, so are they really worth it?
Also which is better? flock or cair?
Thanks
 
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Hello
Personally, I don't like them but some people love them - a bit like Marmite I suppose.
For me, they lock the rider into position and it becomes impossible to use wieght aids effectively, or to block any resistances or bad behaviour. It makes me feel like a prisoner. Have tried both the synthetic and leather versions.
Hope this helps.
 
Iv had an isabell for 2 years, the colour does not fade, they are fine in wet weather and are really hard wearing, for the money that they are we have gone for an ideal H&C lovley saddle bought 2nd hand hardly used for 400 pounds off horsequest
 
My flatbacked, no wither, extremely sensitive AA mare was great in a Wintec Isabelle, get it properly fitted to make sure for your horse though.

I find them easy to look after, in fact it's my saddle of choice if going to the beach as it's so easy to clean.
 
Equestrianfriends said:
i would be a bit careful with putting a dressage saddle on a 3yr old personally i wouldnt
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shes closer to 4 now than 3 - should have said :)
Please can you tell me your reasons for not using a dressage saddle on a youngster as personally i cannot think of any apart from a dressage saddle encouraging a long leg position for the rider and a deeper seat?? i can only think of negative reasons for say backing a baby in a dressage saddle but none for riding away in one after the youngster has been riding away sensibly for a good few weeks?
 
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cob&onion said:
After seeing the isabelle dressage saddle today i have to say i really quite liked the look of it.
Am after a dressage saddle for my 3yr old cob, it had the adjustable gullet system - now i have a few questions

1) Are they likely to be a suitable fit for a no withered flat back cob? (shes normally a wide fitting) I doubt it unless the new version has a wider tree as most wintes suit TB types best. It was not suitable for my wide backed warmblood.
2) How comfortable are they for rider? currenty have a GP synthetic and its truely awful and very uncomfortableThey are comfortable but you need a half inch bigger seat than you would normally have as they are quite constricting.
3) How practical is the suede like finish on them?? would be using it for hacking and schooling (but not jumping) what happens when it rains?? do you just protect it with a cover? how easy are they to maintain and do they fade?? It is very practical.

They are quite pricey too, so are they really worth it?
Also which is better? flock or cair? Flock, without a doubt as the cair panels are often as hard as concrete. Others are too soft!
Thanks
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Hope this helps.
 
I would suggest trying a thorowgood dressage saddle before parting with any cash (just too throw a spanner in the wworks!)

Sooo lightweight!

V x
 
I'd get a saddler out if I were you :)

I also agree that Thorowgoods are much nicer, and they do proper cob versions to fit... well, cobs!

Having said that, my Welsh Cob ended up with a Wintec Pro Dressage and a Wintec 2000 GP after bucking me off in everything else I tried with numerous different saddlers. She was a million times better in those, and she still has the 2000 GP with her current owners - I first put it on her about ten years ago!

It really does depend on the horse, and a qualified (and decent) saddler will be able to give you a good opinion on the fit.

Oh, and I really, REALLY wouldn't recommend Cair. Most of them are totally over-filled and they are not adjustable. Air doesn't compress, so they are like cold concrete blocks. Not Wintec's brightest idea ;)
 
sbloom said:
I am.
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Would you mind answering a few questions please? :)

What is your view on the fit of this type of saddle on a cob (normally a wide fitting) not overly rounded but enough for a saddle to slip? (bit like a welsh D build)
Also have been told to go for something straight cut but i have long legs - i like some sort of support at the front otherwise my knees come over the front of the saddle.
Mare is 14.2/3

What would be your recommendation as a fitter?

Thanks :)
 
I only really know the dressage models that I fit - Native Pony and Phoenix saddles (and with a name like that obviously we fit a lot of Welsh D shapes) - so can't help much on the Isabell, though I do know its a "Marmite" saddle for riders. I don't like the Wintec head plates as per that blog, so would recommend Thorowgood if your budget is synthetic, though again I don't fit them. But even those do not have an open head (wide pommel to fit the horse better) which most wide cobs need. I'd look for something on a wider headed tree - ours have them, Duett is another brand, and then some larger companies will make dressage saddles on open headed or "hoop" trees.

A narrow headed tree can mean the saddle will perch - the wider the horse the more close contact you need to go, within reason. Also the panels on generalist saddles like Wintecs, even the Wide, will not usually be flat enough to be that kind of close contact fit. Though I have to say a "wide" fit isn't wide on my scale :D.

For long legs you should usually look for a less forward cut flap with a smaller or higher (or both) block to allow more room for the knee. A slightly larger seat may help a little, but you may be limited I guess on a 14.2. A flatter seat will also likely help.
 
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sbloom said:
This might interest you, from a fellow saddle fitter in the US who I respect hugely:

http://saddlefitter.blogspot.com/2011/09/changeable-gullets-details.html
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Wow! I find that very interesting. I had always wondered about the kink in the gullet plates but having nothing else to compare them to, I thought nothing much of it. Thank you. That is food for thought as I changed the gullet a couple of months ago in my TB's saddle as it was too low, from a wide to a medium wide. (Checked by saddler). Gradually we have started to have very severe ridden problems to the point where he is currently unridable. Vet is considering kissing spine so having xrays this week.
 
sbloom said:
I only really know the dressage models that I fit - Native Pony and Phoenix saddles (and with a name like that obviously we fit a lot of Welsh D shapes) - so can't help much on the Isabell, though I do know its a "Marmite" saddle for riders. I don't like the Wintec head plates as per that blog, so would recommend Thorowgood if your budget is synthetic, though again I don't fit them. But even those do not have an open head (wide pommel to fit the horse better) which most wide cobs need. I'd look for something on a wider headed tree - ours have them, Duett is another brand, and then some larger companies will make dressage saddles on open headed or "hoop" trees.

A narrow headed tree can mean the saddle will perch - the wider the horse the more close contact you need to go, within reason. Also the panels on generalist saddles like Wintecs, even the Wide, will not usually be flat enough to be that kind of close contact fit. Though I have to say a "wide" fit isn't wide on my scale :D.

For long legs you should usually look for a less forward cut flap with a smaller or higher (or both) block to allow more room for the knee. A slightly larger seat may help a little, but you may be limited I guess on a 14.2. A flatter seat will also likely help.
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Thanks for that :) some good points to look out for.
Would love a native cob saddle but unfortunitly there out of my budget range and i have yet to see a second hand one :(

And LOL about the typo :D
 
SBLoom this interests me a lot too as just lately I am having constant problems with my isabel and PRE gelding. To be honest, I have used a fitter who is happy with the fit of the saddle herself, but I'm just not convinced. Thing is you do feel a bit cocky arguing against the expert, but my horse lately has displayed behaviour which suggests discomfort.

So, I was considering trying to fit a saddle with the help of my RI as I'm just not 100% about the fitter - although they're highly recommmended.
 
I can comment on fitting for a cob, but I wanted a saddle that would give me a better leg position which my Wintec 2000 really wasn't giving me so I bought a secondhand Isabell Wintec of Ebay at a bargain price £250 for my 4yr warmblood as whoever advertised it didn't spell Isabell properly so there were no other bids.
It was about 2 1/2 yrs old and the suede was a bit shiny but after getting the suede brush out and gave it a good clean it looks like new. I would recommend webbers for stirrup leathers as the recessed buckles in you use normal leathers jab in your leg. The webbers remove that bulk.
The saddler fitted it as it had additional padding in the rear which he removed and rebalanced. He was impressed at the price and condition and said I had a bargain!

Wintec's are pretty tolerant and I do abuse mine but I clean them regularly and when they're clean they look like new.

I prefer riding in the Isabell to the 2000 and my riding has improve 100% :D
 
OK, I haven't read all the threads, but I have a flat backed cob and an Isabella Werth, so here are my thoughts!!!

1. If you buy an Isabella for a cob you probably need the new one, not the old one. The new ones have a wider gullet and larger panels, so are probably infinitely more superior for a typical cob.

2. I absolutely love riding in mine. The new ones have lots of memory foam on the top, so you really 'sink' into them. It is important to get the knee blocks fitted properly though and to use them properly to get the best position.

3. My cob is liable to trip if not going forward. I tried many saddles and wasn't worried about cost. This one seemed to fit horse best and made me feel most secure. Have just had the saddle fitter out today after 6 months, still a superb fit (have had to widen gullets as he has put on muscle).

4. I don't expect it to last for ever. I think it will probably do 5 or 6 years and then I will be looking at a new saddle. But then it is half the price of the other saddles I was looking at so I accepted that.

5. I also have a GP saddle, but unless I am jumping, somehow this is the one that always comes out!!

Hope this helps.
 
Having seen the results of some RIs interfering in saddle fit issues I'd warn against it! Of course the odd RI might really know their stuff, but saddle fitting is an art and needs experience, particularly on the tricky fits.

Perhaps have a more in depth chat with your current fitter and perhaps consider having more checks to eliminate other potential physical or mental issues. If you really have had everything checked out, and you still can't agree with your fitter then maybe get a second opinion.
 
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