Winter-maintaining horse's weight.

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Elvis

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I'm not sure what to do about trying to maintain Elvis' weight this winter. The YM mentioned today how he's dropped a little weight- which he has, but he's gone from a bit tubby to pretty much perfect. However I know he'll keep dropping weight (as he did last winter) and bearing in mind it's only November I don't want him turning into a hat rack.

The YM mentioned stopping soaking his hay, however it's soaked because I worry about toxins in hay that can damage the liver and Elvis has a dodgy liver.
But as she pointed out he's a fresh fit horse, and we've just about got him to a manageable level, so don't want to change/increase his hard feed. He's only on 2 very small feeds a day with pony nuts and no molasses hi fi. He's turned out 8-4.30 every day in a field that still has grass, but I doubt it's got much nutrition now. Hay in the field isn't an option- I've already asked, they said him and his field mate will be put into the field on rest when there is no more grass. Then at night he has 3 medium/large haynets of soaked hay.

So what can I do? He's worked 6 days a weeks with a mixture of schooling, hacking and lunging so is in medium work I'd say.
Do I ask them to slowly increase his feed and hope he remains sane? Or do I stop soaking the hay and keep an eye on liver function (regular blood tests). Is there anything else I can do to maintain his weight? The yard use calm and condition for weight gain over winter for the horses prone to dropping weight but are reluctant to put Elvis on it.
Perhaps we are being over cautious, but it's taken a while to get him to a point where he's sensible to ride and I'm not so nervous riding him now so both myself and the yard don't want to risk the progress we've made. We even decided not to clip him to try and prevent him getting too fresh.
 
I would stop soaking his hay if you want to keep him looking well, soaking it draws all the goodness out of it. Forage is better for him than hard feed. Feeding a bit of Speedi Beet is a good source of fibre to complement what your already feeding if you want him to have something else. Keep on with the regular blood checks and I would say thats as much as you can do really without changing too much.

As for clipping, if he gets too sweaty atall then you could just do very small bib clip, or what I have done in the past is just take the neck and shoulders off, including the girth area
 
I use calm and condition on my poor doer, along with linseed he is now putting on weight, with ad lib hay, he drops weight easily and is on two large meals per day with ad lib hay, he has stopped looking ribby, although his hind end still looks poor
 
We really rate ERS pellets, linseed and alpha beet as good fattening feeds, but what really keeps the weight on is as much good quality hay as they can possibly eat and being kept warm.
 
I would add some micronised linseed and speedibeet.
The amount of food you are giving is not a lot so I am not suprised he's loosing wieght.
Have you tried haylage ?
I certainly think that soaking the hay would be a good thing to stop if you can.
 
Mine gets haylage, ERS pellets, alfa-a oil, alfa-beet and a balancer. I just increase the pellets and balancer as the grass loses goodness... but he's still eating grass now rather than the haylage so there must be something still in it!
 
What others have said, basically stop soaking the hay, or try haylage. Usually it's a lot better for poor doers.

You could do with increasing hard feed if you say your not giving him a lot. Try non heating feeds, like calm and condition. Try micronised linseed. Increase the quantity if he's on very small amount of feed. My friends crazy pony didn't heat up with calm and condition, although he wasn't very keen on the fact it's a paste like consistency, but ate it well mixed.
 
I would add micronised linseed to his feed. This is safe, non heating so shouldn't be detrimental to his ridden work while maintaining/adding weight.

Edited as oil isn't good for liver problems, sorry.
 
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It is difficult to advise without knowing more about his liver problem. Has the vet advised soaking his hay? If so, I would want to chat with him/her before changing that aspect, although I suspect that not soaking the hay will improve things a lot, as you are removing a lot of calories and nutrients during the soaking process. Have you been advised again feeding him high protein/high oil due to his liver? The things commonly suggested for putting condition on a normal horse are often contraindicated when a horse have a liver problem, so would be a good idea to get specialist advice from someone who knows exactly what your horse's issue involves.
 
Is there a reason you can't feed hay in the field? Even if there is grass, it has very poor nutritional value at this time of year. On my yard, the two that are out on 5 acres of good looking grass have just as much hay as those that are off the grass. They are a TB and a WB yearling and they are just maintaining their weight nicely. They eat up every scrap of hay and so none is ever wasted.
 
Thank you everyone. His liver problem was really out of the blue and the vets could find no cause. A biopsy just showed that the cells were degenerating instead of regenerating. Luckily we caught it early and only a very small amount of damage had been done. And a course of steroids kicked his liver back into gear, everything was back to normal by May/June this year. However because they found no cause I've remained over cautious since.

The vets, and many others, have made a link with the hay cut last year (after the awful wet summer) and the amount of liver problems found this year in horses. They suspect a high level of toxins is present in some of the hay cut last year. So on the vets advise I soaked the hay, he's now on this years hay and bloods have remained normal but it's still at the back of my mind.

The yard do also have haylage I could try, but it seems to be sugars that make Elvis a bit fresher than is desirable and the haylage is very rich at my yard. I think, with the vets guidance, I'll stop soaking the hay. And might speak about increasing the hard feed slowly and adding a small amount of the calm and condition. I'd rather stay away from oils as I know the liver has to work hard to break down oils and fats.

Edited to add a response to Wagtail: I asked about giving hay in the field, but the yards policy is to only hay the fields with horses in 24/7, and then rotate the rest so they are always on land with grass. It's a shame as that's what I would have done, but I've got to respect their policies, they are very good about everything else and nothing has ever come out of winter looking bad.

Thank you everyone, he's not an overly poor doer, so I'm hoping small changes will make a difference.
 
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Speedibeet and micronised linseed might be worth exploring? I added Baileys No.4 conditioning cubes to my boys feed and two weeks later you could see a noticable difference so i swear by them now and they dont make him fizz up thankfully :)
 
If you're worried about toxins it may be worth speaking to your vet about adding a mycotoxin binder into his feed - alltech do one and I noticed that progressive earth on eBay also do one now. It's around £25 for a months supply IIRC.

This would then mean he could get more value from his forage and the toxin angle is covered.

Linseed is also fab for conditioning :)
 
Yes, I am sure there will be a veterinary nutrition specialist somewhere , maybe at the Animal Health Trust who can advise on exactly the things to avoid and things which are safe.
I used to soak haylage to remove sugars, but only did it for 30 minutes, obviously there must be some trade off, if you soak for 12 hours there is going to be a lot less nutrition.
I know Saracen do some specialist feeds, but expensive, and it seems your problem is with the forage. It is difficult as you don't really know exactly what you are feeding, and even if you did, you don't know exactly what is the "right" diet.
My yearling had what we suspected might be a liver problem [stiff neck!] but is resolved itself and as there was no ragwort we did not worry, but she has been fed the same forage as my other two, and they were fine.
 
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Thank you leg_end I'll definitely look at a mycotoxin binder, seems like a way to keep me happy and stop soaking the hay.

MrsD123: I will see if there is someone I can contact, as it's a minefield knowing what's safe, what to avoid etc when there are liver issues to consider. His hay isn't soaked for too long at the moment but it might be worth soaking it for less time as a first step.
 
Leg_end said:
If you're worried about toxins it may be worth speaking to your vet about adding a mycotoxin binder into his feed - alltech do one and I noticed that progressive earth on eBay also do one now. It's around £25 for a months supply IIRC.

This would then mean he could get more value from his forage and the toxin angle is covered.

Linseed is also fab for conditioning :)
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This, I use Alltech and it's fab, I have a 20 year old TB x Welsh who dropped off loads last winter, she has had lami in the past so I can't add too much other than linseed to her feed (fast fibre). She is now on less feed than this time last year & looks way better :)

I also have just got a haygain steamer to kill off the spores in the hay, they are pricey but there is a little one horse one that you could look at or try making one yourself tho not sure it would get hot enough?!
 
Another vote for the Lifeforce and linseed combination... good rugging & plenty of access to good quality forage (i would also stop soaking the hay)
 
Lolo said:
We really rate ERS pellets, linseed and alpha beet as good fattening feeds, but what really keeps the weight on is as much good quality hay as they can possibly eat and being kept warm.
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Agree with the ERS Pellets, they were a god send last year for our tb with ulcers......this year he is on three to four slices of hay a night (for 16:2 tb I know it's not enough but he won't eat anymore, just trample it in) a bucket if alpha a molasses free with a halleys hay bloc in, one stubs scoop of Alfa a molasses free with quarter Stubbs scoop of wet alpha beat along with a new supplement, Lifeforce from alltech, and a bucket of hay if he will eat it for breakfast and he is looking good.

If he needs it we will put him on the ERS Pellets as a extra.

He is rugged in a heavy with a small quilt underneath if needed, when ridden if not doing fast/schooling work he has a fleece exercise sheet on and then a waterproof waffle one on top to keep him warm enough.

Touch wood he has kept his summer weight.
 
I feed all mine fast fibre....its a very versatile feed, because its suitable for pretty much everything!! My *very* good doer who is healthy as you like has a tiny bit as does my cushingoid pony, and my much slighter, younger gelding has much more (he also has suffered with liver issues).....
 
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