FRESHMAN
Well-Known Member
Thanks Brighthair. & it is nothing to do wih management. I am very close to your neck of the woods & it is damn near impossible to give winter grazing.
winter turnout in livery
- Thread starter horsesatemymoney
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Mossi
Well-Known Member
Freshman do you realise how that sounds? its now more convenient for you to have your horses out because they are old and past their usefullness to you and are costing you money and no longer worth moulding into a stable, rather than turning them out for their benefit. If they have been stabled for the majority of their days they are probably confused by being out, maybe it would have been better to turn them out more in their younger days afterall and it would make it easier, more convenient and less costly for you now i.e they would probably stay out longer willingly. Who knows, who am I to say, lol these posts are becoming unreal - maybe they are!
FRESHMAN
Well-Known Member
Yes the post's are becoming unreal. What a load of complete bollox you speak. Yes it would have made it easier & less expensive for the retired horses to live out. FACT. But they do not want too?
So stop trying to twist my words.
I said & I quote I am peed off that the buggers jump out & return to the stables? If I was the person you suggest I woud have had them PTS rather than give them a decent retirement in a manner that they choose. My horses owe me bugger all. Cost does not even come into. ( yes I am very fortunate)
My horses have won more in prize money than they cost to buy. But the truth is, that is exactly what bugs people like you isn't it?
The lot of them have been offered turn out all day long if that is what they choose. But they vote with there feet. Several horses I have owned since they were 6/7 so by 16/17/18 you would think they had enough time to change their approach to grazing. Even in Summer they DECIDE it is. To hot, To cold, To wet To many flies. I want to Come In. & that is exactly what they do? Yes you are 100% correct? Who the hell are you To say what is right for others? Get a life FGS
So stop trying to twist my words.
I said & I quote I am peed off that the buggers jump out & return to the stables? If I was the person you suggest I woud have had them PTS rather than give them a decent retirement in a manner that they choose. My horses owe me bugger all. Cost does not even come into. ( yes I am very fortunate)
My horses have won more in prize money than they cost to buy. But the truth is, that is exactly what bugs people like you isn't it?
The lot of them have been offered turn out all day long if that is what they choose. But they vote with there feet. Several horses I have owned since they were 6/7 so by 16/17/18 you would think they had enough time to change their approach to grazing. Even in Summer they DECIDE it is. To hot, To cold, To wet To many flies. I want to Come In. & that is exactly what they do? Yes you are 100% correct? Who the hell are you To say what is right for others? Get a life FGS
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
Freshman I have to say you are the only one who comes across as the one who thinks everyone should go by your standards here.
You aren't doing yourself any favours in the abusive manner in which you are posting.
You aren't doing yourself any favours in the abusive manner in which you are posting.
Jools1234
Well-Known Member
mainly the way that you come across in your posts is that you know best but you dont like it when others have that attitude-in an earler post i put i understand it is not always possible regarding full time turn out, but i suppose the way in which your posts come across has put my back up
Patterdale
Well-Known Member
Do your dogs prefer not to be walked?
Patterdale
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but it seems a bit far fetched that someone could have a whole yard of horses who all just happen to actively dislike being given their liberty.
It's nothing to do with working them properly either, up until last year I had a horse competing CCI* who lived out and was still perfectly hard and fit.
It's nothing to do with working them properly either, up until last year I had a horse competing CCI* who lived out and was still perfectly hard and fit.
em_123
Well-Known Member
I am pleased I have the opportunity to rent my own small yard.
I have one side of the field sectioned off for the winter which they live in full time, the only place that gets churned up is by the gateway and along the fence where they get fed, the rest of the field is fine.
Their hay is spread across the field so they are not in one place for a long time.
And no I have never had a problem with mud fever either.
As long as they are fed, watered and rugged accordingly if they need it then I am yet to find a horse who hasn't adjusted to living out.
In fact the main reason why my lot lvie out now 24/7 is because my big horse hated being in at night and would go booloo to get out in the morning but I couldn't leave him out on his own at night so the others had to be out too.
Sure for the first week or so they stood about but only because they were used to coming in and having their tea etc in the stable, once they figured they got their teas and their hay out in the field they couldn't give 2 hoots about coming in now.
I now have much calmer more relaxed horses as a result as well, so yes they are happier out now!
Horses are conditioned to live in the way we want them to, it doesn't a lot of the time have a great deal to do with what or where they would prefer to be.
Majority of the time as long as they have plenty of food they couldn't care less.
I know it is better for their health to be out and moving about, it isn't natural for them to be cooped up for hours on end, nobody can deny that fact. I have my big horse who has the starting of arthritis in his hocks i believe. I know that since having him out he is a lot more supple than when he arrived and was in at night.
So they have been conditioned by me to live out, but in the long term it is very obvious that for their health and mental states it has been very beneficial.
I couldn't now go onto a yard where there is no winter or little turnout.
I have one side of the field sectioned off for the winter which they live in full time, the only place that gets churned up is by the gateway and along the fence where they get fed, the rest of the field is fine.
Their hay is spread across the field so they are not in one place for a long time.
And no I have never had a problem with mud fever either.
As long as they are fed, watered and rugged accordingly if they need it then I am yet to find a horse who hasn't adjusted to living out.
In fact the main reason why my lot lvie out now 24/7 is because my big horse hated being in at night and would go booloo to get out in the morning but I couldn't leave him out on his own at night so the others had to be out too.
Sure for the first week or so they stood about but only because they were used to coming in and having their tea etc in the stable, once they figured they got their teas and their hay out in the field they couldn't give 2 hoots about coming in now.
I now have much calmer more relaxed horses as a result as well, so yes they are happier out now!
Horses are conditioned to live in the way we want them to, it doesn't a lot of the time have a great deal to do with what or where they would prefer to be.
Majority of the time as long as they have plenty of food they couldn't care less.
I know it is better for their health to be out and moving about, it isn't natural for them to be cooped up for hours on end, nobody can deny that fact. I have my big horse who has the starting of arthritis in his hocks i believe. I know that since having him out he is a lot more supple than when he arrived and was in at night.
So they have been conditioned by me to live out, but in the long term it is very obvious that for their health and mental states it has been very beneficial.
I couldn't now go onto a yard where there is no winter or little turnout.
Mossi
Well-Known Member
This is just what I was thinking, and it does suggest that the horses have somehow been trained to live in rather then chosen to. I'm really not judging whether its right or wrong, but generally in my experience/observation on different livery yards, I have found that given the CHOICE, the majority of the horses and their humans prefer the freedom to roam, stretch their legs, socialise and graze if possible, to standing inside a small walled area for hours on end. As for the work and fitness, my horse developed a great topline this year after living out 24/7 walking up and down hills, through bogs, over stones and grazing, playing and whatever else they do in a mixed herd and personally this is my preferred method of horse keeping, but I am not a commercial horse keeper.
Unfortunately with the new restricted winter turnout situation about to be imposed upon us, my horse will be boxed up for 40 hours then out for 8, boxed for 40, out for 8...... and my god am I dreading it, because it's not what he's used to and not what I consider good for him.
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Mossi
Well-Known Member
I think this is a great post Em, it makes sense to me and is what I would like for my horse.
Patterdale
Well-Known Member
I AM judging and I think it's wrong for any animal to be cooped up all day.
Mossi
Well-Known Member
I have to eat my words here in that I probably am judging too, because I agree with Snowflake. I think it is fairer to allow an animal freedom if you have the facilities to do so, rather than to coop it up all day.
Mossi
Well-Known Member
I have to eat my words here in that I probably am judging too, because I agree with Snowflake.
There are many hilly fields here in Lancashire and I find that the horses can escape the deep mud by going uphill. Perhaps fields should be rotated or sectioned off and mud scraped away from the gateways. If the fields are flat and become totally wet and unusable perhaps we should provide a large enough hard standing area with haylage to allow them to roam in for a few hours, not just a few minutes while you muckout, anything rather than just keeping them cooped up in a small box all day and night - frustratingly though this is what we are increasingly expected to do on the livery yards in my area.
There are many hilly fields here in Lancashire and I find that the horses can escape the deep mud by going uphill. Perhaps fields should be rotated or sectioned off and mud scraped away from the gateways. If the fields are flat and become totally wet and unusable perhaps we should provide a large enough hard standing area with haylage to allow them to roam in for a few hours, not just a few minutes while you muckout, anything rather than just keeping them cooped up in a small box all day and night - frustratingly though this is what we are increasingly expected to do on the livery yards in my area.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Those of you who are dreading the resticted turn out need to have been planning for this in the summer .
I know that at our home exposed to the north sea with clay soil is a not a suitable place for fit slim clipped horses to be outside for many hours a day when the weather is poor or downright terrible.
So I plan for it they come into the stable 365 days a year part of the day in summer (which they love no standing in the flys for my horses they spend the worse part of the day sleeping in deep beds being groomed etc generally being pampered ) the stable is therefore integral to their lives if they have to stay in a lot they don't go mad get stressy behave badly that's a training failure owning a horse like that , they happy calm to handle and know exactly where they stand .
If I say you stay in the stable they stay I can ride out leave one behind they may call as we leave but settle quickly because they are happy and confident in the stable .
This your job as the owner to plan for this .
Winter is not a terrible shock or a freak weather event it happens ever year.
I know that at our home exposed to the north sea with clay soil is a not a suitable place for fit slim clipped horses to be outside for many hours a day when the weather is poor or downright terrible.
So I plan for it they come into the stable 365 days a year part of the day in summer (which they love no standing in the flys for my horses they spend the worse part of the day sleeping in deep beds being groomed etc generally being pampered ) the stable is therefore integral to their lives if they have to stay in a lot they don't go mad get stressy behave badly that's a training failure owning a horse like that , they happy calm to handle and know exactly where they stand .
If I say you stay in the stable they stay I can ride out leave one behind they may call as we leave but settle quickly because they are happy and confident in the stable .
This your job as the owner to plan for this .
Winter is not a terrible shock or a freak weather event it happens ever year.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I generally struggle how it can be totally healthy for an animal the size of a horse to be in a 12x12 box with limited movement/ventilation/natural eating behaviours/interaction with others for every hour of the day apart from when taken out to work. Although knowing some of those kept at local DIY being taken out to work would be appreciated by them as they don't get that either. We also haven't changed them by selective breeding as we perhaps like to think.
Its pretty soggy down here on the somerset levels too, but most can manage turn out all year if stocking density is correct (unless it actually floods obviously!)
Its pretty soggy down here on the somerset levels too, but most can manage turn out all year if stocking density is correct (unless it actually floods obviously!)
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em_123
Well-Known Member
I do plan for it, they have a field set aside all year to recover and then they can trash that as much as necesary, as it turns out even in the wettest only the corner of the field gets wrecked, because the field is plenty big enough for the horses that are on it.
My horses will stay in a stable, there's only one on the yard that won't, and that's not for lack of trying, he just won't stay in and the owner would rather not put him in the position that he has to have the top door shut to keep him in or risk him damaging himself getting out.
As I said mine will stay in a stable if I say they have to, but they are much happier and healthier when they are out in the long run.
I do believe it is important a horse gets used to being in a stable from a young age, so they know it is not a place to fear, but it doesn't have to be a daily thing for them. There are plenty of horse who are out 24/7 in the summer who will happily come in at night in the winter.
My big horse had to be in on box rest when he injured his knee, I was a little apprehensive how he would take it but he coped well, again he stressed that he wasn't going out in the morning for the first week, but became conditioned to the fact that this was the way it was now.
Doesn't mean he wasn't damn pleased to get out again during the day for the first couple of weeks and then 24/7 again.
No winter doesn't come along as a surprise, but in this argument with livery yards not wanting winter turnout, a lot of it is down to them over grazing the land, I don't have an issue because I have 3 more paddocks they can use all spring, summer and autumn which means the winter field can get as messy as it needs to, it will always recover as it has sufficient recovery time.
A lot of livery yards don't have that luxury, purely their own fault as they need/want more money therefore put too many horses onto one bit of land.
AbFab
Well-Known Member
I have never been on a yard where winter turnout was at least similar to summer turnout, until now. At one yard it was 3hrs every other day in a huge field, which actually seemed alright for my then 6yr old mare. I have just moved off a yard where the turnout was limited to an hour a day in a terrible field - impossible almost!
My 2 girlies are now very happily turned out on about 15 acres every day unless it is really leathering it down. They go out around 6am and come in around 4:30pm. I have seen a very noticeable change in their behaviour and attitudes, they are both so chilled out now! The yard even has hard standing a good 10m either side of the gate too, heaven!
My 2 girlies are now very happily turned out on about 15 acres every day unless it is really leathering it down. They go out around 6am and come in around 4:30pm. I have seen a very noticeable change in their behaviour and attitudes, they are both so chilled out now! The yard even has hard standing a good 10m either side of the gate too, heaven!
Mossi
Well-Known Member
I planned for the winter by moving to a yard that had full daily winter turnout and was lead to believe that this would always be the case. Unfortunately this year, they have decided to restrict it to alternate days meaning alternating day turnout approx 8 hourly, but which means horses will be kept in for 40 hours at a time with no manege or area for loose turnout during that time and nowhere to put them when mucking out unless on of the three tie rings is free - and then they will probably pull the wall down as they have been used to living out 24/7 for most of the time. We are hoping to get this changed again to daily turnout, even if only around four hours, as I don't think the YO has thought about the consequences properly as yet of alternate day turnout. I would love a place of my own but that luxury is hard to come by, but I constantly search. I don't wish to keep my horse stabled all winter as I do not believe it is right.
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keepcalmanddriveon
Well-Known Member
Yards here generally have the horses locked up all winter with no turnout whatsoever. You get to throw them in the school whilst you muck out & thats generally considered enough. Except by me & many other owners.
Sad but true.
Sad but true.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
That's just a bad plan the yard has made ,
You can be expected to go from 24/7 to grazing during the day every other day mid winter with no planning unless you have been caught in the flooding that has been going on .
Why dont they make strawed turn out areas with high electric fences for alternate days.
One of the issues with yards is that they dont charge enough to provide enough management time to manage the place well but in the present climate prices are unlikely to rise to realistic levels.
Mossi
Well-Known Member
They are really nice people actually, farmers diversifying so its new to them, they have over 100 acres but most of it is used for cattle and haylage. Their weekly rent is also the most expensive in the area but their haylage prices are very fair. We are going to further discuss the turnout situation with them and hope for a more apropriate system.
muddygreymare
Well-Known Member
I was on a yard last winter where they were hardly allowed out at all. It said they were to have normal turnout during winter in the contract but that never happened so I moved. My mare is arthritic and can't be stuck in all the time so it just wasn't fair on her. I think at least 6 hours minimum is the least I would settle for, but I know that doesn't happen on a lot of yards. My horses are out from 7 until 4 on a huge big field and there are no issues. There are 3 horses on the yard, two of them are mine 
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I think you have a good chance of resolving this somehow .
A turn out area ought not cost a fortune to provide and they ought to have machinary that means providing strawed areas are not impossible to provide and manage .
I have personal experiance of farmers starting livery and they often think because they know how to keep cattle how difficult can itbe to manage a few horses.
Two of my OH friends have done this so I have had perplexed phone calls from them while they got their brains round it on the plus side farm livery can in many ways be the best fewer competion divas falling out as the lack of a school keeps them away, good grazing ,lots of space for hacking .
I hope you can resolve something.
A turn out area ought not cost a fortune to provide and they ought to have machinary that means providing strawed areas are not impossible to provide and manage .
I have personal experiance of farmers starting livery and they often think because they know how to keep cattle how difficult can itbe to manage a few horses.
Two of my OH friends have done this so I have had perplexed phone calls from them while they got their brains round it on the plus side farm livery can in many ways be the best fewer competion divas falling out as the lack of a school keeps them away, good grazing ,lots of space for hacking .
I hope you can resolve something.
McCauley
Well-Known Member
Mmmm guess i'm quite lucky then being at a yard with 24/7 all year round in lancashire!,..as yes there aren't many around our parts with turnout like this. Although it costs me as much to drive there every week as it does livery....that's the downside. Upside?...my horse is out and about in a mixed herd happy as larry, but with a stable to come into if/when i need it.
I personally couldn't have my horse on a yard with no turnout through winter. Moved from a yard that restricted it so much,...so voted with my feet and i moved for the good and the health of my horse...
I personally couldn't have my horse on a yard with no turnout through winter. Moved from a yard that restricted it so much,...so voted with my feet and i moved for the good and the health of my horse...
Mossi
Well-Known Member
Thank you all, these informative posts are helping me to make important decisions.