With older horses, how have you made "that" decision

galaxy

galaxy

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Not my horse thankfully, but a good friends and clients.

The short version of a long story is they owned this mare years ago, and then due to circumstances had to sell her. She was late teens at the time (but they really had no choice, and found her a home that looked very good). Sadly over the next few years she was sold 5+ times, when I happened to come across her for sale on a website. My friend phoned and it turned out the poor mare had recently been bought from a yard that weeks later ended up as a RSPCA investigation. She was in a real state (seen photos), but improving, but the new owners couldn't keep her. My friend did not hesitate in buying her back and did a brilliant job getting her back to health.

Fast forward a few years and last year the vet/physio thought she was stiffening up and recommended she go on bute. I warned that this was not a "good" sign, but her weight etc was good, and was fine on the bute. (her OH adores this mare, so just trying to prepare him). She came through the summer brilliantly and I saw her 2 weeks ago and she looked good.

Tues am I get a phone call that the mare was one 3 legs, what should they do. They knew, think it was just panic. So vet came. One of those cases where she couldn't find the problem, so foot pouliticed and the mare has been confined to the stable and yard area (not just box rest). Vet said keep her informed as to progress. I saw her today and she is better, only slightly lame in walk, lame on the turn and trot.

But that is not what shocked me. She has dropped a huge amount of weight. (she is a tb x type btw) everything has just dropped away from her spine. She is already on several meals of conditioning feed and ad lib hay as she always is in the winter. There is no reason for this drop. Not only that but her coat has gone very dull and straw like and most worryingly, usually when I take her friend the childs pony down to the school she usually goes loopy lo, pacing around and she barely noticed :( (her rug was on when vet came Tues, so didn't see and this has only realy struck them last few days)

I told them today to monitor her, that I didn't think it was time to make "that" decision yet. She is going to have equijewel added to her feed (which she had when she 1st came back, but hasn't needed since). I said IMO, long term she needed to become sounder than she is now and needed to put weight on. Certainly not loose more. Vet is going to be called for a chat obv.


For the rest of today I have been wondering just what would make you make "that" decision. Last thing they, or the horse, needs is for her to go down and not get up (which happened to someone I know last year).

Your thoughts would be appreciated.
 
I have not had to make "that decision" yet. But I have a 35 year old who I love to bits. I have spent the last 10 years deciding at what time I might want to make it. Basically it is as follows.

He will not go to a veterinary hospital under any circumstances, if he cant be treated at home then that is the end.

It doesn't matter if he is not 100% sound as long as its just a bit of stiffness and he's not in pain. I dont mind putting him on Bute, I know it can have long term health effects, but that hardly matters at his age. He currently only gets it for the farrier.

If he is eating well and still carrying enough condition to keep him warm at night I dont mind if he looses a bit of weight, especially when there is no grass.

The real decider though will be when he looses his love of life. At the moment he still drags us out to the field and back in for tea. If any of my three are going to start silly games in the field it will be him and the youngster. Basically when he stops enjoying living I will know and that will be the end.
 
its really hard and each to their own personally I made the decision for my mare when she dropped so much condition I was fighting a losing battle and after a long discussion with the vet re: her arthritis as well, we decided it probably would not be fair to put her through another winter. The last thing I ever wanted was to find her in a field and not be able to get her up!
 
for this horse i would get bloods done to rule out cushings or virus and then discuss with vet if she will have a good quality of life in the near future. if not i would make that decision. i have a 20 year old who is very happy but has cushings and is on prascend and soundness issues which she has 1 danilon a day for.. i dont really like her being on danilon daily but it keeps her comfortable and while she has a good quality of life and can go out in the field daily, she will be here BUT as soon as i feel she is not happy then i will make that decision. my previous horses were pts at 35, 24 and 22 and i have not regretted my decisions as quality of life is so important, however i still miss all of them!!!!!!!
 
We had to make this decision a couple of weeks ago.
He was finding it more and more difficult to get up, once down in the field, i think if we had persevierd (sp) the last time we would have got him up, but we thought about the long winter ahead of him, and what would have happened if he went down in the night, amongst the mud and rain or snow, and how much he would suffer if this happened! And also how many times it might happen.
So even though he had a strong heart, was well covered, and well in himself, we made the decision to have him pts there and then. :(

I would worry about your friends horse loseing so much weight in a short time, this may be down to pain, but it may also be something going on internally!
 
For an oldie it would be one or more of, standing around looking depressed, losing weight quickly and not putting it on easily although in this case I would wait until it gets colder so the horse has the warm summer months, lame at walk in the field or if lame at trot I would try something like no bute to see if the horse could be sound enough to happily mooch around, other illness where the vet says time to go.
I have seen a few suddenly lose weight and a lot of the time its liver/kidneys giving up or suspected cancer in one who could drop weight very quickly and then regain it slowly with this happening several times but she was pts when her lameness that she had been retired for got worse and no pm was done so cannot be certain.

It all depends on the horse and its quality of life, I would not say pts because the horse cannot be ridden for whatever reason, but if its in pain or not happy in itself and there is no obvious reason then I would make the decision. Not an easy one but with your friends horse and considering the state you say she was in I would not rule out ragwort poisoning either as from the sound of the place she was kept at it could well be a possibility :(
 
Sorry if this answer doesn't seem relevant, but has she been tested for Cushings? We have recently had a couple of horses diagnosed at the yard I am at and it may be something just to rule out first? I am very sorry for their situation, it must be absolutely heartbreaking :(
 
Thanks for all the thoughtful answers. Really helpful.

No she hasn't had a cushings test. She has never been "ill" or had any problems other than the touch of stiffness since she came back. When she came back, she put on weight nicely. It was August time when she came back and actually mid winter they had to CUT her feed back as she was doing a bit too well and looked pregnant! That's a really interesting thought. I will call her and get her to discuss it with the vet.

There are no other signs of a virus... she is certainly not off her food or anything of the like. Does even seem terribly "quiet", just the not really caring about her little friend going was so so out of character.

Please, any other thoughts or experiences. I really appreciate it.
 
I think 'that' decision largely makes itself.
What I wouldn't do is PTS without finding out, for example, why a horse is lame or losing weight - it may be relatively easy to solve. So, I'd have bloods done, examinations etc, and if the future didn't look bright, that would be the time.
Many oldies tell you when it's time...
S :D
 
I had my beloved 21 year old ex racer PTS 4 weeks ago. The first signs showed back in January time when I tried to get him out of his stable one morning and he was so crippled, but at the time I thought it was an abscess. So I called the farrier who came straight out and also thought it was an abscess. But he couldn't find anything. So I waited and then called the vet who also thought it was an abscess. Nothing came out and he gradually made small improvements. But he never came 100% sound. So in March I took him for x-rays and the vet was convinced that it was in his hoof - nothing showed. So I took him home, carried on with gentle hacking etc. Then in June time the farrier came out to shoe him and it was like he had gone mad. We gave him sedalin but he was still rearing and it was impossible to get front shoes on. The farrier commented on how stiff he was in his knees. We knew he had arthritis in his knees, but didn't know quite how bad. From this point, his shoes came off and he was retired to the field. He had always been the herd leader and involved in everything. Slowly he deteriorated. He got stiffer and stiffer and moved to the edge of the herd. He didn't play and despite the bute he got worse. I brought him on the night of 14th October and called the vet who came straight out. She made the decision for me there and then, although I already knew in my mind what the decision had to be.
You know when it's time to make that decision- if you know the horse well enough the horse will tell you. Good luck to your friend. It's the hardest decision to make. xx
 
galaxy23 said:
Thanks for all the thoughtful answers. Really helpful.

No she hasn't had a cushings test. She has never been "ill" or had any problems other than the touch of stiffness since she came back. When she came back, she put on weight nicely. It was August time when she came back and actually mid winter they had to CUT her feed back as she was doing a bit too well and looked pregnant! That's a really interesting thought. I will call her and get her to discuss it with the vet.

There are no other signs of a virus... she is certainly not off her food or anything of the like. Does even seem terribly "quiet", just the not really caring about her little friend going was so so out of character.

Please, any other thoughts or experiences. I really appreciate it.
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Sorry, i don't want to harp on about the whole Cushings test, as it is entirely the owners decisions, however one of the horses who has been diagnosed at my yard was thought to have initially been suffering from "old age" he was stiff, not quite with it, seemed to be in a different world and not care about a huge amount - even went slightly off his food. Throughout the investigation nothing in particular could be found as wrong with him until a Cushings test was done and his test was positive - since then he has been on medication for a couple of weeks and is now back to his cheeky old self. (Box_of_frogs will be able to give you more info). I'm only suggesting it because it's still quite fresh in our minds at the yard I'm at and as there were no particular symptoms apart from stiffness and appearing to be under the weather it may be worth the test, but either way I wish them the best of luck and I hope her mare recovers, or she find the strength to make the decision she feels is right.

x
 
Just spoke to my friend. She is so grateful and is ringing the vet first thing Monday to get book a blood test. She reminded me that they had a full blood screen run after they got her back in a state which was completely clear, so at least they have got that as a comparison.

Thank you everyone.
 
I have a couple of horses in their 30s. One holds weight very well and tends to remain at a stable weight throughout the year. The second is a TB and has to constantly have feed tweaked every month or so. The second horse will drop weight almost instantly if the horse gets a fright or small injury. It's like a totally ridiculous reaction to anything out of the norm. The horse is not a stressy horse and never seems to outwardly show any signs of upset but within days of anything happening will drop a significant amount of weight. I've always said that the day this happens and if the horse doesn't then pick up that weight again within a couple of months then that will be when serious reassessment will be done. So far (touch wood) the horse has always picked up the weight again fairly quickly. I've made the decisions for many horses when I believe they are nearing the end. I don't tend to go so much on physical symptoms, there's something in their eyes that tell you they're ready. When the sparkle has gone, it's time.
 
For me if it is something minor I dont mind sorting it out via vet etc ie a deep cut or lameness not too severe. But when he goes down and is sad and sorry then for me thats the time. ie if he isnt leading a horses life and looks unhappy then I will get mine pts. I know sending him to hospital having lots of tests etc will be unfair etc and stress him out.He doesnt load easily either and is quite arthritic already. So thats it. Easier said than done I am sure. The only decision I havent got to grips with is usually they are bolted but am veering towards the injection?? but dont really know..the hunt did the last horse and were brilliant and very kind to him as deed was done.

One good thing with your friends horse is at least the horse came back and has been cared for at the end of their days despite what happened in between. It could have been worse. Good luck.
 
galaxy23 said:
Just spoke to my friend. She is so grateful and is ringing the vet first thing Monday to get book a blood test. She reminded me that they had a full blood screen run after they got her back in a state which was completely clear, so at least they have got that as a comparison.

Thank you everyone.
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Fingers crossed for them :)
 
We've been at that point with lottie several times. The vet give her a weeks grace as not in pain just weak and poor, mainly for me to get used to the idea. She's always picked up in that week, as if she knows. I'm hoping I will understand when she tells me she's ready. I've thought she was a couple of times and been quickly convinced otherwise by her. I would look for reasons for drop before making any decisions.
 
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