FionaM12
Well-Known Member
The above two statements seem contradictory. Your first post certainly gives the impression that you were "sticking your nose in", but now you say they asked for your advice?
Without being rude how do you tell someone their managment does not suit the horse ?
- Thread starter Gingerwitch
- Start date
The above two statements seem contradictory. Your first post certainly gives the impression that you were "sticking your nose in", but now you say they asked for your advice?
Dancing Queen
Well-Known Member
I'm of the school of thought that it is bugger all to do with you and you should keep your nose out. You mention the change of routine between earlier in the summer and now - but have you ruled out this being a response to less turnout coupled to less grass in the field or some other change in management which you are either unaware of, or haven't considered in your little evaluation.
If it's behaving in a potentially dangerous manner, yes maybe have a word, but being unusually friendly and calling isn't the end of the world
I agree!!
Keep your nose out chick - it wont be well recvd at all.
wallykissmas
Well-Known Member
Maybe some hay later in the arvo would help settle it untill the owners arrive ?
tazzle
Well-Known Member
I agree .... you did not say you had been asked for advice first time round....... if that is so then it puts a different slant on things.
If someone asks me for advice I give it ........ but sometimes people do not agree with it or wish to do something else. That is their perogative
I totally agree that mental issues are just as important as physical ones in order to have a contented horse..... however what it happening here is that your opinion that it is the lack of routine causing the problems might not be the case. An emaciated horse or a physical injury is not a matter of opinion its fact and objective, reasons for what you see as stressy horse are not
The Fuzzy Furry
Old Timer
On a mixed owner yard its often unwise to interfere unless its a matter of life & death & then its the YO/YM who needs to be approached to sort things out & not other horse owners. If you have a prob, then go to the YO/YM.
My 2 thrive on routine - MY routine, in MY yard
To add: unless your yard has a rule in place that horses must be attended to between XYZ am times (eg, 7 and 9am) and also between abc PM times (eg, 4 and 6pm), what right have you to start to dictate when a horse should be seen?
My 2 thrive on routine - MY routine, in MY yard
To add: unless your yard has a rule in place that horses must be attended to between XYZ am times (eg, 7 and 9am) and also between abc PM times (eg, 4 and 6pm), what right have you to start to dictate when a horse should be seen?
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Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
Origninally another livery told them that there horse was very unsettled - ie calling calling calling, and box walking and not settling in the stable.
They asked me several days later if it was still going on, and what did i think it was - i tried to be diplomatic and tell them that maybe the 2nd horse need more of a routine as it was especially unsettled when they came back late on a night to finish them off.
Since then the horse has become more and more agitated, the routine has become more and more unsettled. All the other horses on the yard are in a pretty static routine, fed around 7, out by half past - in around 2 or 5 depending on your requested catch in time.
The horse is turning into a nervous wreck - but you know what - after the reactions on here, I will just leave it to them - I am astounded by the venum i have recieved on here - and wont bother again
They asked me several days later if it was still going on, and what did i think it was - i tried to be diplomatic and tell them that maybe the 2nd horse need more of a routine as it was especially unsettled when they came back late on a night to finish them off.
Since then the horse has become more and more agitated, the routine has become more and more unsettled. All the other horses on the yard are in a pretty static routine, fed around 7, out by half past - in around 2 or 5 depending on your requested catch in time.
The horse is turning into a nervous wreck - but you know what - after the reactions on here, I will just leave it to them - I am astounded by the venum i have recieved on here - and wont bother again
FionaM12
Well-Known Member
Very true.
What confuses me, is that if they asked for your advice, OP, why are you asking us in the title how to tell them?
They asked, you tell them. Simple.Maybe they don't agree with your advice? In that case, I'd drop it. I don't think you have the right to impose your opinions on them.
FionaM12
Well-Known Member
AmyMay
Situation normal
Thie is a situation your YO should be dealing with.
FionaM12
Well-Known Member
I don't think ours would.
He might step in if it was a definite cruelty issue, but even then I'm not sure. He's a farmer, all the liveries are DIY and he doesn't really get involved.He'll offer advice if asked (he's experienced with horses) and he'd probably have a word if the horse's behaviour was dangerous or a nuisance. But otherwise, probably not.
JFTDWS
+++ Out of Cheese Error +++
True - because these are both things which can be measured objectively and acted on within the law by the relevant authorities. Whilst mental cruelty is equally abhorrent, it is rarely as easy to quantify and identify the solution - what constitutes mental cruelty is often very subjective. For example, I regard keeping a horse stabled 24/7 as mental cruelty - but there are people who disagree and it would be very hard to stop people doing it. I also find certain schooling methods abhorrent, but again, because I can't prove it is detrimental objectively, there's nothing I, or anything else, can do at present.
I don't keep my horses in a strict routine - it's not mental cruelty for them as they're perfectly happy that way, they don't stress or show any outward signs of being unhappy. However, on a yard, I remember being incensed by one owner who regularly left their mare alone in the field after dark, or with only mine for company (without checking whether I was leaving them out or providing me with contact details so I could let them know the mare was freaking out), but since it was none of my business, there was nothing I could do. She was, imo very stressed, but others on the yard believed her to be "just a typical TB". To prove she was suffering from mental cruelty would be very challenging.
I know this is a massive, and unhelpful digression from your OP...
smellsofhorse
Well-Known Member
cant you leave an anonymous note?
Horsesgalore
Well-Known Member
If you read the whole thread you'll see that they asked her for her advice and she gave it.
So the owners know the OP thinks the horse needs a different routine. Presumably they either don't agree (as others have said, the horse could be stressed for another reason) or are unable to offer a regular routine.
Holly Hocks
Well-Known Member
Gingerwitch, I'm also pretty surprised by some of the replies you've received on here. You clearly care, otherwise you wouldn't be bothered by the horse's behaviour and you obviously are bothered. I think you are only trying to help and have been shot down in flames for wanting advice on how to help.
EstherYoung
Well-Known Member
Ours deliberately don't get a set routine. There are always going to be times when you can't keep to a routine (your competition start time is stupid o'clock.....the snow has meant you are late......you're sick.......your car has broken down.......you're held up at work.....the clocks change.....) and I don't want my horses falling to pieces because they are waiting for me.
You have a couple of options here:
- Offer to help. For example, offer to stick a haynet in for them if they know they are going to be late. Offer to bring the horse in when everyone else brings theirs in. Maybe in return they can do the same for you when they are up earlier than you can and the weather turns?
or
- Keep well out of it.
ps Does the field still have grass on it and is it well hayed with adequate shelter?
pps Some horses don't cope very well on busy yards where there are lots of people and horses. It may be this horse needs a quieter environment to live in. A more laid back atmosphere where the horses can have more turnout may be better for it. Horses only thrive on a routine because we give them one. Left to their own devices they may choose different bits of the field at different times of the day depending on the weather and the position of the sun, but they don't get distressed about things not happening unless they are lacking food, water or company.
You have a couple of options here:
- Offer to help. For example, offer to stick a haynet in for them if they know they are going to be late. Offer to bring the horse in when everyone else brings theirs in. Maybe in return they can do the same for you when they are up earlier than you can and the weather turns?
or
- Keep well out of it.
ps Does the field still have grass on it and is it well hayed with adequate shelter?
pps Some horses don't cope very well on busy yards where there are lots of people and horses. It may be this horse needs a quieter environment to live in. A more laid back atmosphere where the horses can have more turnout may be better for it. Horses only thrive on a routine because we give them one. Left to their own devices they may choose different bits of the field at different times of the day depending on the weather and the position of the sun, but they don't get distressed about things not happening unless they are lacking food, water or company.
BillyBob-Sleigh
Well-Known Member
I agree with the above, I think some of the answers you have received are totally uncalled for to be honest!
In regards to your situation it must be horrible seeing the poor horse so distressed, however you have already told them that you think the horse needs a more set routine, there's not a huge amount more you can do! The only other thing I would suggest is speaking to the YO/YM.
GingerTrotter
Well-Known Member
I dont keep a routine for this reason too. One of my horses is a stress head and over the years i have had to mix up his routine so he doesnt get stuck in one!
It used to be that if he didnt get his feed by 4pm he's stick his feet through the gate or churn the field up panicing (he was a starved youngster in a previous ownership therefore food obsessed)
He now has learn that I do come and feed him EVERY day and never miss one - he does come in when the weather gets bad but sometime he has to wait a minute if i'm at work. He is much more relaxed now that he used to be but i honestly think that if he had a strict routine and he would get more stressed if i missed the timings.
He does stress and box walk and bach the door if he doesnt get turned out straight away, ie after riding, feeding on sunny days, or such like but if i do sometimes but as soon as you leave the yard and go inside (I can spy on him from my livingroom window) he stops! he only does it because you are there to watch - drama queen!
he's quite happy really
Luci07
Well-Known Member
However GW said that the owners did have a stricter routine previously and the horse was fine with it. Why not just say that it doesn' seem to be doing so well with the new routine and seems to prefer a firmer timetable. When I was on DIY I did have a strict timetable but I managed this by buddying up with another livery so we could give each other a break and also back up in the event of delays snow etc.
Queenbee
Well-Known Member
Speak to the YO or suggest to the woman/girl that you do her horses for her if you're that bothered
Honestly, I must say it's nothing to do with you and if some interfering do gooder told me how to look after my horse, they'd be getting short shrift in return!
Yes, I'd want to know if horse was unhappy/distressed at all but to be told when they should and shouldn't be turned out is nobodies business but my own
TBH, I don't generally do conflict but you wouldn't like my response if you interfered in the way I keep mine. Its quite frankly none of your business, they are fed, hay-ed, watered, generally well cared for as far as you are saying, and to some extent horses have to fit into our lives as much as we have to accomodate them. At weekends I get to ebony any time between 9.30 and 10.30 for our morning ride, ben is left in and I turn them out when I get back. during the week they go out at 8, they just have to deal with it. I will to a certain extent not pander to a horse, if I did Ebony would be a nightmare. Not that I have to justify myself to you, and neither does this other person, its her business. Live and let live.
Queenbee
Well-Known Member
God you would hate me then, Ebs box walked, reared, tried to jump out of stable, did jump out of fields... repeatedly! Her bed was a soaking mess every day, you couldn't rug her because she got too sweaty and she looked so tucked up and wouldn't eat breakfast because she just wanted out.
Newsflash, some horses are like this. Her worst moments are when others are around, when the yard is busy, but that does not mean she hasn't gotten a lot more used to it and relaxed with it over time, in the last 2 years, she sleeps in her stable, eats her breakfast, doesn't box walk unless its when I turn up to go out for hack, and doesn't rear or try and jump out. She is 18. Horses are horses and the best way to deal with this type is to ignore them
darkhorse123
Well-Known Member
Agree - Im very pleased and proud my boy is a stress free chappy - first out, last in he doesnt care and I love it - much less stress and worry for me and him!
Last year id to put a note on my yard board asking peopel to leave him be if he was the last one out - it doesnt bother him but other liveries were bringing him in before I could get there.
I wasnt annoyed - knew they were beign kind - or thought they were. Truth is i like that he doesnt care beign alone or when i turn up and dont want him turning into some stresshead who expects to be brought in if he is the last out
Queenbee
Well-Known Member
This is exactly what I am trying to achieve with my youngster ben at the moment, an age of desensitising a t--t like ebony has taught me how important it is to have a horse you can just do anything with to suit you at times!
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
Same. I occassionally bring one of mine in overnight if he has an event early the next day but otherwise he lives out. I ride at different times and dont feed at strict times (morning - generally 7am - 9.30am and evening 4pm - 8pm). My horses couldnt care less and I think this is personally far more favourable than to have a routine so strict that a horse freaks out if you differ from it.
MissMincePie&Brandy
Well-Known Member
I think this is something that the YO would need to do. I don't think it would be wise to do it yourself. Contrary to what some people are saying I do think you are probably right, and the slightly more highly strung horse would benefit from a routine.
Herpesas
Well-Known Member
^^^This! My horse weaves far worse when he expects to go out/come in/get fed/be ridden at a certain time. Therefore, I do all the things he expects me to do at times he least expects me to do them. Some days I ride as soon as I get there, other days I do my jobs before I go and get him; I ride at all times of day; he gets fed anytime between 5 and 8 at night. The issue was compounded when he was on full livery and he knew what came next all the time. If I keep him guessing, he's actually more settled.
There could be a number of reasons why the horse is unsettled that aren't related to the lack of routine. She may be concerned that all the other horses are in by 5pm and worried she's going to be left out, it could be a change in grazing or nutrient/hunger levels.
My horse is a stress head - if you give him half an excuse, he'll stress about anything! Somethings I make arrangements to ensure the situation doesn't occur, ie. not being left out on his own; but most of the time he learns to deal with it and it usually doesn't take him long.
It's a good thing that you're looking out for your fellow liveries horses but, as others have said, if they don't want to take your advice there's really nothing you can do about it.
summerguest
Active Member
TBH I'm rubbish at routine, if they are hanging around by gate I think Ooh they are hungry I'll get them in, if they are happy grazing I leave them be. But thats the beauty of having them at home. I think they get more upset by other horses having a different routine to themselves than timescales. Prefer all horses fed / turned out/ brought in together if poss. Difficult to undertake at DIY yards.
Tnavas
Well-Known Member
It's best to stay out of it unless asked directly abouot the situation. I am one of these people that do not give my horse a routine then I know they won't be pacing up and down the fence line waiting for me to arrive.
When I do they come cantering to the gate to greet me. I also have the problem where the girl who shares the property with me strip grazes her horses and has them in such a small area they are going mental because they can't have a hoon around. It's also cutting up her grazing terribly and as the owner of the property is a no weeds freak its worrying as I don't want to lose my grazing becasue she has screwed up hers.
I have resisted all impulses to ask her why she restricts them to such a small area - they are both TB's and need the food - she is also still hard feeding them despite only one being in very light work.
Maybe her job involves shifts or split shifts that make it hard for her to be there at the same time each day. Maybe you could offer to turn out her horses when you go up in the morning then at least you know they are getting a good time out in the field.
When I do they come cantering to the gate to greet me. I also have the problem where the girl who shares the property with me strip grazes her horses and has them in such a small area they are going mental because they can't have a hoon around. It's also cutting up her grazing terribly and as the owner of the property is a no weeds freak its worrying as I don't want to lose my grazing becasue she has screwed up hers.
I have resisted all impulses to ask her why she restricts them to such a small area - they are both TB's and need the food - she is also still hard feeding them despite only one being in very light work.
Maybe her job involves shifts or split shifts that make it hard for her to be there at the same time each day. Maybe you could offer to turn out her horses when you go up in the morning then at least you know they are getting a good time out in the field.
X
xspiralx
Guest
Worst thing about livery yards - other liveries interfering and judging you for the way you look after your horse.
By all accounts this horse is cared for daily, fed, watered, turned out and rugged appropriately. So frankly as far as I'm concerned the rest of it is none of your business.
There are plenty of cases of real abuse and neglect that you could give your time and attention to.
By all accounts this horse is cared for daily, fed, watered, turned out and rugged appropriately. So frankly as far as I'm concerned the rest of it is none of your business.
There are plenty of cases of real abuse and neglect that you could give your time and attention to.
Marydoll
Well-Known Member
My horses routine varies, its a routine in the fact they do go out in the morning, at some point, not at a strictly rigid time, they are ridden whenever i choose to ride, and will come in at some point in the evening be checked over and groomed, if i choose to do it then and not before riding.
Fed hayed and watered. They are well cared for.
My third horse to join this herd was a bit of a stress head initially, but soon settled into the variable routine i set for her, not the other way around.
It took a few weeks but she is now as settled as the rest of them.
I choose to keep them this way as i work shifts 2 days a week when they are out at 06.00,or can be out at 09.00, or later of ive worked nights i do what works for me, and my horses need to fit around it.
Youve said your piece and theyve chosen not to go with your advice, it could be they may be in the same boat as me and work shifts, or cant stick to a rigid routine. As for offerring to help, i wouldnt want anyone other than people i choose handling my horses, and establishing a routine i couldnt possibly keep.
I think youve done all you can do and need to take a back seat now.
Fed hayed and watered. They are well cared for.
My third horse to join this herd was a bit of a stress head initially, but soon settled into the variable routine i set for her, not the other way around.
It took a few weeks but she is now as settled as the rest of them.
I choose to keep them this way as i work shifts 2 days a week when they are out at 06.00,or can be out at 09.00, or later of ive worked nights i do what works for me, and my horses need to fit around it.
Youve said your piece and theyve chosen not to go with your advice, it could be they may be in the same boat as me and work shifts, or cant stick to a rigid routine. As for offerring to help, i wouldnt want anyone other than people i choose handling my horses, and establishing a routine i couldnt possibly keep.
I think youve done all you can do and need to take a back seat now.