Wits End - please help!

[3OldPonies]

I was given a miniature horse recently, 19 months old and completely unused to being told what to do (he's also not been gelded yet as only one testicle has dropped, vets have done work to help the second but so far nothing doing). He bites when he can't get his own way and sometime just for fun as well. I've had a mini shetland stallion before and he was a bit of a handful to begin with but this one is in a league of his own.

I've been making progress with the biting, in that he does know now that he shouldn't be doing it, but this morning he added another string to his evil bow. We were having our usual battle about going for a walk (only in a headcollar, he's not been bitted yet) spinning round, trying to bite my legs and feet and then it escalated completely. and he started spinning round to face me and then rearing at me, teeth as well. After a few of these I let him just stand and go in circles, the only direction he would go in was back home. If I tried to get him to go away from home he started rearing again. Eventually I got a bit of control back and we walked home fairly OK. But, when we got back I didn't think it would be good for him to go straight back out in the field as then he would have learnt that rearing gets him what he wants, so I tried to put him in his stable. At this point he launched a full on attack rearing and biting and nearly had me on the ground at one point. I did however muscle him into the stable and left him there till he'd cooled off. The short walk from stable to field was perfectly well behaved when I let him out.

I'm feeling a bit of a failure now and at a loss to know what to do. I'm having to keep him separate from my two oldies as he attacks one of them because he won't have little in bossing him around and I really don't want to teach him that rearing is the way to get what he wants, but to be honest it was really frightening having him come at me like that. I know this is the first time he's done it, but how do I stop him if he does it again? I don't want to give up on him, I'm his third owner since leaving his breeder as it is, but I feel so rotten about what happened this morning and I don't want to lose my confidence with him - he knew I was scared today - help!

Sorry for the long thread, feeling a bit emotional right now - he was given to me because the previous owner couldn't cope and I'm starting to realise now just how spoilt a brat this pony is. The owner before that kept him as a pet in her back garden and got rid because of his bad behaviour.

 

[YorksG]

Is there anyone near by who has other colts/ geldings that he could be turned out with? I have a friend who breeds minis and some cobs, she turns out in groups where lads like yours would get a sharp lesson in manners, from other horses! She has bought in a few who were spoiled rotten by people and needed a short sharp shock from other equines, they have all come good when they realised their place in the world.

 

[Merlod]

Are there any other horses he can go out with? Younger, biggers ones that will teach him his place in the herd?! I think he really needs to be in with others.

As for the rearing, my sec D as a colt was a frightful to lead – not aggressive like yours, but very strong and very naughty! I ended up attaching two lead ropes. Me on one side, mum on the other. When he went to rear and box one of us, the other one of us would pull him back – it really helped having control from both sides and another person so we could keep him “away” when he directed towards one of us.

And I might get some flack for this, sometimes ignoring the bad and rewarding the good doesn’t work with ponies like yours. He needs to see you as the boss, because at the moment he is in charge of you. Next time he has a violent outburst I would be tempted to give him a bit of a wholloping if he were mine.

 

[Merrymoles]

If he is scaring you, you need some different tactics. I don't think 19 months is too young for bitting if it helps you to be in control but I don't have any real experience with minis. Presumably they make breaking bits for mini and you could then lead him from a rounding on the bit?

I also have no experience of controller halters but do know they are successful for some people so might be worth a try?

If neither of these ideas is practicable, I would certainly lead with a lunge line so that you can stay out of range. He is probably starting to feel the effects of testosterone and is testing you in the same way that colts test each other. Make sure your commands are consistent and assertive and he will begin to learn that you are not an animal he wants to "horse around" with.

 

[epeters91]

My advice would be, try and think of yourself as scary. When he tries it on rearing and biting (as much as you may be inwardly freaking out) you need to stand strong use your voice tell him it's unacceptable, wave your arms, make noise and get him to back away from you. My youngster went through a stage of being aggressive around food and I had to change the situation from her coming at me to backing away from me. If you can make him back away from you then he's not winning the fight and your the dominent one which is how you want it. Carry a whip if necessary and smack it against your boot to make a noise or point it towards him to keep him at arms length. As soon as he's being good lots of fuss and praise, he'll soon learn it's much easier to do as you say than fight all the time.

 

[Wagtail]

What type of halter are you using? If it is a normal head collar, I would get him a small rope (Parelli type) halter and long lead rope. When he rears give him one hell of a yank downwards on it. Use the end of the long rope to keep him away from you (spin the end of it around so that if he comes towards you he runs into it and gets a nasty flick in the face. Then it's not you hitting him but self inflicted. This is a much more effective way of teaching them that unwanted behaviour is unpleasant for them. They associate it with their own actions rather than yours IYSWIM.

 

[madlady]

Sorry but I'd be introducing him to Mr Blue Pipe! And by that I don't mean beating him with it (although I would give him a crack with it if needed) - I used it with both my colts when they had a phase - mainly to bang on the floor near their legs or push into their chest - it was like an arm extension and meant that I could give them a poke from a safe distance.

What he has done today is a total challenge - his way of saying that he considers himself above you. It's something that you need to nip in the bud now.

I know that colts can be prone to biting and waving their front paws about as that is what they would do with another horse but he has to understand that it's not acceptable behavior with humans.

One thing to consider though is could he be in pain from the retained testicle? Does your vet know where the offending article is? Is it definitely in the inguinal canal?

Is there anyone who can help you? With 2 of you I'd be taking him out with one at his head and one behind him (with schooling whip or blue pipe ) ready to send him on when he starts performing. Also you need to be firm and consistent with him all the time.

When Daegan had a stint of standing on his back legs we had him in a rope halter - he was sharply brought back to all fours with the a very firm 'STAND UP' and then we would carry on with whatever we were doing. It took a couple of weeks and to be fair he's never done it since. He already knew his manners though.

 

[Palindrome]

Perhaps a grazing muzzle could be a good short term solution to prevent him biting when you are working with him and enable him to be turned out with the others.
Then work on the lunge in an enclosed space to teach him voice commands, what the whip means, moving haunches or shoulders away, backing up, etc...

 

[3OldPonies]

Wow, thanks everyone for your ideas I knew coming on here would be the thing to do. Everyone is so supportive and helpful.

I wish there were somewhere I could send him to learn some lessons from other horses, but nearly all the yards round here are closing - to make way for houses - one yard started it and the landowners all seem to have caught the same 'get rich quick' bug and are either selling up or building themselves He came to me originally on a temp basis as he was about to be homeless, as the ones that are left aren't mini proof and/or didn't want a colt around the place in case of any accidental coverings. I'm having to keep him 'high security' behind lots of electric fencing as it is because the yard at the bottom of our lane have mares and they've made it more than clear that they're not happy about him being so close as it is

I hadn't thought of putting his grazing muzzle on to put him out with my boys - that is certainly a good thought I'd be a lot happier about trying that again with the muzzle on - goodness knows why I didn't think of that - what an idiot I can be sometimes I don't think P would go for him so badly in retaliation if he wasn't being bitten.

I like the lunge lines/scary spice idea - I could certainly try that one if we are out alone, and I could probably get a friend (when shes stopped laughing at his antics - its always funny till you are on the receiving end) to be a leading buddy on the other side so we could do that one as well and pull him away if he rounds on one of us. Funnily enough I was thinking about starting to lunge him so he gets more excercise and I get to be seen more as the boss. So yes, that's something I can get started on as soon as the frost is out of the ground. On balance and having read more replies since I started typing, I think walkies will stop for a bit and we'll concentrate on learning some manners at home first, time for some groundwork! Give him something to think about other than how best to get at me. It'll be a lot easier being assertive from a slight distance as it will give me a chance to 'chase him off' before he gets close enough to launch himself. Brave pants time for me.

I think the hormones are definitely having an effect because some days he can be really calm and a pleasure to be out with and then there are days like today when everything is a battle. The sooner no. 2 drops the better, then it'll be a quick visit from the vet! I was told that it could take until he's 3 for this breed though Let's just hope the surgery he's already had to open up the canal works sooner rather than later.

I shall keep persevering though - when he's nice he's a perfect angel and he's very friendly kind and loves people as long as they do what he wants so I could see him becoming one of those ponies with more owners than most of us have had hot dinners if he doesn't get sorted out now.

 

[Damnation]

The blue pipe being hit on the floor infront of them is a good idea, makes a good noise. Also making yourself "bigger" with a deep voice helps. I'll usually put an arm in the air and stamp towards them whilst growling something like "pack it in", just enough to give them the idea that encroaching on "my space" without invitation is a bad idea.

I usually find that this behaviour manifests when they don't respect "your space". My last TB mare was like this, 4, just off the track and turned away, dominant, not afraid to fling a foot at me. Leading her usually resulted in her cantering in circles around me and then rearing when I made her stop and throwing a general strop or refusing to move because she didn't want to leave the field.

Firstly in the school I taught her to move back, move sideways, stop when I stop etc, so she knew the commands. I also did it on a rope halter to "teach her" what the pressure of it meant. So outside when she acted up, I made her stop and walk backwards, out of my space. Sometimes waving am arm above my head (or a whip, I am short I need all the height help I can get!) and stomping my feet, banging my rustly coat, or hitting a whip on my boot, anything that makes noise. If she then reared she got a slap. Far too dangerous to pussy foot around that and she did actually hit my hip, rearing, with her front foot (She was shod too and it has damaged my hip) once and that was the end of me playing mr nice guy!

I am not saying beat your horse up, I am saying use body language (Similar to a herd situation) to teach him it is unacceptable to firstly, come into your space without invitation and secondly, then try and bite and kick you!

I would say he is also in desperate need of turnout with some other horses that will put some manners on him!

 

[twiggy2]

What type of halter are you using? If it is a normal head collar, I would get him a small rope (Parelli type) halter and long lead rope. When he rears give him one hell of a yank downwards on it. Use the end of the long rope to keep him away from you (spin the end of it around so that if he comes towards you he runs into it and gets a nasty flick in the face. Then it's not you hitting him but self inflicted. This is a much more effective way of teaching them that unwanted behaviour is unpleasant for them. They associate it with their own actions rather than yours IYSWIM.

I agree with this and it may also be a good idea to discuss his antics with your vet, I am not sure it the could chemically castrate him at such a young age with out long term issues, personally I would be booking him in to have his bits off now despite it being a full surgical proceedure, you can't carry on like this log term.

 

[3OldPonies]

Blimey Damnation - having a TB doing that to you sounds really scary. Well done you for standing your ground and sorting it out. Could I borrow your brave pants please? You're right of course - he has no respect for my space, he's throwing his toys about and it is going to stop - one way or another, he's been getting the odd whallop for his biting so you'd think he would realise I'm not a total softy; whereas previous owners have just gone 'oh don't do that' and let him carry on regardless. (I know this, cos I've seen it with my own eyes and heard the scream when he carried on where he left off . . . ) He's definitely challenging my authority,but I'm getting over the fright he gave me this morning and determination is setting back in - everyone's suggestions have been so useful. After what happened i was feeling a total numpty and not at all sure how to proceed, but you've all given me a lot to think about, and so I should be able to give him something to think about now as well . . .

 

[paddy555]

are you female? If he has been through several homes and learnt to get away with it have his previous owners been females?

I bought a young haflinger who had been bottle fed. He had had problems (I didn't know when I bought him) and had been looked after by girls who in their attempts to keep him alive had pandered to his every whim. By 2 he had learnt to be a male chauvenistic pig and women were there to be walked over, literally. (he was gelded well before then so that was not the issue)

I watched his male owner handle him and he was perfect. My OH didn't have too many problems but, oh boy, did he lead me a merry dance. Doors were to be barged through, teeth were there to bite boobs. They were just at his mouth height. He was a nightmare and by the time he was 3 got a lot worse. Any attempt at schooling or doing anything was met with rearing which with 15hh was quite frightening. I really struggled to get through to him. Hitting, blue pipes etc don't help, being very agressive and demanding and growling helped and especially keeping him out of your space. Hitting the floor with pipe etc works better. However if he really bit or kicked you I would let him have it. I don't think putting him away in a stable to think about it will help. He doesn't want to think (he has already thought!!) he wants to know who is the leader and if you are going to really stand up to him.

Do you have a male handler who is good who could have a go at leading him etc to see what happens?


As for the rearing someone told me the solution. They told me to let him rear on a lunge rein but to position myself correctly holding my whip. The position is at the side of him next to his hind leg. When he reared to let him have it once where it hurt him.
I set him up, got in position but somehow he knew! I didn't have to hit him. He must have realised he was vulnerable with me at the side. His body was safe when I was in front and his front legs were in charge. He was not so safe with his undercarriage exposed. He was much better after that. I would second the muzzle as well for your safety.

If he was mine I would turn him out for 3 years with a couple of decent sized horses who won't be scared of him and let him grow up.

 

[3OldPonies]

Good idea Twiggy - talking to the vet would be an idea - I'll also ask his old owner, still very much in contact as to why when he went in to have his bits done they didn't go the whole hog and remove troublesome no. 2 while he was under having the canal opened up. Might have just been cost, but could it be that No 2 wasn't developed enough and they didn't want to risk leaving bits behind? I'm a little hazy tbh on how that would have worked out, could he have ended up a rig which would have been even more trouble if that had been the case?

 

[JillA]

Get some help, to get you on the right track, minis and small ponies are very adept at reading your body language in a way you will struggle to understand. These people are well trained and very good, and most aren't hugely expensive http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/specialist-horse-training.html . Once you have had a visit and some training ideas, you will then have them at the end of the phone for the future - a good investment I would say.

 

[3OldPonies]

Paddy555 yep, I am female. And yes, all his old owners were as well. On the one occasion my dad walked him out he was just as bad with him . I had wondered about sex being the issue; this little guy is so confused it's hard to tell which way he's going to go next. This morning was his first attempt at full on aggressive though. He can be nervous at times, and sometimes it's pretty easy to see that is the problem and then I go more gently with him - an example rugging up - don't get me wrong I'm not molly coddling - just a rain sheet when the heavens completely open like they have done a lot lately as he waterlogs quite easily. But he was terrified of having it put on, and I saw him with it on with the old owner and I think from what has been said that it just used to get chucked at him and fastened any old how. He has learnt at least from me doing it slowly and properly with encouragement when he's good that there's no reason to be scared of that anymore. The same with grooming, to start with he was a nightmare to tie up and groom, but we've made really good progress there as well and he will stand and be groomed now, although it was a battle royal to start with, a bit of a thump when necessary and encouragment when he got it right and he has come on really well.

Your haffie sounds like he was awful, it's positive stories like those that are making me feel a whole lot better - if you guys can do it with bigger horses then there's no reason at all why this little chap can't be sorted.

 

[3OldPonies]

Another excellent suggestion JillA - and you're quite right - minis are brilliant at understanding us and so fast to do it. My mini shetland was quite amazing in that department and this little one is just as good, he knew perfectly well this morning he had me on the back foot. I need to up my game and get stuck in. I think there are some intelligent horsemanship people near me - I shall do some detective work - thanks.

 

[Damnation]

No brave pants here, just young and stupid! She was around 15.2hh

I used to work on a Stud and livery so having pampered little darlings rear up at me or drag me places was nothing new to me (they only did it once..) and I used to handle the stallion who come spring time could be a bit of a handful, I learnt alot from doing that.

I also read Kelly Marks book "Perfect Manners" and went to a Monty Roberts approved instructor who really helped me understand about what I needed to ask the horse for with regards to "space" and what I as the herd leader should be doing to inforce it. I won't lie my mare got the odd slap and I meant it, too bloody dangerous to allow it to continue. I was on a yard with young children! After a good month or two of boot camp, we only had small "relapses" that were easily dealt with and forgotten about.

She wasn't scared of me (Too bloody dominant for that), she respected me. My problem was, even in the field she would march in and be leader in 10 seconds flat, no other horse would put her in her place. She was put in with a mare once who thought she was a stallion, had huge hormone problems, had a reputation as a bully and almost a hand bigger and chunkier than my dainty little gem. My little TB was in charge after half an hour.

Also, wear a hat, gloves and use a lunge line. Think of your safety!

 

[_GG_]

Blimey, what a little toerag!

There's nothing funny about this and in some ways, I find it more dangerous when it's smaller ponies rearing and striking out than larger horses. They are so quick and with little ones, when they are up and strike, it's eye level, it's really hard to be out of the way of them.Larger horse, higher up, potential injuries could be far worse, but I've always found there is more time and room to be safe.

I cannot and will not tolerate behaviour like this in any horse. Partly because I can't afford to be badly hurt and partly because it almost writes their future in stone and I think it's perfectly acceptable to take a hard line with a horse when doing so has the potential to save it from a horrid future.

As others have said, you need to find your inner scary bat poo crazy monster. I say this with caution though as, you need to be VERY aware when doing this that sometimes, some horses will take it as a challenge and come back at you even more, so you need to make damn sure you can back it up. If you don't want to use anything physical, go and buy a "Pet Corrector" can from a pet shop. It's just a can of compressed air and is so far away from what any animal expects, it scares the living daylights out of them and can give you a few precious moments of total confusion from the horse that allows you to stay very calm, stroke the forehead and pick up what you were doing. Give them enough time to process what's happened, but not enough time to regroup their frustration. It's more of an extremely effective interruption than a punishment but for something so cheap and harmless, it can be really, really effective.

 

[3OldPonies]

You've hit a nail on the head there Damnation - I don't want him to be scared of me - just some respect that i'm the boss and when I say do something he does it. If a whallop is what's needed that's what he'll get, and encouragement when that is needed also. I want to be fair to him and give him the opportunity to learn so that he gets brought up as a well mannered and adjusted horse. I'm also well aware that mini horse colts and stallions have a reputation for trying it on and general bolshiness, perhaps I need to put that thought to the back of my head. Maybe I'm starting off slightly on the confrontational foot? But then again, by not backing down when he started while we were out this morning I think lead to the trouble when I wanted him to go in and he didn't want to go. tbh the only reason I put him in to cool off was because I needed time out! Sometimes when I get scared, which I was my way out is to lash out as well, and with him doing it too, it was only ever going to end even worse than it was already getting. At least by getting him in, we both took a few minutes to cool off and when I lead him out to the field it was positive in that he walked nicely alongside me, didn't try to bite, definitely didn't rear and he even stood quietly while I closed the gate. Apart from me losing my cool if we'd gone straight to the field and not had time in the stable was that I was worried that he would turn on me as soon as I took the headcollar off and then I could have really been in trouble.

btw - I'm dusting my hat off and putting it ready to go the stables as soon as I finish this message! I'd not worn it before, but I'm definitely going to now.

 

[_GG_]

You've hit a nail on the head there Damnation - I don't want him to be scared of me - just some respect that i'm the boss and when I say do something he does it. If a whallop is what's needed that's what he'll get, and encouragement when that is needed also. I want to be fair to him and give him the opportunity to learn so that he gets brought up as a well mannered and adjusted horse. I'm also well aware that mini horse colts and stallions have a reputation for trying it on and general bolshiness, perhaps I need to put that thought to the back of my head. Maybe I'm starting off slightly on the confrontational foot? But then again, by not backing down when he started while we were out this morning I think lead to the trouble when I wanted him to go in and he didn't want to go. tbh the only reason I put him in to cool off was because I needed time out! Sometimes when I get scared, which I was my way out is to lash out as well, and with him doing it too, it was only ever going to end even worse than it was already getting. At least by getting him in, we both took a few minutes to cool off and when I lead him out to the field it was positive in that he walked nicely alongside me, didn't try to bite, definitely didn't rear and he even stood quietly while I closed the gate. Apart from me losing my cool if we'd gone straight to the field and not had time in the stable was that I was worried that he would turn on me as soon as I took the headcollar off and then I could have really been in trouble.

btw - I'm dusting my hat off and putting it ready to go the stables as soon as I finish this message! I'd not worn it before, but I'm definitely going to now.

The hat is a MUST....absolutely

Also, if you have any protective clothing, wear that as well. There were a couple of almost feral TB's I used to deal with a bit and I would wear my motorbike textiles, full of body armour to handle them. It would have protected me more than standard clothes, but more so...it made me feel stronger and that was all that was needed with them.

Good luck.

 

[3OldPonies]

Blimey, what a little toerag!

There's nothing funny about this and in some ways, I find it more dangerous when it's smaller ponies rearing and striking out than larger horses. They are so quick and with little ones, when they are up and strike, it's eye level, it's really hard to be out of the way of them.Larger horse, higher up, potential injuries could be far worse, but I've always found there is more time and room to be safe.

I cannot and will not tolerate behaviour like this in any horse. Partly because I can't afford to be badly hurt and partly because it almost writes their future in stone and I think it's perfectly acceptable to take a hard line with a horse when doing so has the potential to save it from a horrid future.

As others have said, you need to find your inner scary bat poo crazy monster. I say this with caution though as, you need to be VERY aware when doing this that sometimes, some horses will take it as a challenge and come back at you even more, so you need to make damn sure you can back it up. If you don't want to use anything physical, go and buy a "Pet Corrector" can from a pet shop. It's just a can of compressed air and is so far away from what any animal expects, it scares the living daylights out of them and can give you a few precious moments of total confusion from the horse that allows you to stay very calm, stroke the forehead and pick up what you were doing. Give them enough time to process what's happened, but not enough time to regroup their frustration. It's more of an extremely effective interruption than a punishment but for something so cheap and harmless, it can be really, really effective.

Couldn't agree more GG - I've had bigger young horses misbehave around me and it's not nearly so scary as seeing a pair of feet in front of your face like I did this morning; or having them hit your arm and knock you backwards, natural human instinct kicked in and my arm went up to stop a trip to the dentist. He was so aggressive it was awesome. You're right of course about sometimes they might come back at you if you get bat poo monster, so I'm going to try the lungeline approach and groundwork to start with so at least I may have some time for correcting him if he does come at me again. That was another of the problems this morning - he was just too close and I had no time to get out of the way and do anything to stop him.

I know I've said that I'm going to do a lot of things on here in response to suggestions, but in all honesty I am going to try everything I can do stop this behaviour. Little kids are so often around little ponies, that there is no way on this planet he can carry on as he did today.

 

[3OldPonies]

The hat is a MUST....absolutely

Also, if you have any protective clothing, wear that as well. There were a couple of almost feral TB's I used to deal with a bit and I would wear my motorbike textiles, full of body armour to handle them. It would have protected me more than standard clothes, but more so...it made me feel stronger and that was all that was needed with them.

Good luck.

Good point - I shall hunt out my body protector as well.

 

[Identityincrisis]

Agree with everyone, but fully sympathise with you! I have a going on 5 yr old Anglo Arab who was full of his own importance when I got him as a 3yr old. He was SO dominant, biting, snarling at me, rearing, leg flinging and using his shoulder to direct where we were going.

I had a real struggle with him but it was only while leading, backing him was a breeze! Anyway I tried all sorts and was about to sell him as I was at a loss and totally defeated (others really struggled to lead him too, they were as terrified as me)

Anyway I was lucky and had a friend who is an 'old fashioned horseman' and is used to TB colts etc so he took him on for a week, and do you know what? The little ***** didn't put a foot wrong!! But that was the beginning for me, to see that he COULD behave gave me confidence...... and a chifney!!! I'd used pressure headcollars and he just didn't respect them, but I'd been loathe to try the chifney but i've never looked back, he instantly respects it and in turn that gave me more confidence that I could handle him and I rarely use it now.

So yes it's all about respect and confidence but you have to gain that from somewhere so don't worry if you have to be stronger than you'd like to be to begin with, you can be gentler once you have established you are the leader.

 

[3OldPonies]

Thanks Identityincrisis - one of the things that I have in the back of my mind - another one to get rid of - is that he's so small it must look terrible to people who aren't knowledgeable when they see me with gloves and a substantial whip when I lead him out. I've been using the whip for noise on my boot and to send him forwards when he's tried the spinning round me and biting, which until this morning had been working. I'm bringing this up because of your comment about being stronger than I'd like to be, looking back there are occasions when I've not perhaps been totally on it because of the 'other people watching' thought. We have a footpath running across the field so there is always someone watching somewhere But I do totally get that I can't be like that, this morning has totally opened my eyes and we're going to get this thing sorted - b&gger everyone else - it's not them with feet waving in their faces.

Well down btw for getting your horse sorted - it's so annoying the way that they often behave for someone else! It's almost as bad when they do something you've just said they never do.

 

[Becks01]

I would get an Intelligent Horsemanship RA out as soon as possible, and get him a Dually headcollar if they come in his size so that you are able to 'school' him. Check out the Intelligent Horsemanship website for your nearest RA. It sounds like you could get hurt and he definitely needs to understand that you are the leader. One thing that often works is getting them to move, when you have control of their feet, you have control of the horse. On a very basic psychological level that puts you as the leader. It is often tiresome for the horse, being creatures that don't like to expend energy unnecessarily... when he misbehaves get him moving, back him up, move him forward, move him in circles, just move move move him. Then try to lead again...if he misbehaves again then off you go again.. It often doesn't take long before they get the idea. Good luck x

 

[Identityincrisis]

Ahhhh yes the others watching on tutting and shaking their heads!! I had all that and it did upset me but as you say, they're not on the end of the lead rope......or hooves!! And like I say, when they were, they quickly handed back the rope!

I honestly looked like I was going into battle at times hat, big coat, steel toe caps, gloves, long rope and a firm stick!

Thank you, 2 years in he leads like I would expect a 5yr old to lead and it feels gooooood

 

[varkie]

Given his young age, does he absolutely *need* so much handling? Personally, I would turn him away and leave him alone other than for absolutely necessary handling - farrier, vet, etc. Leave him like that until he has dropped enough to be cut - it's likely you'll have quite a different pony then. Also, he is far too young to be living alone - he needs company - company that won't stand for his nonsense, but won't kill him! You need to get him turned out with something that will firmly put him in place.

Over the years, I've found that those that are later to drop sometimes seem to be more difficult than those who already have them. Not sure why, or if there's any science behind it! I had a colt who was absolutely vile to handle (cob, not mini), and he took forever to drop, but once he was cut, he was a darling again - as he'd been before one began to come down. I've also had an entire handreared (and it sounds like yours has developed similar behaviours to a handreared - i.e. he has been spoilt) who was an utter git - being cut did him the world of good, and then zero tolerance on bad behaviour, while trying not to provoke it until he got the idea that being nice was better.

Given he's a mini, have you tried to find any shetland/mini horse studs near you, to see if they have a boy crowd he could turn out with? I ask, as I breed shetlands myself, and have a five-strong boy herd - as most studs do.

 

[Penks]

Can you see if there is a good horse behaviourist in your area who can help you?
(I don't mean a so called "airy fairy horse whisperer" type , I mean a good proven professional whose methods are rooted in science based learning.)

http://www.societyofequinebehaviourconsultants.org.uk

 

[3OldPonies]

Varkie, I get what you're saying, but I do think a lot of his trouble stems from not enough correct handling. You might be right that I'm trying to do too much at once, and of course I can back off a bit, and not do quite so much, but at his age i would at least expect to be able to lead him safely. That's all I'm asking, I'm not expecting him to do anything more than that. I'm going to attempt another meet and greet with my old pair but with him safely muzzled to begin with, he has a habit of biting at eyes and sheaths both of which could come with a hefty vet bill. I'd love to get him turned out with those two, but the way he immediately attacks its not really feasible. I