Wits end with old pony - a bit long, sorry

brighteyes

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My friend's old pony nearly died of liver failure several years ago. She's beginning to wish it had.

The pony was a normal-looking Section A and throughout has never had laminitis. She is 19 and looks like a whippet - dainty in the extreme and recently has been unable or unwilling to eat. This pony has been capricious in its eating to say the least, but of late is barely eating anything that they can see. She will go out on any lushness of grass you like and simply pick then lose interest and come to stand by the gate. She refuses to eat bucket feed, no matter what tempting morsels are put into it, turns her nose up at hay and haylage but remains, very perky and bright and enthusiastic.

It is a mystery how it remains alive. We don't know how she doesn't get colic, she isn't constipated and hyperlipaemia would have killed her by now as this pony has been existing of nothing for weeks, and only slightly more than nothing for months, if not years. Bizarrely, it has a large crest and is a tubular shape with the fat pads on the loins which are indicative of some sort of metabolic disorder.

Over the last few days, she has been digging up her bed, as if searching for something and rubbing her face, down each side from just above her eyes down to her muzzle. My friend thinks it's along the tooth line. She's not itchy anywhere else.

Since it is in one's make-up to nurture, this hopelessly optimistic but anorexic pony is driving her insane. The vet can't really do much as otherwise, the pony isn't ill.

The dentist is booked but in the meantime, this exasperating creature shows every indication of wanting to eat, getting to the point of taking a mouthful and then looking round as if to say 'I don't want this stuff'. They have tried everything, but for many years it has had fads and whims and then decided all food is poison. Why is it not dead?

Have any of you any ideas at all? She is really desperate.

I've got a Cushing's pony and (now) am well up on all the stuff needed to keep her going, but none of it applies to this other pony.
 
Has the ponys teeth been checked since the non eating started?

I know they have a dentist booked now but that would of been first thing i checked, sorry if you have already but post didnt say so wasnt sure.
Have you tried soaking grass nuts ?
 
Sorry to hear about your friends pony brighteyes, i know what a struggle it is to keep cushingoid & old ponies going and its heartbreaking when you're at a loss as to how to help them. The only thing i can think of is whether this pony is suffering from an abcess within her face/jaw. The reason i say this is because our cushingoid pony suddenly developed a poor appetite and the only thing you could get down her was soaked cubes etc. Thankfully she had always been a good eater and never faddy with her food. Within days her nearside cheek and jawline had become massively swollen and she would rub it along the wall/ door frame (anywhere just to make contact with something). It turned out to be an abcess and after weeks of draining and cleaning it healed. Sadly she was pts a couple of months later due to a sudden onset of kidney failure whether any of this was related remains a mystery. Im sorry i can't help you further, but please send your friend my best wishes, it heart breaking when you have to see them like this.

Becca x
 
Sounds to me like the pony is in chronic pain and I wouldnt be at all surprised if the dentist found something in the mouth/teeth/jaw.

Must say Im a bit surprised at the vet.
 
I would agree that the teeth could be the problem. An EDT should be able to help. Plus soak nuts to make them easy to eat. 19 is not really old for a pony.
 
Did she ever recover from the liver damage? Is a significant % of her liver damaged? Liver damage beyond about 70% can start to cause all sorts of bizarre problems one of which is severe loss of appetite. My rescue mare has over 70% liver damage thanks to an ignorant and uncaring previous owner who left her starving in a ragwort-infested field. She is on D&H Yea Sac which stimulates appetite and helps with the absorption of food in the hind gut. Further liver damage sypmtoms include neurological signs such as standing in a corner for hours or standing pressing the head against a wall. I'm sure I've read that it can also result in intense itching. Self harm can follow and the horse can also inadvertently harm the owner. It might be a good idea to urgently take blood for a liver function test. Sadly, it might also be a tumour.
 
To everyone

I think the appetite thing (and possibly the itching) is as a result of the liver failure. My mum died of a liver related problem but she itched all over. This pony very nearly died about seven or eight years ago but has since been a very kiesty eater and of whippet-like build although full of vitality and enthusiasm - and, I have to say, a certain amount of mischeivousness. Not ever depressed, though. The skin is bald each side of her face now and it's deffo rubbing and not head-pressing. They are almost praying now for some recognisable sign of anything - rather than these weird behavioural oddities which don't indicate anything classically.

Our pony is fussy, and drives me mad, but this one has been 'off the scale' in terms of fussiness ever since I have known her. Makes for even more frustration with the feeding and dosing with medicines. It is the least greedy Welsh Section A in the history of the world. The last time I saw her, she didn't look thin - just like a very miniature thoroughbred - exquisitely dainty, totally in proportion including her tiny feet and not a rescue case by any stretch of the imagination. In fact it is a little monkey and not a novice ride even today, in her self-imposed (?) state of undernourishment.

Her vet treated her from the start of her liver issues and is well aware of her current problem - he presumably is also at a loss. How do you treat a pony which isn't eating much yet is full of life, not jaundiced, not lame and not really doing anything in particular? She happily crunched some rock-hard, boiled cough sweets before deciding she didn't like them after all - it's how she eats everything. Dives in like she's found something actually edible and turns her nose up shortly after that.

I'm more inclined towards the tooth thing causing the itching as my Cushingoid gets occasional mouth ulcers and eats very gingerly for a few days - and is fed soaked, lami approved pony nuts etc. I'm really well up on Cushing's but this pony does not fit into any of the slots with this disease - except, possibly the longer coat - but I'm pretty sure she sheds out every spring.

It's not old at 19. Mine is 28 this time
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- thanks to Jackie JA Taylor and you lot all helping and suggesting things. Simply heartbreaking watching friend's pony eagerly anticipating food - then looking at you as if you are trying to poison her. I wonder if she feels nauseous all the time - but why then is she not depressed - or dull or bad tempered or anything except perky?
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I think the dentist is due any minute and maybe he'll find the reason, but she can actually eat - if they can find something she agrees is tasty enough. She's accepting apple puree, apparently and I have sent along a few handfuls of my feed and forage, but has only picked at it. And she doesn't like soaked feed.......... there's just no helping a pony which won't be helped.

Thanks for reading and replying but if you lot can't come up with anything.........
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Will be very interested to hear what the EDT says. If he cant find anything then my next port of call would be a very good osteo or physio as it may be the physical action of putting her head down to eat which is causing the discomfort.

Fingers crossed you can get to the bottom of this soon.
 
Yes, thanks Spans. I've known the pony for years and she's always been odd, but she's now taking this oddness beyond the pale! Her owners have spent a fortune on her both on conventional and natural remedy treatments and she continues to baffle everyone with her symptoms, faddiness and absolute refusal to die!
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The way you are talking I would seriously consider PTS. If they are just waiting for her to die surely it would be kinder to put her out of her misery now. Unless of course this is just your opinion on the situation and really they do want her to recover in which case I'd suggest a referral to a specialist equine vet as soon as possible.
 
Thing is HH. she's not miserable! And until she does something they can pinpoint and treat, it's almost like she's winding them up. She clearly can eat, but chooses not to. Always has been like this, only now is more so. It would be hard to put this bright wee pony down for no greater reason at the moment than personal frustration. She's slim but not ribby and certainly not weak or depressed.
 
Yeh Im pretty sure liver damage can cause itching, well certainly skin problems. A horse that belonged to my dad when he was younger had to be PTS because of liver damage which was causing skin problems
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but Im sure there is hope as this was maybe 30/40 years ago
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Brighteyes, I'd get a liver function test done asap. Also, YeaSac (D&H) is (a) an appetite stimulant and (b) increases the absorption of nutrition in the hind gut. However, the advice I had from Prof Derek Knottenbelt at Liverpool Uni - a world expert in ragwort poisoning in horses - was to not worry about it. Since there is no such thing as a waiting list for liver transplants for horses, he advised let your horse tell you. If she deteriorates or gets profoundly depressed or loses more weight or any of the things that we all know to look out for, she will let you know when she's had enough. Until then, just carry on doing what is currently working for her. That's what I'm doing for my rescue mare with severe ragwort poisoning. No more vets (unless things change) and just keep on doing whatever it is that has brought her back from the brink so far. If she only eats a little, you need to buy the best QUALITY food you can afford. Routine will reassure her and, above all, DON'T treat her like an invalid! Wishing you the very best and please do let us know how she progresses xxx
 
Brighteyes, I know you are waiting on the dentist and there is probably liver damage, but have you tried the homepathic route?

We had problems with our old mare, unfortunately relating to ragwort and we contacted Ainsworths Pharmacy in London (ask for the pharmacist) and explained our symptoms, they put some things in the post to us and within 2 weeks she was a different pony - we still aren't sure if it was the vets stuff or the homeopathic stuff, but have used the detox stuff several times over with sucess on other horses. Mistletoe was in good humour too, but couldn't get up easily or eat properly, pts was a real option at the time (I didn't agree with the vet and wanted to wait 48 hrs to make the decision) and 6 years on we are so grateful we didn't!

At least it would give you something to try? The pharmacist isn't a vet and can't diagnose whats wrong but can try and treat symptoms.
 
It is a good ides for the dentist to see the pony, I had an elderly Arab Stallion who went like this, the vet did all checks, even teeth, nothing wrong, however, when the specialist dentist came and sedated him to have a good look, maggots were falling out of his teeth and gums as she was cleaning them, gruesome! I was very angry at the vet for not noticing this, as we had tried every potion, feed etc. since then he has started to recover and I hope your friends pony will as well.
 
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