Wolf teeth and effect of removal

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stencilface

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So, my horse is 14, I've had him ten years and always known he had wolf teeth. They are at the top and are flush against his top teeth. They're still there as he doesn't object really, although I do have to wedge his bit in, and he takes ages to let it go. The vet or people or in the past were always of the opinion that if they don't cause any trouble, leave them.

I've had two different EDTs the last two years, and both have said remove them. One we had last week said as they position the bit in their mouths differntly, it affects the break over in their neck, they don't flex at the poll properly, and this can cause problems all along the back.

Now, he's never been a dressage star, doesn't really ever take me forwards in a contact etc, and has had psd, has regular chiro visits and always has a stiff neck from towing with his front legs, rather than pushing from behind. But then many of his ridden issues I can probably blame on competency of the jockey!

My question is, would you remove, I'm pretty sure I'm going to, as I don't think it will break the bank, and if it makes him more comfortable and he's happier ridden then that would be great. Have you had wolf teeth removedn an older horse? He's generally a pretty chilled chap, and has a low pain threshold generally I think so I think he'd tell me if it hurt, but who knows?!
 
My horse had his wolf teeth removed at six so I can't really advise on whether it is harder to remove the wolf teeth for an older horse, but the procedure was far easier than I thought it would be, my boy didn't even need to be sedated! I don't think his could have been very deep though - one fell out during a routine rasping so the vet just removed the other one for symmetry. My vet has an additional dental qualification and is very good with teeth so I use him rather than an EDT. So one fell out then the vet used a little device to remove the other one, it was a bit like an apple corer. It was totally easy and my horse was fine with it - I gave him the following day off and lunged him in a cavesson the day after that, and rode him as normal afterwards. I didn't notice a real difference in how he accepted the contact or whatever, but as they were so small and shallow I don't think they gave him any problems in the first place.

I think if I were you I would remove them, but it might be a bit more of a procedure for an older horse. It shouldn't be too stressful for him though.
 
Thanks, this is what I think, I'm not sure it will make much difference, but they are meant to be painful for them so unless I do it I won't know

I think it's illegal for an EDT to remove teeth, certainly what I've been told anyway so it will have to be vet :)
 
If he's got to 14 with them and you aren't doing high level stuff I'd leave him alone. The problems you mention are unlikely to be cured by removing them.
 
My cob had his wolf teeth out at 7 years old. The Dentist did it and I've always been told that EDT's are much better at horses teeth than Vets.
It was no big deal to remove and made a difference to how he was on the bit.
 
I'm not sure. I think you would know if they'd been bothering him for years.

I usually have an equine dentist do my horses, one of them had to be sedated usually. This time I had the vet do him, he didn't use the gag, he did him without sedation and I was very impressed. He said the horse's teeth met well and there were no sharp edges, so not to go bananas with them, whereas the EDT used to take loads off and wanted to see them every nine months. I mentioned that to the vet, who said "well one of us makes a living out of teeth alone, one of us doesn't..." He said he thinks a lot of EDTs do far more than is needed. Got me thinking a bit!
 
Personally I'd have them removed as they are very shallow rooted so can be agaric attend really easily.

I doubt if it's any harder to remove them now or when he was young. They are still the same size and depth of root.

I'd get a proper Equine Dentist to do them, I have no faith in vets doing them.
 
my filly who will be four in two weeks has four wolf teeth. my edt was out recently and suggested i see if they affect her and it would also partially depend on how much work she does, but suggested leaving them at least for now.
 
My rising 3yo has wolf teeth. Vet advised to see if they bother him once he's been ridden away. His are on the bottom and tight against his teeth. I suspect I'll get them removed when I turn him away.
 
My 5 year old has just had her wolf tooth out, she only had the 1 so chances are she won't get the other 1

It was just coming through as when she had them done about 9 months ago so they said see how she was & she seemed to be ok but I've had so much trouble with wolf teeth previously that I wanted it out as soon as it was fully grown

I can really tell the difference even though she wasn't having any adverse reactions to it I can definately tell now its gone !

I'd always have them out & tbh would never let a vet near my horses teeth ! a good EDT should be able to remove without sedation :)
 
If the wolf teeth are only at the top and are up against the cheek teeth they shouldn't really affect the bit. If they were on the lower jaw it would be a different matter.
 
I have just had my Dale's youngster's wolf teeth removed. The EDT advised they would need doing before he was bitted due to the size of them and position. EDT's can remove them, but the vet has to of course sedate. I got my vet to remove them as it seemed logical - she is an experienced dentist in any case. It wasn't expensive I think £30 for sedation and £40 for removal. I will now have all of mine sedated for dentistry - it means that the dentist can do a thorough job with no distress caused to my horses. Personally if you were advised they should come out I would have them out - why leave the horse in bitting discomfort for the sake of less than £100?
 
Thanks for all the replies, I had no idea so many had replied :o

Had the wolf teeth out today, they are probably about 5mm tall, but the roots are about 3x that length. I think the issue with wolf teeth is that they move so can be painful. Vet said to give him the weekend off so we will see why he's like after that, vet isn't convinced it's going to make any difference, but agreed that if you don't do it, you don't know! Hopefully riding will be more comfortable for him now, regardless of whether it means I get better marks etc :)
 
My girl has had a wolf tooth removed a couple of months back (shes rising 9) our previous vet was generally quite laid back about these things and said when he pressed them they didnt cause any pain. However we did very occasionally have the odd freak out/head in the air/bogging off on the right rein. Shes recently spent the past 12 months rehabbing from an injury and was still doing it so we had them removed in a kind of 'process of elimination thing ie I wanted to be sure it wasnt because of her leg she was doing this.

I have to say the difference is quite profound and we have had no more of the right rein bogging off thing going on. The vet also commented when he removed the wolf tooth that although it didnt look huge from the outside that under the gum was pretty massive - it took him almost 30mins to take out!

All in all it cost £100 and resulted in 10 days off with fabulous results. Well worth it I would say x
 
Ooh, that's interesting, thanks :)

It wasn't massive under the gum but a lot bigger than the tooth, did you just have one or two removed? Fingers crossed by next week he's happier, and who knows forward going and accepting of the bit! He is a sensitive one to pain, so it might be making him unhappy, if it makes a great difference I'll be glad I had it done, but feel guilty I didn't have it done 10 years ago :o
 
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I see you have now removed the teeth, but just wanted to say that we have had wolf teeth removed in a 4 year old and a 14 year old, by an EDT without sedation, no sooner had she asked if we wanted them removed and they were out-both very simple, uncomplicated procedures-took about 1 minute, bled slightly, two days off bitted riding and then back to normal- all part of the £35 charge for a dental.
 
Tnavas said:
I'd get a proper Equine Dentist to do them, I have no faith in vets doing them.
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I will never let an EDT near my horses, after a friend of mine had to pts her very useful SJ Stallion after a EDT did an awful awful job on his teeth resulting in a massive infection, which lead to his death
 
The Polo Bear said:
I will never let an EDT near my horses, after a friend of mine had to pts her very useful SJ Stallion after a EDT did an awful awful job on his teeth resulting in a massive infection, which lead to his death
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That's very sad but from experience I've had several vets do an appalling job on my horses teeth and EDT's always do a good job.

Vets just don't get enough experience of doing teeth, after all you wouldn't ask you GP to remove your tonsils or appendix, you'd go to a surgeon.
 
My vet goes to all the dental seminars etc and I wouldn't use anyone but him, his wife and his son for anything for my horses or dogs. (wife is a small animal vet)
 
The Polo Bear said:
My vet goes to all the dental seminars etc and I wouldn't use anyone but him, his wife and his son for anything for my horses or dogs. (wife is a small animal vet)
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Going to seminars doesn't mean much unless the knowledge is put straight into practise. I trusted my own vet who I have great respect for to do my horses teeth she failed to notice the dental irregularity that my mare has, one of her lower teeth is wider than it should be and failed to remove the sharp outer edge. The vet did what she had been taught, outer edges are sharp on top, inner edges are sharp on the bottom. She failed to LOOK at the teeth. My poor mare suffered a further six months before the EDT saw her. Another refused to remove wolf teeth, I eventually had them removed by a EDT. Another had a feeding problem, identified by the vet at great expense that there was something wrong with his throat, teeth were fine. Eventually a few years later EDT found a hook on the lower back molars growing into the roof of the horses mouth, took nearly two hours to remove the hooks. EDT reckoned they were several years old. After this work horse had absolutely no problem eating
 
pondering this with two of mine, but aged four and five.
an edt can certainly legally remove teeth, but cannot sedate if it is needed.
 
The Polo Bear said:
I will never let an EDT near my horses, after a friend of mine had to pts her very useful SJ Stallion after a EDT did an awful awful job on his teeth resulting in a massive infection, which lead to his death
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:( :( snap, my boy was PTS in February following a massive infection that wouldnt respond to treatment. The respected fully qualified EDT seen him in the October, his problems started in the November. Of course I cant prove the EDT was to blame but seems very coincidental seeing though he was fine before hand. My vet had looked after his teeth since he was a 4 yr old, he was nearly 15 when he was PTS. I decided to use an EDT after reading loads about how much better they are etc etc. I thought I was doing the best for my boy but never ever again would I use one. Vet for me.
Sorry for going 'off on one' but if my horse had no issues with the wolf teeth I would leave well alone.
 
I work in surgery (human!) and the way I look at it is this..... I would rather someone looks at my horses teeth who has gone through proper examinations certified by a veterinary board rather than somone who has undergone a short course in dentistry and who is unable to prescribe and administer medications relating to it....The best thing is to phone your veterinary practice and ask which vet mostly deals with/ or has an interest in dental issues.


I liken it to the views I have on cosmetic surgery (especially 'harley street' clinics) fair enough you can do a short course on cosmetic breast surgery and call yourself a breast surgeon....doesnt mean you have any kind of real 'experience' of it though. For anyon thinking of having anything like this done btw you would be far better investigating treatments offered by your local private hospital rather than any harley street adverts in the back of Hello or Closer ;)
 
georgiegirl said:
I work in surgery (human!) and the way I look at it is this..... I would rather someone looks at my horses teeth who has gone through proper examinations certified by a veterinary board rather than somone who has undergone a short course in dentistry and who is unable to prescribe and administer medications relating to it....The best thing is to phone your veterinary practice and ask which vet mostly deals with/ or has an interest in dental issues.
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Sorry but properly qualified EDTs will have done a lot more than a short course and will have undertaken proper examinations. BAEDT members will have undergone a rigorous examinations approved by BEVA and BVDA. Before they can sit the exams they will have completed a portfolio of 300 dental cases including a minimum of 40 advanced cases signed by a vet and references from a qualified EDT and a vet who is actively involved in dentistry. Admitedly they can't administer drugs but many EDTs have a good working relationship with vets and the two work hand in hand acknowledging the individual areas of expertise. It has to be remembered that not every horse owner has access to specialist equine vets and a lot of vets will not routinely carry out dentistry - in fact I'm aware of some vets referring to an EDT on occassions.
 
Legally an EDT cannot remove teeth without a vet present afaik. The dentist said he could pop them out no problem, but that it wasn't legal. My vet is perfectly competen to do this so sedated him, popped them out then my horse had a nap in the stable before I turned him out an hour later. I'll obviously be looking out to make sure nothing crops up, but our vet we've had for over 20 years for all kinds of horses and problems, the EDT has only visited twice.
 
Im not completely knocking them nor saying every vet is the be all and end all of doing teeth! I myself have moved from a fairly blase vet dentistry wise to one who was a little more proactive and have really reaped the results (see my earlier post)

Im merely speaking from experience in my own practice and giving people the other side of the argument that often gets rolled out in these posts ie the ones that say 'you wouldnt get a gp to do your teeth....'

In reality you wouldnt get a 'dentist' to do major work to your teeth....you would be referred to a maxillo facial surgeon hence my recommendation of finding a vet with a special interest/qualifications in dentistry.....

the following article may give people a better idea of the qualifications people have and the training in order to make a more informed decision...

http://e-venting.co.uk/2014/03/teeth-vet-or-edt/
 
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stencilface said:
Legally an EDT cannot remove teeth without a vet present afaik. The dentist said he could pop them out no problem, but that it wasn't legal. My vet is perfectly competen to do this so sedated him, popped them out then my horse had a nap in the stable before I turned him out an hour later. I'll obviously be looking out to make sure nothing crops up, but our vet we've had for over 20 years for all kinds of horses and problems, the EDT has only visited twice.
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It's good you have a vet who is competent with dentistry and, at the end of the day, owners need to have faith in whoever they choose to use.

Just to clarify the removal of erupted, non displaced wolf teeth is a category two procedure deemed to be in the remit of EDTs who have a DEFRA approved qualification.
 
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