Wolf teeth, retained caps or other dental problems

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flintfootfilly

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Going on from my thread about threatening behaviour on the yard and in the arena, I'm still looking for possible causes.

Filly is rising 4.

Just wondering what behaviour people have seen with horses who have pain from wolf teeth, retained caps or other dental problems.

My girl had her teeth checked and floated in early November. She has wolf teeth, which we were going to aim to remove at her next dental check (usually annually), and she had a cap which came away while the EDT was here.

She isn't started under saddle yet, but does do some groundwork in a halter or bridle, though I've not used the bridle for a little while.

Can teeth problems make a horse generally grouchy and defensive about being touched almost anywhere on their body?

Can they make a horse move in a very uncomfortable looking way, head tossing dramatically up and down, and hanging back from moving forward properly, bucking and leaping in the air?

Grateful for any thoughts. Though I'm guessing I'll probably have either vet or EDT take another look and remove the wolf teeth anyway, so that if nothing else we can eliminate them from the list of possible causes of this behaviour.

Thanks.

Sarah
 
Well, I'll ask someone who might know more than me but I do know that some horses CAN carry on in ridden work in spite of quite serious tooth issues which may even prevent proper chewing!

Low grade discomfort is less likely to cause violent reactions than acute nerve pain, so I'd be thinking more towards that. Anyway, a really good EDT would be my first point of contact to establish what the source of the reaction is (if it IS dental pain) and if they can carry out the necessary treatment, I'd let them.
 
A lot of people on here might think this reply is nonsense etc but my filly, same age as yours, used to behave in the same way. A friend's mum came and did a series of reiki sessions on her. She felt that my girl had headaches which she thought might have originated from an accident where stable door got caught on head collar (I know, one and only time i ever left it on) and she got trapped underneath. She was also like it just before dentist came out and took out four loose caps, so I would say depending on how sensitive your filly is to anything, it could be dental pain. My tb is ridiculously sensitive to everything (mud fever will have her hopping) so if yours is of a similar nature it could be?? She loves the reiki, by the way, would recommend it even tho my OH calls it tantric donkey wrenching!!:D
 
The 5yo I broke this year had her teeth done in April and had wolf teeth but as she was going well we left them. She then had 2 weeks off in Sept as i went away and when I started riding her again she had no steering, didnt want to go forwards and reared:eek:

Got the vet to remove her teeth and gave her 2 weeks then rode her in a headcollar for 2 weeks. She is ok now and has her teeth done every 6 months.Would recommend you get them removed. Hope this helps.:)
 
Many thanks for your replies. Open to all ideas really.

The mention of reiki can raise strong opinions, for or against. Must admit, I am a total believer in it, and the power of positive thought and intent generally. I guess scientifically it's a bit similar to the well known "placebo effect" whereby people feel better knowing that they are taking some kind of medicine which they believe should be helping them.

I've had a couple of interesting times in the stable with my girl today. She's not eating as much hay as the rest of the gang, but still eating plenty. However she's choosing to walk away from her haynet outside on the yard, and go and stand in her stable. I've gone in and joined her and just stood by the window. She's come and joined me, and stood right by me and let me pop my hand on her forehead. She does switch between snarly faces and a lovely soft look though. Then she starts pawing the ground. She's really trying to tell me something.

I've also noticed that she leaves her haynet more often than the rest of the gang, to go and have a few slurps from the water trough.

I'm starting to think that the grumpiness really may be related to dental stuff and I'll keep a good eye on her over the next few days til it's reasonable to ring my EDT. Whether that will also account for her snarliness when asked to move in the arena, I don't know.

Thanks again.

Sarah
 
I've encountered one horse with woolf teeth and she was a devil to ride - understandably - she bronced and took off and no steering etc.
She had wolf teeth extracted and was a absolute angel.

I had wolf teeth removed from my youngster so that they can't cause issues further down the line (and I believe I read somewhere they're easier to remove when the horse is around 3/4 as in the more mature horse the root is bigger?) Not sure if I made that up though.

Good luck with her x

PS - I don't believe Reiki is nonsense, personally. I used it on a horse with sweet itch and horse's head would be bleeding, she'd squeal at you if you went to touch her, she'd kick when you went near and she'd bite.
I wasn't particularly confident with her but I used reiki on her head and along her back. She stopped squealing as much, her sores were 10x better, her biting/kicking were reduced (this was in summer). She was a generally more settled pony - and others commented on it.
 
My well behaved old pony had serious dental problems and showed no behavioural changes. She normally does when something is wrong usually by going quiet and standing near me . Suggest you get the vet to check her generally as well as considering teeth
 
She shouldn't have any molar caps but the corner inscisor caps should still be there. Retained caps can cause pain and irritation (or imperfect permanent teeth if caps are lost too early). Wolf teeth are just a damned nuisance and need removing!

This could be causing the behavioural problems you are seeing, as could any number of medical matters. Get the EDT to do another dental check and a vet out, too.

Do the Reiki as well, if you must, but not instead of the above!
 
Thanks for your replies. Much appreciated.

Here is the link to my original post, which contains full details:
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=504134

My vet has diagnosed "defiance" and says she needs more turnout. He has not come up with any suggestions other than that.

I keep listening to my pony and she is clearly in discomfort and trying to tell me something. So I asked the vet to carry out various procedures:
- scope for ulcers: negative
- rectal while she was still under sedation in case there were any palpable abnormalities in gut and/or ovaries: negative
- scanned ovaries: normal size and appearance

Vet next due to another of the gang this Friday, so had arranged to have a blood taken then in case that showed anything. However, at the moment I'm thinking if I can arrange for someone to look at teeth first, I think I'll delay on bloods.

Oh, and I guess I mean premolars rather than molars, don't I? "Big teeth" anyway!

Thanks again.

Sarah
 
Looking at your vids the head flapping seems to be her version of weaving. She looks utterly and totally fed up with life. As you own all the horses on the yard have you tried letting her spend the day with a friend? Giving her ad lib hay, rather than 2% of her bodyweight. Is she better in the summer?
 
Just a quick update. Had EDT and vet to sedate this morning.

She had a retained cap on a premolar. It's now been removed, so it's just a matter of time to see whether that fully accounts for her recent behaviour. Hoping it does!

Oh, by the way Dieseldog, she used to share a pen with one of the others. I'm really keen on the "social" side of being a horse. Then over the last few weeks, I'd seen their dominance games escalate so she was being trapped in the stable. I split them up, and popped her on a larger yard with a very submissive pony. Next thing, she'd got a kick to her leg! So I've had to separate her from any companiion on the yard. They can still "speak" through a window, and they still have the run of a track and arena together for turnout, but just not on the yard at the moment.

Sarah
 
If its of any help I had something similar with my 5yr gelding who retained a cap on his corner incisor. The vets and EDT had missed it twice despite the fact I'd said it didn't look right it the vet said oh it's fine leave it :confused:
The consequence of which was that over the next few months the cap sunk into the gum and then got wedged between the new corner insisor and the tooth that should have been next to it... :rolleyes:
My gelding had significant head tossing under saddle but never with just being freeschooled or lunged. I'm pleased to say since the tooth was sorted the head toss has gone. :D

Hopefully this will help to resolve the head tossing issue now your pony has had the cap removed. I guess it may happen again as more come off.
 
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