Wondering if anyone elses local shows are a bit biased?

[Puppy]

We're gonna be £12 a class at our local showng show - is this expensive?

Just a bit!! I would only pay half that!!

 

[Dolcé]

the brothers of our ponies were at our last local show, county standard yearling colts. Admittedly they were not shown the best they could be as their handlers were obviously inexperienced with welshies but they were both beaten in 2 classes by inferior FAT ponies. I was furious on their behalf and if I had been paying the entry fees I would have objected - I though fat ponies were supposed to be getting thrown out of the ring!

 

[brighteyes]

Hence why me and my welsh cob now do dressage!! I am fed up of being told he doesn't have enough condition - I keep his weight sensible, I want him to last for more than just a couple of years - and isn't on the bridle - he is, just not overbent???? I also do alot of hacking out so he's quite altheletic for his type, yet the judges seem to think he is thin...

Good for you - the horrors of local showing give me nightmares. I commend you for sticking to your very sensible guns.

 

[brighteyes]

1) Perhaps the lady who won everytime had the best pony? Perhaps you could have congratulated her and learned from her rather than show such sour grapes at not winning.

2) How did your welsh pony look compared to them? Was she as well turned out? If they were produced ponies, they probably went beautifully - did yours? Just how obese were they, or were they just in better condition than yours?

3) A 2 year old? In the first ridden? That's good going! If it's true and the 2 year old did a good show then I'd have had her first too, shows a true first ridden pony! Maybe the 2 year old was on the best pony?

4) Judges all like different types and are entitled to their opinion - if the judge didn't like arabs then they didn't like arabs. I know of a few who hate them. It's an opinion based sport afterall.

Oh, come on! That's not a sour grapes post - it's what goes on all over. Pot/Trophy hunters, obese ponies and ponies with glaringly obvious confo faults, atrocious riding and bad sportsmanship. Why can't people see it and admit it?

I don't mind being placed lower than anyone who beats me fair and square, but I am continually and genuinely shocked at the level of 'corruption' and lows to which people will stoop to win rosettes.

I'm joining in this thread but I long since opted out of riding club cheat-fests!

 

[Umbongo]

Oh, come on! That's not a sour grapes post - it's what goes on all over. Pot/Trophy hunters, obese ponies and ponies with glaringly obvious confo faults, atrocious riding and bad sportsmanship. Why can't people see it and admit it?

I don't mind being placed lower than anyone who beats me fair and square, but I am continually and genuinely shocked at the level of 'corruption' and lows to which people will stoop to win rosettes.

I'm joining in this thread but I long since opted out of riding club cheat-fests!

Haha...THANKYOU!!! This is what I'm trying to get at!

 

[teagreen]

Brighteyes - you are a VERY bitter, jealous and rude person. I have no desire to reply to your threads because you are so exceptionally snappy. It stinks of bitterness, and it is glaringly obvious for all other forum members to see (believe me!)

 

[charlimouse]

Brighteyes - you are a VERY bitter, jealous and rude person. I have no desire to reply to your threads because you are so exceptionally snappy. It stinks of bitterness, and it is glaringly obvious for all other forum members to see (believe me!)

I really can't see the bitterness/jealousness/rudeness in Brighteyes posts at all.

 

[Umbongo]

"4) Judges all like different types and are entitled to their opinion - if the judge didn't like arabs then they didn't like arabs. I know of a few who hate them. It's an opinion based sport afterall."


I can understand the judges having an opinion based on what is right for the horses breed and type. In mixed breed class the horses should be judged on whether they are correct for their breed, not because the judge prefers a certain breed because she used to have one as a child, or the judge thinks arabs are too dishy, or thinks that this breed is cuter etc....if it is true to it's type then it is true to it's type, and should not be dumped into last place just because the judge hates a particular breed or colour.

 

[Umbongo]

double posted

 

[SmallHunter]

I'd better give all these back then because me and my donkey obviously won them because we knew the judge or maybe the judge was blind or maybe they didn't know one end of my horse from the other and thought her arse was her face.

 

[Umbongo]

I'd better give all these back then because me and my donkey obviously won them because we knew the judge or maybe the judge was blind or maybe they didn't know one end of my horse from the other and thought her arse was her face.

Alright no need to get arsey
You have obviously done very well, have a good horse and probably fair judges.
All I am saying is that a lot of small shows I visit are not so. This is not a debate on showing, as people have stated here it can happen in their showjumping classes, dressage, even gymkhanas etc.

If you haven't witnessed the same old showjumping family winning every class no matter how small the fences, or the judge that admits they can't upset children, then don't post.

 

[SmallHunter]

But the problem is by saying that the judge doesn't know what there doing you are basically saying those who have won or done well don't really deserve too.
Do you know what its like to stand outside the ring after winning a class and hear people slagging off the judge because they didn't win? Do you have any idea how upsetting that can be? but if I turned round to them and said well perhaps if you were turned out correctly or actually washed your horse or possibly schooled it so it doesn't try to cart you off at every moment I'd get jumped on.
I'm not arsey believe me I'm defending the fact that perhaps just perhaps the judge did know what they were doing and the other competitors where better on the day.

 

[SmallHunter]

Alright no need to get arsey
You have obviously done very well, have a good horse and probably fair judges.
All I am saying is that a lot of small shows I visit are not so. This is not a debate on showing, as people have stated here it can happen in their showjumping classes, dressage, even gymkhanas etc.

If you haven't witnessed the same old showjumping family winning every class no matter how small the fences, or the judge that admits they can't upset children, then don't post.

Trust me I've met prejudice in showing I ride an Appaloosa in Hunter classes 30 years ago people didn't want Appaloosa's at shows at all, so I know all about bias but my point is you just get on with it you don't winge and moan you keep going and keep improving until one day people turn round and say hang on a minute there actually quite good. Don't blame everyone else look at yourself and say what can I do to make myself better to improve ME.

 

[Umbongo]

I agree, and I have no problems with horses that do deserve to win. Horses that have done well, are well turned out and the owners are very deserving. Some people, I agree, cannot see that and are just jealous. I can see when a horse is not deserving of winning. I am not bias to anyone as I do not ride in shows and I often just go to watch so not actually watching anyone I knew. I am only having a go at judges that won't let someone get a chance of glory, and noted for all their hard work, just because of it's breed, colour or even sex, no matter how amazing it is, how good the rider is etc.

You are obviously quite lucky in that you have been to some fair shows. I live in a small village and everyone is quite cliquey (sp?). As I say I do not ride in them, only observing. And I can see whether it is the rider or the judge. Especially when some judges actually come up to you after and apologise, saying that your horse should have won but they couldn't upset the other person!!!!!!!!! Surely that is wrong!

 

[RuthnMeg]

My late grandmother was a top judge in her day, and if she were seeing what goes on today, Iam sure she would be turning in her grave! It IS truely shocking (on a general basis). I have seen too many shocking results, (some mine!! and others not so,) to mention on here now.
What I can't understand is why the local shows seem to have lost the fun factor and gained a competitive aura? Kids need to learn how to lose, and the level playing field needs to be SEEN - FULL STOP.
Trouble is, I blame the 'elf & f'ing safety much of the time, it has seriously eliminated fun, and where the fun factor has gone, prices and competition has risen.
We all really enjoyed shows 'back in my day' (I don't think iam THAT old?), I know I didn't win much - thats what the gymkanna races were for - to boost your rossettes haul!! I don't think many are allowed now???

 

[humblepie]

A few years back when I was doing local showing with my old horse we used to go to RC shows out of our immediate area where no one would know us and he used to do really well. He probably was a bit fat (grass and grass alone kept him like that even though he was TB) and did have excellent conformation. I used to enjoy going out of our area a bit simply to "compare" him against different competition as if you stay in your immediate area you are always competing against the same people. That said, there will always be the occasional bit of decidely odd judging at any level but you have to take the rough with the smooth and be grateful for the smooth.

 

[Puppy]

Brighteyes - you are a VERY bitter, jealous and rude person. I have no desire to reply to your threads because you are so exceptionally snappy. It stinks of bitterness, and it is glaringly obvious for all other forum members to see (believe me!)

What a load of rubbish

 

[PurplePickle]

urgh cant read all the replies itll wind me up, our shows are so one sided its disgusting. Unless your in the clque you dont win, Ive seen arabs win mountain and moorland!

 

[Minxie]

I'm not going for a fun day out to clean up, I'm taking him for an educational experience. I pay my entry fee, I don't always win because his behaviour often lets him down, and I couldn't give a scooby about the sad people who grumble about us. There are very very few quiet, no pressure shows for 'pro' show horses, so where else are we supposed to take them? I don't agree with people who take their good horses to tiny events purely to clean up, but so many of them are out for a reason other than to win.

I completely understand what your saying but to be honest what i see if people who turn out every single week with horses that are well out of the class they are entered in competing with those starting out who are genuinely in the prelim classes. They are not doing this for experience, they really aren't.

You obviously have a horse which can be a bit hit or miss which is totally fine - but these are genuinely people who i feel are going into smaller classes purely with the view to 'clean up'. I guess they would rather go in with a relatively sure chance of winning against beginners rather than risk being beaten by horses / riders of equal ability.

 

[merlins-mum]

At our local show the in-hand veteran's class gets won each time by a staggeringly beautiful stallion. The old guy who shows him wheels him out, he wins first prize and then gets wheeled back for the next show.
The horse *is* OMG gorgeous - but it is professional quality and no-one else ever gets a look in. How many local-show-red-rosettes does one horse actually need!

 

[Laura2408]

I have started showing my purebred locally and have found it all very biased!

Luckily we only show for the fun and to get him used to new things and arnt dissapointed when he is placed last as the judge dosent like arab movement At the last local show we were at it was based at a riding school, where the 3 liveries came first, second and third, and then everyone else. Infact she didnt even watch us trot up as I was watching her and she was chatting to someone else. Fortunatley horse behaved well and I was happy he got a rosette at all (we got 5th, behind a lady in a hi viz bomber jacket lol)

I have also been told he needs more weight when he is currently doing endurance, learning XC and dressage and also is hunting this season, and certainly dosent need to be rippling when he walks (yes I do like to like to mix my disclipine and want to have a go at everything, horse loves the variety!) The vet actually said he is a perfect weight last week when he was vaccinated!

On the other hand I have met some nice people who all have offered advice, its a shame the judges wernt so friendly though (although one did say "Lovely horse, shame he is so spirited" lol)

 

[lexibell]

OMG I feel a rant coming on...

Last summer I got told my horse 'wasnt what the judge was looking for' and I should 'try a different class'

This is said horse (not at the same show - we went double clear jumping the day this was taken )

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=643614650&v=photos#!/photo.php?pid=1639550&id=643614650

The class was - ridden cob!! where would my horse have been better suited to?? ROR perhaps??? come on!!

Judge is apparently a YO and trainer, and guess what ?? top 3 made up by his liveries, who are also his pupils.

I was entered in another class he was judging, I withdrew got my money back!!

 

[Enfys]

It would appear that none of you moaners on here have actually ever helped to organise and / or run a show? If you got off your backsides and put yourselves on the other side of the fence and found out how much effort is needed to put on a show, try to find people to judge, steward, score, do parking, put up poles, run refreshments, do secretary, do announcements and all the other myriad jobs you might have a different view and be just as fed up as I am to hear "It's not fair" all the time. If you actually bothered to have some input you might be able to influence the choice of judge to one who, in your opinion, is not biased.

.

Well said.

Our local PC held several shows each year. If a Judge seemed biased or was getting a lot of complaints (like the one who made entrants give an individual show in Tack and Turnout) then they were thanked at the end of the day but not asked back.

We held qualifiers for various things, it bought in the punters, and if a County Standard pony won the LR, or whatever, then that was because it was the best there on the day. On the other hand, as Secretary I have dealt with lots of complaints from owners of show ponies who were placed down the line because the little sods bucked and the PC pony (who would not have got a look in at the County Show) was better for the job on the day.

I have no idea what entry fees are nowadays but I certainly wouldn't be paying 12 pounds a class.

I do know what rosettes cost though and if competitors would be happy with a simple one or two tiered round rosette instead of the confections of today then fees could be lowered. I know for a fact that if there are two conflicting shows, and one has prettier rosettes than the other then some pot hunters will go for the pretty rosette, I've been told plenty of times "We come here because the rosettes are so pretty"

 

[madalicedj]

oh dear
i have just bought my 1st horse after years of longing (i grew up with ponies on our farm) Anyway was v excited to enter shows this summer for the experiance but i fear they are biast. I would struggal to place anywhere but it almost seems pointless and takes away any enjoyment if only the pre arranged glory hunters get placed by their chum judges and yes i know it happens
Still I will go for the fun and hope its not snubbed out. Thats if i dont have to return him due to poss problems

 

[teagreen]

oh dear
i have just bought my 1st horse after years of longing (i grew up with ponies on our farm) Anyway was v excited to enter shows this summer for the experiance but i fear they are biast. I would struggal to place anywhere but it almost seems pointless and takes away any enjoyment if only the pre arranged glory hunters get placed by their chum judges and yes i know it happens
Still I will go for the fun and hope its not snubbed out. Thats if i dont have to return him due to poss problems

Please, PLEASE don't be put off showing by what the people on this thread say. Whilst bad judging does go on, it is not as widespread as this thread makes out and many of the people commenting are, I'm afraid, just jealous and bitter that they didn't win.

Ensure you do your preparation before you go and go with a positive mental attitude - it is supposed to be a fun day out for you and your horse, your chance to show him to the public so go out with a smile on your face and no matter what, you'll be taking home your best friend at the end of the day

 

[ceiron]

haha at tea green, its all rose tinted when your in the know eh

i am lucky i get to see shows all over as an entrant, helper or some capacity and there is a lot of bias.

i know people who choose classes solely on judge because they know they will do well under them.

whats the point in that?

the judge should be unbiased and choose best to class standard, not who he recognises or may have had a hand in breeding.

i have to say our main local show is very good in most times although still fall foul of bias.

i guess you cant stamp it out entirely.

county quality going to local shows is not on though, yes your horse may need experience but you should go in hc? is it they do in dressage.

good example to local showers but not making them feel bad.

as for cost, our local show is around 12 pound a class, quite normal in this area, it costs to get good quality judges, prizes and stuff.

3 pound for a clear round is a bargain in my view.

 

[teagreen]

haha at tea green, its all rose tinted when your in the know eh

i am lucky i get to see shows all over as an entrant, helper or some capacity and there is a lot of bias.

i know people who choose classes solely on judge because they know they will do well under them.

whats the point in that?

the judge should be unbiased and choose best to class standard, not who he recognises or may have had a hand in breeding.

i have to say our main local show is very good in most times although still fall foul of bias.

i guess you cant stamp it out entirely.

county quality going to local shows is not on though, yes your horse may need experience but you should go in hc? is it they do in dressage.

good example to local showers but not making them feel bad.

as for cost, our local show is around 12 pound a class, quite normal in this area, it costs to get good quality judges, prizes and stuff.

3 pound for a clear round is a bargain in my view.

I'm not sure what you mean by your first statement - I'm not trying to rose tint things, I'm trying to say to the person above me that you should go out and enjoy your horse and not be put off by what people say in this thread. To someone who doesn't know showing at all, this thread makes it seem like every show is corrupt and there isnt much point in entering because you won't win unless you know the judge/the judge bred your horse/ the judge once had tea with your friends sisters dogs owners helper. I don't want people put off this excellent sport by loud yet ignorant statements. And no, I don't think think everyone's statements are wrong, before someone has a go at me.

I know it's not what you mean, but I choose my judges very carefully - I know those who won't like my horses and those that do. Therefore I see no point in paying £20 to enter a show where I know the judge doesn't like my type. I make no apology for choosing my judges carefully then going out and winning under them every time.

If you are taking a county standard horse out locally for experience then why should you go HC? You pay your entry fee and are perfectly entitled to go to that show. The judge has to judge what is put in front of them, so if you present a horse 10x better than anything else in that class, the judge HAS to have it to win - it's not the judges fault, they can't put it last because they don't think the owners should be showing at that show. It is the same even if you are simply pothunting - the judge has to put the best horse first. However, you ought to feel guilty if you are pothunting, that's the owners fault, not the judges.

 

[Cobbysmum]

I ran one local show for a number of years, holding a number of affiliated classes but with the majority being unaffiliated. In the case of hiring judges, I always tried to hire judges from 'out of town', having shown horses and ponies extensively in the past I know what it's like to experience favouritism over ability, although the converse can also be true from fair judges. I had to hire affiliated judges for the relevant classes but also used those judges for the unaffiliated classes too. Judges are relatively cheap for the amount of work and expertise they bring to shows but this does not mean they are cheap to the shows. We used to take around £2,000 over the day in £5 entry fees, often with the same people entering four or five classes - we used to have several classes which small children could enter, eg bonny pony etc. We never made a profit and the venue was free. By the time you have added up judges, stewards, lunches, first aid, help, hire of jumps, rosettes, prize money and affiliation fees you have no money left at the end of the day. I had to battle with the committee every year to hold the horse part of the show, they always wanted some other attractions which would bring in more crowds. It was an annual show which used to take me the best part of a year to organise, sorting out advertising, attending local shows to drop off schedules, booking judges, organising help, usually using long suffering family members to take entry fees on the day, pick up poles etc. and I got and expected nothing for doing it. It became too much of a battle with the committee in the end, so I gave it up but am now involved with another local show and am still giving up my time over the year and up to and on the day for free, because I think if people do not get off their backsides and help then all these local shows will disappear. We still do not make a profit but what makes it worthwhile for me is at the end of a long day, someone comes up and says thank you. That's why I sign up for the next year.

 

[Swift08]

There is only one i can think of that is bad. The showing is always won by the the club and school members no matter how bad they are! The showjumping is a bit better but rules can get magically changed so that only the club/school member can win (once changed half way through a class!). Most people know about it so people tend to keep away as there are plenty of great ones in the area

 

[YorksG]

As another idiot who helps to organise local shows, mainly RC but also steward at one fairly big local agricultural show, where a lot of classes are BSPS (is that now poniesUK?) can I make a plea to all those who are complaining on this thread, please remember the hours of volunteer time that is given up for you to enjoy your day. At the biggest of the RC shows, it takes the whole committee and a fair few other members, the whole of the day before the show to set up, the day of the show the same people do the entries, steard the rings etc. etc. and then at the end of the day pack everything up and take it back to storage. We do this so that people like you can compete, have a good day out and hopefully spend fun time with your friends and your horse. The things that make it worthwhile, are seeing people having fun, people proud of their rosettes and proud of their horses. The occasional thank you is a huge bonus. What gets my goat are the people who complain about everything, from the judging to the size of the rings, who speak to the helpers as if they were less than the dirt on their shoes and never ever help to do a thing!