Won't Go Forward/Not Motivated

I did not say I wouldn't try the supplement....in fact I ordered some from my local health shop on Friday as they did not have in stock. It is inexpensive so no point in not trying it.

I did an Eric Winter clinic on the weekend and he also put it down to being a baby horse who just needs to learn that his job is not a riding school plod. We did have a few moments of brilliance at the clinic where I had Eric shouting slow down a little.

I am only stating what the professionals have told me.
 
So were the parents genetically tested for PSSM?
Also there are several mutations that can cause it and I think only one is testable currently which is where the muscle biopsy comes in.
It is a known issue in Warmbloods, I imagine some of those are fully registered!
It is worth being aware that not all professionals are au fait with everything.
 
'Breed variation exists in prevalence of PSSM – of the 572 horses identified with PSSM by McCue et al, 63 per cent were quarter horse-related breeds (Figure 3), 12 per cent draught breeds and nine per cent warmblood breeds (McCue et al, 2006). Estimates of prevalence reveal 54 per cent of draught, 52 per cent to 55 per cent of warmblood and 48 per cent of quarter horse bred horses may be affected (McCue et al, 2006; Hunt et al, 2008). In contrast, prevalence within Thoroughbreds and Arabians was five per cent and three per cent, respectively (McCue et al, 2006).'
 
sounds like he is sour.
I'd take him up the gallops, to the beach, to the forest, and I wouldn't school him much. If I did, it would be not worrying about outline, just doing walk to canter lots!
He's 4, he's probably growing, and if he's had a year of schooilng already probably over worked
 
SusieT said:
sounds like he is sour.
I'd take him up the gallops, to the beach, to the forest, and I wouldn't school him much. If I did, it would be not worrying about outline, just doing walk to canter lots!
He's 4, he's probably growing, and if he's had a year of schooilng already probably over worked
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He is only in the school once a week for my lesson...the rest is through the vineyards and up and down hills. We don't worry about outlines (although he has a natural frame). He is also not my first baby (but probably my most frustratingly rewarding one).
 
SusieT said:
have you actually had a vet check him for lameness?
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He was FULLY vetted 9 weeks ago. He is NOT LAME AT ALL. Not sore at all, there is nothing "physically" wrong with him. He has been treated, saddle checked, teeth done, and vet was out again last week for vaccinations and I asked him to check him again for me (as I am pedantic and wanted to rule out anything physical).
 
He sound like my Westphalian! ( only had him a few months).Sometimes I think I'm never going to get out of walk and canter seems a distant dream. Mine is better on a hack though. I know exactly what you mean about the leg muscles and my instructor is like yours and frustrated by him. I get so exhausted schooling him I reduced it to once a week but this is really addressing the problem but it just puts me off if neither of us are enjoying it. I have tried spurs but more recently I don't use them, squeezing often works but is so tiring. Double kick is good and also sort of almost sitting behind the movement and pushing rather than trying to drag him along behind me. We tried a performance food but he just went ridiculously spooky and am just about to start him on an iron supplement instead.
I really sympathise with you as it is such hard work and soul destroying.
 
ok - so you've had him 9 weeks? before which he was schooled for a year? Take him out galloping in fields/gallops/beach to freshen him and always ask for first respone to the aids. He still sounds like he is a baby - and big young babies are often slow!
 
So today we had a breakthrough! Yesterday we worked on our in hand for 15 minutes and today due to the time I arrived at the yard and lack of anyone to ride with I decided to do a bit of schooling for 20 minutes. He was a superstar. Forward. Keen. Barely had to ask with my leg and he only really needed a reminder when he napped a few times towards the gate. Seems like our gallops this weekend and over the past few weeks have started to help him. Tomorrow he gets amother nice long hack.
 
I'd put money on it simply being a lack of maturity. Big horses need to be brought on slowly. I'd drop him down a gear personally for the next six months and see how you get on from there.
 
ycbm said:
Do high oil or alcar, not both. The alcar was discovered when trying to sort out EPSM horses that can't take a high calorie diet.

Be aware that there is L carnetine and acetyl L carnetine. You need the alcar.

Let us know how you get on?

PS water consumption is a symptom because they sweat a lot with EPSM. But did your vet test for kidney function? Kidney disease is quite rare in horses but if his blood is full of urea he won't be full of energy.
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YCBM

what is the difference between L carnetine and acetyl L carnetine? This seems to be both? https://www.myprotein.com/sports-nutrition/100-l-carnitine-amino-acid/10529729.html the ingredients say - Acetyl L Carnitine (ALCAR) (100%)

In terms of high fat and Alcar, I normally feed copra and micronized linseed (but don't want to feed oil), my reading implies that it is okay to feed these fairly high oil feeds with Alcar?

Any idea if there is a link with increased peeing and EPSM?
 
ycbm said:
I think that's saying pretty much the same thing as I understood, but in different words. EPSM horses can't use carbs properly and store polysaccharides in the muscles. If you feed them fat and reduce the carbs to a minimum, they use the oil as muscle energy instead, so avoid the build up of polysaccharides. The alcar is a breakdown product of an amino acid that the EPSM horse can't produce. If given it, the horse can then use its food energy properly, though they still need high low sugar, but that just good feeding practice anyway.

That's where I got to. Anyone got better explanation? It's such a new disease, we are still learning.also, for me, definitely a spectrum disorder. I have two (out of two!), both caught early, both very mild, easy to manage and 'normal' on alcar. Without alcar one will barely move and the other runs around like a headless chicken :) and both go absolutely solid in the bum muscles.
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that better fits my understanding. And is why it is okay to feed some high fat to horses having Alcar, but of no treatment benefit. So okay to feed copra / micronsied linseed in moderate quantities.
 
Increased peeing is often equine metabolic syndrome - the body is trying to get rid of excess sugars in the bloodstream. With type 1 PSSM those sugars would be heading off to cause problems with the muscles. I don't think we know enough about the other glycogen storage disorders yet though to say how they work.

Alcar didn't work on either of my PSSM horses but some people have seen miraculous improvement with it. I don't think YCBM is correct with this statement "The alcar is a breakdown product of an amino acid that the EPSM horse can't produce" - or at least I've seen no sciency papers to that extent. My understanding is it should help them break down the sugars in the muscles so they can use them for energy, but jury is out on whether that is actually the case. Its cheap enough to try out in my opinion!
 
Your vet is making huge assumptions....I would definately consider this path as a cause of your horses' lethargy.
 
Don't discount ulcers. After learning that mine suffers with them, scoping is the first thing I would do. It's not expensive and at the very least, it's worth doing it just to tick it off the list of possibilities.
 
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