WORD OF WARNING!

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showingmadfilly

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Just a word of warning to anyone buying a converted horsebox. A relation very close to myself has just purchased a box which broke down within two journeys. On deeper inspection it has come back that the box has not done the 1,400 miles the clock reads and has in fact done a ridiculous 220,000 miles. It had failed on major issues during it's MOT's before it had been converted and was then clocked and converted into an equine 3.5!

Police will now be informed and all payments retracted but I felt others should take this word of warning and make sure they don't get bitten by bodge jobs.
 
showingmadfilly said:
Just a word of warning to anyone buying a converted horsebox. A relation very close to myself has just purchased a box which broke down within two journeys. On deeper inspection it has come back that the box has not done the 1,400 miles the clock reads and has in fact done a ridiculous 220,000 miles. It had failed on major issues during it's MOT's before it had been converted and was then clocked and converted into an equine 3.5!

Police will now be informed and all payments retracted but I felt others should take this word of warning and make sure they don't get bitten by bodge jobs.
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Word of advice - ALWAYS get a pre purchase check done - here in NZ AA do them as do our COF (MOT) testing station.

Recently a friend and I looked at a lovely box, ticked all the right boxes and she decided it was what she wanted - took it for a COF check - well what a surprise, two tyres were beginning to lose there tread (remoulds) the front tyre which I thought was suspect the wall was perished. Also had several other major faults including the diff being loose - would need replacing pretty soon. Truck went back, advised owner who then laughed it off! Truck sold the next day - hope the new owner doesn't get hurt.
 
The box was purchased from a friend who thought they had bought a brand new conversion from the box builders......... All checks should have been part of the purchase. It has since been found even the converters weren't aware.

(I will not enclose the converters information for as long as we think they weren't to blame)
 
I guess this must have been a very expensive horsebox as I would never expect to get a conversion with that little mileage on it. Most conversions have been used commercially before conversion and therefore will have a fair amount of mileage on them. Unless you are purchasing a new build or a vehicle that has been a horsebox since first registered I must admit 1400 miles would have alarm bells ringing for me. Also what is the reg, is 1400 miles "average" mileage for the plate????
 
Before I bought my box, I viewed lots of conversions. Two had been clocked, down from over 200k to 120k and 90k respectively. One was a back garden conversion the other from a 'reputable' company.

A word of advice - if you're buying ask the seller to provide you with the previous mot certificate number you can go online to the dvla website and it will bring up the mot history, including mileage for the last 5 years at least.
 
I agree with honetpot that anyone able to convert a vehicle surely knows enough about the underneath to think those 1400 miles must have been up and down a very bumpy mountain to show the wear and tear of 220,000!

Good tip on finding the MOT history, will certainly bear that in mind.
 
I had a very similar experience - OP may I ask which part of the country the box was bought from, as the converter of mine, which was also a 3.5t also said that he wasn't aware that it had been clocked. PM me if you prefer. I now know that it is his responsibility to check the mileage out - his excuse was that he didn't have broadband so it took his computer too long to load the info - I also found out by checking on www.motinfo.gov.uk. In fact the reason I found out was that shortly after buying the box, I got a letter from DVLA to say that the person who had bought the tax for the box had bounced the cheque. This started my suspicions going and I checked the website only to find that it had gone through the last MOT with about 200k on the clock and failed on numerous things, then gone through - AT THE SAME GARAGE, 3 days later and passed with 93k on the clock. I even contacted the garage who had supposedly done the MOT and the person I spoke to there, on a few occasions could not even find any record of that vehicle having been MOT'd there, so I don't know the full story of what happened there either.
The seller offered me an exchange but it took a long time, and in the intervening period it started leaking oil which I phoned to tell him about. He wasn't concerned, however on driving it back to him for exchange, it broke down on the motorway and I had to get recovery to tow it back to him. Whilst we were on way, I phoned to tell him what had happened and he said that he wasn't taking it back in that state. I told him in no uncertain terms that it was coming back and he had a choice of either refunding me the money, exchanging for another box, or I would see him in court. His choice.
When I got there he decided he didn't want trouble and exchanged it for the other box, which the mechanic who had recovered the faulty horsebox checked out for me and confirmed all ok.
There are some dodgy dealers out there and I wouldn't ever use this one again. It's actually one I've seen recommended on this forum as well as being good.....well that certainly wasn't my experience....
I had Trading Standards involved and informed the Police about the garage which I believe had clocked the vehicle - or at least knew that it had been clocked.
 
I was told it's extremely easy to take out the speedo/ mileage recorder in a lorry and swap it for another one - far easier than a car and therefore to largely ignore mileage when purchasing a lorry
If you look at wear and tear on the peddles, seat, general interior and the actual age of the box and realise that many are delivery vehicles so expect many many miles per year you'll get a better feel for age than mileage. I think one I bought had 500,000 + miles on the actual clock - clearly it hadn't done that but I got money off for taking away an clock that would have been useless on more naieve buyers.

I'm not sure I'd even rely on the MOT recorded mileage - whats to stop the dodgy plugging in a clock with say 10,000 more miles that the last MOT just for the day of the MOT then swapping it back to the right 50,000 miles a year one as soon as it gets home again.

Then again I never trust anyone these days !!!!!
 
Tinypony said:
My OH is a mechanic and he's just shrugged and said "Of course they knew it had been clocked".
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It is common sense! A realtively hard working lorry might do 100,000 miles a year (400 ish miles a day for five days a week) so benefit of the doubt and lets say the lorry was only 2 years old.
The buyers thought a delivery lorry had done only 700 miles in one year! How many cars even owned by old ladies who just pop to the shop now and again do only 700 miles a year?

People have to start using their common sense and not just rely on 'well the seller told me this so it must be true!'
 
This is why you need to take a non horsey mechanic with you.
All you can see is trips to shows and a nice new area for the horses and you can't see the glaringly obvious discrepancies in the number plate, mileage and condition of the base vehicle
 
If I remember well, you only need the V5 certificate and registration plate to check MOT history online and you get mileage at each MOT.
I was interested in a small horsebox with relatively low mileage for it's age (and it was a selling point of the ad). Got a scan of V5 and checked online, the lorry had been clocked (not by huge amounts but still). So I told the owner and she wasn't aware and even said said that previous seller had given her all the MOT reports and lorry had always passed. I believe she was genuine, she had all the reports except one where the lorry failed and was presented a few days later with a few tenth of thousands of miles removed. It saved a lot of time to check the MOT history online before I even went to see the lorry.
 
A friend of mine had exactly the same thing happen to her. She had the conversion done to her requirements by a specialist company and only found out it had been clocked when she came to sell it and the potential purchaser checked the details which my friend had willingly provided to her to allow her to do so not thinking anything more of it until the discrepancies came up. My friend had seen the vehicle prior to conversion and knew where it had come from as it had the name of the previous company to own it still on the side. She was able to contact them directly and they still had details for the vehicle and confirmed that it had 70,000 more miles on the clock when they sent it to auction than it did when my friend collected it from the conversion specialist and yes the conversion specialist had bought it directly from the auction so make of that what you will! This discrepancy was backed up by the MOTs which showed the very same. This was some time ago now back when being able to trace the MOT details online was very new (it wasn't possible when my friend had bought the van or she would have done it) and I believe the incident was reported to trading standards but the company are still trading.
 
Polos mum - this is exactly the point I was trying to make. It's funny how OP won't give details of the box now as perhaps they have realised it should have been obvious the mileage was false.
 
Horseboxes might do low mileage... Vans certainly don't!

Unfortunately, if I saw a van conversion offered with low mileage, I would be suspicious!

To the OP and HollyHocks...I'm on my phone atm so can't pm, but if you could pm me the name of the company you got your lorries from I'd be very appreciative. I'm having problems atm getting a deposit back for a horse that failed the vetting. The woman also has a horse box conversion company. My suspicion is she's dodgy all round.
 
Lol we've spent years telling her to get rid of it but she's too stubborn. She's an awful driver, 40-in-a-dead-straight-60 type. I hope she's a minority!

Told a friend that story, she told her bf who said she must have heard me wrong and that I couldn't possibly have said 500, she must have misheard me saying 5000. Rather offended, she checked with me- nope, 500. He was somewhat speechless! Haha
 
showingmadfilly said:
Just a word of warning to anyone buying a converted horsebox. A relation very close to myself has just purchased a box which broke down within two journeys. On deeper inspection it has come back that the box has not done the 1,400 miles the clock reads and has in fact done a ridiculous 220,000 miles. It had failed on major issues during it's MOT's before it had been converted and was then clocked and converted into an equine 3.5!

Police will now be informed and all payments retracted but I felt others should take this word of warning and make sure they don't get bitten by bodge jobs.
Click to expand...

A good reminder for people to take care when parting with their money and to watch out for things that sound too good to be true!

I am, however, amazed that anyone could mistake a van that had done 220,000 miles for a new one - there must have been some wear and tear. If they had done any research into horsebox conversions they would have known to be suspicious.
 
Do you know the stupid thing about when I bought mine? I took three people with me to see it - two who are fairly knowledgeable about vehicles! Yet I remember when they opened the bonnet that I expressed concern that it looked very "worn", but they assured me it was alright! I did feel rather smug when I turned out that my concerns had been right!
 
mga4ever said:
Polos mum - this is exactly the point I was trying to make. It's funny how OP won't give details of the box now as perhaps they have realised it should have been obvious the mileage was false.
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With all due respect or it could be that the box company aren't to blame and the OP doesn't want to name drop until all details are searched and found....... If the company is found to be guilty I will post everything but until then innocent until proven guilty.

The chasis as far as we are aware was bought before hand, not saying they didn't know but I do not believe in name and shame until all facts are known.
 
I wasn't asking you to name and shame the company. All I was saying is that if the chassis is over 12 months old 1400 miles would ring alarm bells to most people and you seemed unwilling to give any details relating to age of chassis, price range etc..... Ok do maybe the company did or didn't know but maybe common sense would have made a lot of people question what they were being told.
 
I've had a close escape twice, not with boxes, but with cars.

Went to see a nice little Rover 25 (approx 10 years ago so there have been ways of checking for some time), advert said 32k which for a car which was about 3 years old quite average mileage. Thought it looked a bit tatty inside but it drove nicely so retired to my Dad's car to discuss. On a whim saw a number for an RAC car check in the autotrader we'd brought with us. Called it and turns out it was an ex rental that had over 100k at the previous MOT! To be fair I think the woman who was selling it was as shocked as me, she hadn't had it long but was selling as she was (quite visibly) pregnant and needed a bigger car.

More recently I was looking for a Tigra, went to a very nice looking garage, advertised in the autotrader. Nothing unusual about the car, was an sensible price for the mileage/year. Took it for a test drive, all very nice. Saw all the documents (V5, MOT etc). Said I was going home to have a final think but would be back the next day. Went home did an RAC check online and it was flagged as stolen!

I always check anything like that - worth the peace of mind!
 
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