worded high viz tabbard

from what iv read insurance would still be valid however it could be a form of defence in a small claims court, along with every other warning tabard or the lack of hi-viz etc etc.... I suppose if im using it on my 12 year old I will be fine lol, what a funny world we live in !

How sad it is that I have to find ways to keep safe on roads (im pretty sure horses and animals on roads had/have right of way etc) wasn't there some old law or has that been done away with along with decent hacking :(
 
horseandshoes77 said:
from what iv read insurance would still be valid however it could be a form of defence in a small claims court, along with every other warning tabard or the lack of hi-viz etc etc.... I suppose if im using it on my 12 year old I will be fine lol, what a funny world we live in !

How sad it is that I have to find ways to keep safe on roads (im pretty sure horses and animals on roads had/have right of way etc) wasn't there some old law or has that been done away with along with decent hacking :(
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Horses don't have right of way on the road we are vulnerable road users like all other vulnerable road users , drivers have drive with care and attention , but we don't have a right of way over them.
 
I think it's a load of crap, sorry but I'd put money on nobody has been 'done' on the fact they are wearing a young horse tabard. Maybe a solicitor would bring it into play If the horse had genuinely caused an accident through being out of control but to find someone at fault through what is written on their tabard, no way. I see horse boxes with 'caution horses' written on them, will they be found at fault in an accident too?
 
weebarney said:
I think it's a load of crap, sorry but I'd put money on nobody has been 'done' on the fact they are wearing a young horse tabard. Maybe a solicitor would bring it into play If the horse had genuinely caused an accident through being out of control but to find someone at fault through what is written on their tabard, no way. I see horse boxes with 'caution horses' written on them, will they be found at fault in an accident too?
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Caution horses on lorrys is alert those behind that the lorry may brake slower than other lorrys .
In fact the maker of my lorry only puts horses on the back as he does not like to put the word caution fot the very reason we are discussing.
The point with tabards you are admitting in advance to something that can be said to make that horse different to others it's exactly the same with beware of the dog signs .
 
To successfully argue that the wearing of a 'Caution Young Horse' tabard amounts to contributory negligence when some tw*t has recklessly driven too close to you and ended up with you on his bonnet,would be nigh on impossible &somewhat upset the liability aspect of such claims. If it were successful (which I highly doubt) it is the fact the horse is young that is the problem to the defendant motorist's insurer (not that that fact has been sensibly advertised to forewarn motorists to exercise extra caution),henceforth millions of people riding youngsters would be banned from the roads (or uninsurable to venture onto them). Not a floodgate that is likely to be opened,IMO.
 
It is an urban myth, if a barrister was trying to prove the rider negligent in case of any accident they would find out all the info re the horse and riders age/experience and use that against them tabard or not.
Anyway I have one that says "Does my bum look big on this?" Everyone slows down, everyone smiles, even had 1 or 2 people reassure me that it doesn't lol.
 
Goldenstar said:
He argue robustly while booking a holiday with the proceeds of the case.
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He's actually a very nice barrister who works all hours, so I wouldn't begrudge him a good holiday. And if someone was daft enough to try to claim in court that using a "young horse" tabard or similar meant I was to blame for an accident he is just the person I'd want fighting on my side.

I quoted the discussions like this that come up again and again on this forum, and the anecdotal evidence that people constantly quote to suggest that insurance might be invalidated, the rider might be found to be to blame etc etc and he said it was "poppycock" - yes, he really uses words like that. :-))
 
My OH reckons "Young Horse" would be better than "Caution: Young Horse" because by using the word "caution" you are admitting that drivers need to be wary. I can see his point - it changes a statement to a warning.

Interesting comments and opinions though.
 
Who doesn't use their pay to book holidays?? What else is he supposed to use to pay for his hols,if not the proceeds of his work? Odd.....
 
horseandshoes77 said:
from what iv read insurance would still be valid however it could be a form of defence in a small claims court, along with every other warning tabard or the lack of hi-viz etc etc.... I suppose if im using it on my 12 year old I will be fine lol, what a funny world we live in !

How sad it is that I have to find ways to keep safe on roads (im pretty sure horses and animals on roads had/have right of way etc) wasn't there some old law or has that been done away with along with decent hacking :(
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You are just another road user, you have a duty of care to everyone else on that road but should not expect to be given any such right of way over other traffic.

I actually find a lot of horse riders' views on riding on the road very frustrating.

Whether anyone has been proved negligent or not through it is irrelevant, going on case law for similar incidents as previously stated, there is a strong evidence base that signs such as this admit your liability.
 
It's really hard these days for riders.

I still remember riding on main roads between villages and hardly seeing a car in the 80's and 90's. Especially on a Sunday.

Now it seems, no matter how early you get up to ride to avoid traffic, it's always there. As riders, I think collectively we try and condition our horses to traffic, roads, signs, etc and try and be visible, polite and give way when we can. Yet, it seems, a minority of motorists are either oblivious to us as legitimate road users, or want to drive us off the roads!

I live in a city and it does seem like the riding folk are fighting a losing battle. No-one seems to be on our side. I often hear mutterers when I'm down at the shops and see a group of riders saying "oh bloody horses, why are they on the roads??" Well, this makes so cross! We have a right to use the roads! We shouldn't HAVE to wear head to toe hi-viz but do for safety, we shouldn't HAVE to think about such mundane stuff as whether or not the word "CAUTION" is a no-no.

It's so infuriating.

I feel like organising a mass-horsey march with all the riders around my way on a Saturday morning when people want to go shopping, with a huge banner that says "RESPECT PLEASE! WE ARE ROAD USERS TOO!" That should get the press gang going and some much needed publicity!!!!
 
Personal bugbear are the 'Caution Horse and Rider' ones. I mean, d'oh, of course, if they can see you they can see you are a horse and rider! I have a please pass wide and slow, and I like the idea of attaching another one to the front.
 
The "Young Horse" tabards are amazing. I've printed hundreds of them and people often say it's the only thing that really grabs attention. In winter I ride in a thermal "Young Horse Training please be patient" jacket, but the fact it doesnt say this on the front means oncoming traffic isn't as slow. I've really seen a difference since switching to a tabard printed both sides the last few weeks.
 
Venevidivici said:
Who doesn't use their pay to book holidays?? What else is he supposed to use to pay for his hols,if not the proceeds of his work? Odd.....
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I grew up in a legal family I do understand well how it works barristers love to argue robustly it's what they do.
The comment made me laugh out loud when I read it .
It reminded so much of what one of my fathers oldest friends they would discuss some such thing and the friend would end the conversation with and then I booked a holiday.
 
I think the best people to advise you on if you are admitting liability by the wording on your high viz would be by picking up the phone to your insurers.
 
Ok from the BHS by phone
I am a gold member and have my liability insurance that way.
Any wording like Caution young horse young horse in training could make you liable in an accident because you have flagged up the issue and the onus is on you to manage the situation .
They recommend you use only plain tabards , or pass wide and slow Or one of the ones that say THINK .
 
At the yard i used to work at, they had some great worded high viz tabbards including:

Mind my ASS
How's my riding? call 0800... who cares


They seemed to have good effect on the drivers as they would slow down to read them!!! tehe, bit of fun for riding on roads!!
 
I've just bought one for a friend with Caution Asbo horse and a cartoon picture of a horse with piercings and a green Mohican :D

For Xmas I bought another freind one with Caution Deranged bitch with cartoon picture of a bolting horse and rider. Both off fleabay for about £7
 
I've worn a "caution young horse" tabard at times in the summer. My horse is 15 though so in no way young! Its just been the only tabard in the tack room & so grabbed it to have some hi-viz.

Are new drivers that put green L plates on more liable than other drivers?
 
Goldenstar said:
Ok from the BHS by phone
I am a gold member and have my liability insurance that way.
Any wording like Caution young horse young horse in training could make you liable in an accident because you have flagged up the issue and the onus is on you to manage the situation .
They recommend you use only plain tabards , or pass wide and slow Or one of the ones that say THINK .
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I like the THINK ones, I have found them very effective. My information regarding liability came from my father who is a partner of a law firm and works in insurance law.

It isn't to say that I agree with the blame and claim culture we are in, however I believe we should be more aware of what we may be insinuating should something go wrong.

I personally don't like the jokey "how's my riding" type wording, and I'm not sure how that would go against you should you have an accident, but from a non horsey driver's POV I can see how the tone of sarcasm may irritate someone who has taken time to slow down for you.
 
As far as I know, no one has ever been sued because of a warning on a tabard.
To do so would make complete nonsense of Motorcycle training tabards, or road signs warning of flooding and many other signs warning others to take caution.

Safety signs are there to warn others of a possible hazard so they can take appropriate care. It does not admit liability. It requires the public to take extra care.

The onus would be on the motorist to show that, having read the warning, they did take extra care, just as the rider would have to show that it was reasonable to ride the horse on the road.

If you are riding a horse on a road that you cannot reasonably control, the tabard is irrelevant. You shouldn't be out.
 
well having just come back from another very successful ride on the roads wearing the tabard I think I shall take my chance, its absolutely amazed me the change in attitude from drivers and even cyclists !

I think like with everything if an accident were to occur it would be one word against another regardless of what im wearing, my horse is as safe as she can be in traffic but yes she may spook at something at the side etc, if cars are passing me safely then the tabard is doing the job.

Its very interesting though as I have just passed a lot of roadworks with numerous road signs with caution on.... I wonder if I should pop down and fall over... after all they are clearly admitting all liability :D
 
horserider said:
As far as I know, no one has ever been sued because of a warning on a tabard.
To do so would make complete nonsense of Motorcycle training tabards, or road signs warning of flooding and many other signs warning others to take caution.

Safety signs are there to warn others of a possible hazard so they can take appropriate care. It does not admit liability. It requires the public to take extra care.

The onus would be on the motorist to show that, having read the warning, they did take extra care, just as the rider would have to show that it was reasonable to ride the horse on the road.

If you are riding a horse on a road that you cannot reasonably control, the tabard is irrelevant. You shouldn't be out.
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As far as you know , surely the answer is to check with your insurer as I did .
No the onus is not on the driver , the rider is in control ( or not )of the hazard ( the horse )
A rider would have to prove the driver did not behave reasonable way.
I think you will find that many many horse related accidents are not caused by drivers but by riders losing control of their horses.
The main reason to wear hi viz is to be seen theres no grey areas there it will increase your visability.
 
asommerville said:
what about putting L plates on?
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Someone @ my yard used to use hi viz with attached L plates (plus an L plate at the rear of the horse & one on his breastplate) when taking their young horse out on the roads. She said that cards always gave them room. Her theory was that drivers don't always understand horses but do know what L plates mean.
 
horseandshoes77 said:
well having just come back from another very successful ride on the roads wearing the tabard I think I shall take my chance, its absolutely amazed me the change in attitude from drivers and even cyclists !

I think like with everything if an accident were to occur it would be one word against another regardless of what im wearing, my horse is as safe as she can be in traffic but yes she may spook at something at the side etc, if cars are passing me safely then the tabard is doing the job.

Its very interesting though as I have just passed a lot of roadworks with numerous road signs with caution on.... I wonder if I should pop down and fall over... after all they are clearly admitting all liability :D
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When did you last see a set of road works run into the path of an oncoming car?
 
Goldenstar said:
When did you last see a set of road works run into the path of an oncoming car?
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but surely the fact they know the pavement is hazardous hence the caution sign!! so if I still decide to walk along and trip up surely they are liable as they have written caution therefore they know it is a hazard !

my mare doesn't step into on coming vehicles either however drivers like to whizz past an inch off my stirrup !

I think the tabard is the safer option for the drivers as my second option would be a schooling whip with a bolt or screw on the end to whack their cars with....and YES I would be totally liable then :D
 
Coblover63 said:
My OH reckons "Young Horse" would be better than "Caution: Young Horse" because by using the word "caution" you are admitting that drivers need to be wary. I can see his point - it changes a statement to a warning.

Interesting comments and opinions though.
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personal.



caution young horse , that way if something does happened you can argue well they were warned to take caution.

I thought the whole point was to make drivers wary of a young horse..



young horse could mean its young only not likely to get scared easily.
 
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