Working/competing on bute/devils claw or similar

alsxx

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I'm interested in people's opinions and experiences in working (or competing) a horse on a low dose of bute, or devils claw or similar. Are their effects similar, is one worse than the other (in terms of, if something needs buteless to stay sound, should it be on bute)?

If you do, or have done, what was the reason, and what did it allow you to do/what were you prepared to do? Do people actually compete a horse on bute? That seems to be like cheating...

I'm wondering as I'm really not sure what is going to happen with my mare, I'm shortly going to turn her away until autumn and see what happens. But this is obviously something that I may need to do in order to carry on riding her after her break.
 

dixie

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You are allowed to BSJA on bute but not event, not sure about dressage but think that is a no no.

I have a horse who I was told to put on bute long-term by my vet and he has been since May 08, on one a day. He's been sound as a pound on this.

Since January though I switched to "no-bute" and took him off the bute to see what would happen and to date he is still sound (fingers tightly crossed !)

There is a big stigma about having a horse on bute long term re liver damage etc but if you speak to your vets you may find that they think this risk is minimal compared to a quality working life for the horse. At the end of the day its horses for courses and you need to work out whats best for you and your horse.

I also think that a lot more people work off bute or similar than you think, especially SJ.
 

pinktiger

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i m sorry but am sure you are
NOT
allowed to BSJA on bute!! If your horse needs bute there is a reason and its wrong imo to compete a horse who without bute is clearly unable to do the job due to pain ect!! I also would not like to work a horse on bute either but that i guess depends on the injury being treated ect ect ect!!
 

sye777

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Basically anywhere you are not going to be randomly drug tested you can compete at. Local shows and unafiliated should not be a problem as you are not competing for money! We have a pony that took a well known herbal calmer not realising it contained Valerian (totaly my fault not checking!) which is a banned competition drug! Have now swapped him over to a VF (valerian free) version which agrees with him so are able to compete him legaly again! Could have been very embarassing!! So check your labels!!!!
 

dixie

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[ QUOTE ]
i m sorry but am sure you are
NOT
allowed to BSJA on bute!! If your horse needs bute there is a reason and its wrong imo to compete a horse who without bute is clearly unable to do the job due to pain ect!! I also would not like to work a horse on bute either but that i guess depends on the injury being treated ect ect ect!!

[/ QUOTE ]


If you look at Page 84, Rule 98 it says

"Phenylbutazone is excluded from the list of forbidden substances"

So, bute is allowable - unless under FEI rules.

A course builder told me a couple of years ago that Bute was allowable - two a day I believe (?) - & it doesn't appear to have changed yet.
 

pinktiger

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this rule is compensated by the horse welfare rule apendex attached to the banned substances rule, stating that any result concluding that a horse's welfare has been compromised by the inclusion of this drug for competitive gain!! if you read the small print!!! I think that this drug is banned from FEI, poss Brtitish Eventing, and poss British Dressage says it all really! I for one wouldnt want to test the BSJA rule as i think they have very well covered themselves with the apendix attacted!!IMHO
 

alsxx

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Thanks for everyone's replies. I'm not too concerned about the long term affects of bute if my vet does feel thats what she needs. If thats what she needs then the chances are she will either be retired or become a happy hack, as I want something I can compete on.

Basically at the moment she has very low grade lameness which hopefully will resolve, albeit needing pads on feet. So if something like devils claw would help ease any stiffness I'm not sure if thats something I would feel happy giving if we could compete (and if we could probably only low level BD so not exactly high flying or anything!). Obviously this is all a long way off but its been something I've been thinking a lot about recently!

Does anyone on here give a bute-free supplement to ease aches/pains/stiffness and still compete? Please pm if you would rather!
 

Halfstep

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Bute most certainly is banned for BD, and random tests are done at all levels! I was at Addington a few years ago when they did random tests - and they found two positives for bute.

Lame = pain (most of the time, and if Bute helps, then it is definitely pain related). A horse in pain should not be competing.

Devil's claw is fine for competing, at least at BD and isn't FEI banned either as far as I know.
 

martlin

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I use devils claw as an anti inflammatory for a horse that comes up with sweat rash, I use it only if in hard work/competition - he wouldn't be able to compete otherwise as the rash gets really bad. Bute has the same effect on him, but DC is easier to get and I prefer going herbal:)
So it is not always lame/in pain etc.
 

emma69

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We used devil's claw on one of our horses with navicular - we didn't compete her, but she had a full life on it. With navicular, there is divided opinion, but I tend to side with those who agree exercise is beneficial, keping the blood flowing to the foot. She was on bute, but we decided to try devil's claw because of the risk of liver problems with long term bute use. The devil's claw takes about a month to start working, so rather than have her in pain we did keep her on the bute (vet advised of dosage) for that time, but when it started to work, she was happy on the devils claw, so we were happy!
 
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