Working dogs in pet homes

niko said:
I have a working line black sable shepherd bitch. My intent was her to be the predecessor to the dog I competed with. She was got for dog sport so especially highly driven, with amazing ball drive.
However, life got in the way & a toddler & 4month old changed that. She's now a family pet....albeit an exceptionally high energy one! I work from home & with two kids she still still has to come first. I can't have a coffee without taking her across the fields to relieve the energy stored through the night! I could easily take her out 4/5 times a day do brain work, run her ragged & she's still ready to go! The baby goes on my back, toddler gets suited & booted & off we go across fields no matter the weather she needs exercise. It aggravates me when people have a family & the dog is cast aside, left outside or rehomed as they don't have time. Well you made a commitment to the dog, honour it.
After lots of stimulation we finally find a mellow button, then she will lie in front of the fire or beside the baby with a chew and be content.......until the next daylight hours!
When I was pregnant I talked about rehoming her to a working home or police. But I couldn't part with her as she survived parvo & swear she fought it to stay with us. So although she's a working dog, she's a pet, but now that's her job. To play with the kids, lie on the sofa & be ready to chase a ball. I don't think she misses working to be honest, her role has just changed. But again it's about stimulation.....She's takes a lot but I signed up to that & ensure she gets it.
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Agree with everything you said!
My husband had to take our GSD for a run before I would let him take me to hospital while I was in established labour! As he always had a run around the fields at the horses every morning so why should that day be any different?!

Working GSD: the trend for malinois and also husky types scares me. I am sure they are wonderful loyal dogs for experienced dedicated owners. But not really a pet.
 
I cannot comprehend on any level how anyone could have a springer spaniel as a pet.
OH & I have had dobes, collies, kelpies, heelers, lurchers, mutts and a load of terriers and I have never, ever met a dog that is such hard work. She is incredibly cute and I am sure that she will be excellent at her job when she is old enough to do it but wow, the next 18 months will be testing.
 
Clodagh said:
I cannot comprehend on any level how anyone could have a springer spaniel as a pet.
OH & I have had dobes, collies, kelpies, heelers, lurchers, mutts and a load of terriers and I have never, ever met a dog that is such hard work. She is incredibly cute and I am sure that she will be excellent at her job when she is old enough to do it but wow, the next 18 months will be testing.
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And yet gundogs, inc spaniels, are often put forward as great family dogs. I reckon that is probably because of their friendly nature, but some people forget to also mention or to consider the strong hunt and work drive of such dogs.
 
I suppose that's one argument in favour of maintaining the split between show and working type gundogs - I know there's plenty that think the show types are an abomination but they are usually far better suited to being family pets.

Alaskan Klee Kai etc. could be regarded as similar attempts at domesticating the Siberian. :p
 
WorkingGSD said:
And yet gundogs, inc spaniels, are often put forward as great family dogs. I reckon that is probably because of their friendly nature, but some people forget to also mention or to consider the strong hunt and work drive of such dogs.
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I think a working lab can fit well into a pet home, if a very active one. Retrieving breeds tend to want to do things with you - fetch the ball etc, and that means they tend to want to know where you are. Spaniels (in my huge experience of one!) just want to vanish out hunting, pleasing themselves, and it is no skin off their noses if you are there or not. It is hard for me to judge, as all my dogs work, but whereas a 4 month old lab will potter along on a little walk, doing the smells and staying in sight, the spaniel does not have that connection. Walking her is work rather than pleasure. I suppose if she was to be a pet she could just run off hunting and hopefully no harm done, but we cannot allow her to self gratify that way. That was why I asked about your collie pups presumably wanting to round things up all the time.
 
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blackcob said:
I suppose that's one argument in favour of maintaining the split between show and working type gundogs - I know there's plenty that think the show types are an abomination but they are usually far better suited to being family pets.
p
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Yes, although I don't know any show type spainels, I imagine they would still hunt but maybe slower and with less commitment. This one we have is like those flying beetle things in the Northern Lights book.
 
Clodagh said:
This one we have is like those flying beetle things in the Northern Lights book.
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Eek! :o

My mum's show spaniels do love hunting but they mostly love being glued to their humans more, something I find both endearing and baffling after the sibes. I think the only time I've ever lost out was to a really tempting seagull!
 
blackcob said:
Eek! :o

My mum's show spaniels do love hunting but they mostly love being glued to their humans more, something I find both endearing and baffling after the sibes. I think the only time I've ever lost out was to a really tempting seagull!
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Are they cockers? Apparently even working cockers are human needy - no one told us that until we got a springer!
 
They are - should've had a cocker. ;) :D

It's lovely to a point, I am a bit glad to hand them back after their holidays though. One time I nearly squashed the eldest as I was getting out of the shower, he was curled up and camouflaged in the discarded clothes on the floor, waiting to affix himself back to my leg. It's too much!
 
We've got mainly GSP's from strong German working lines, & they make perfect pets, but probably because they are given the stimulation they need. I don't think working lines are right for everyone - I've rehomed lots of rescue GSP's & sometimes the ones with more working lines can be a bit more demanding (am not sure that's the right word!), so perhaps for first time GSP owners, a show bred one may be wiser (although i don't think there's enough difference to make it a deal breaker & all depends on the dog/owner).

From what i've seen, there seems to be more of a difference in breeds such as cockers, siberian huskies, & even more so, Alaskan huskies. The latter (not a breed of course - I like to think of them as the lurcher of the sled dog world - i have one who is often mistaken for a collie!) because they are particularly bred for their working qualities
 
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Clodagh said:
Yes, although I don't know any show type spainels, I imagine they would still hunt but maybe slower and with less commitment. This one we have is like those flying beetle things in the Northern Lights book.
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Hehe, I always think that the very working type springers do look like they've got voices in their heads :D You know, as they're staring manically at a stray piece of gravel or leaping about snapping at the air, trying to catch some air borne thing only they can see :p
 
Clodagh said:
Are they cockers? Apparently even working cockers are human needy - no one told us that until we got a springer!
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Mrs Spaniel is incredibly needy!!! She is like Velcro all the time, never rests if I'm in the house with her and get up, she needs to go first and lead the way into danger, often walking into things as she has her head over her shoulder watching me. *rolls eyes* lying on the sofa she needs to be as close as possible or even just a paw or head resting on you.

I wouldn't say there was much of a hunting drive in her. She knows where she can chase pigeons and squirrels and where she needs to leave them alone but even if she does set off she never goes far as frets about me being out of eyesight!
 
Karran said:
Mrs Spaniel is incredibly needy!!! She is like Velcro all the time, never rests if I'm in the house with her and get up, she needs to go first and lead the way into danger, often walking into things as she has her head over her shoulder watching me. *rolls eyes* lying on the sofa she needs to be as close as possible or even just a paw or head resting on you.

I wouldn't say there was much of a hunting drive in her. She knows where she can chase pigeons and squirrels and where she needs to leave them alone but even if she does set off she never goes far as frets about me being out of eyesight!
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Wanna swap for mine?? Massive hunting drive, can scent a pheasant 3 fields over and will be gone if you take your eye off the ball....I'm sure there are people in the area who actually think his name is "little s.h.i.t" !!!
 
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I think we're doing alright! He's a FT bred (and failed, then failed in a 'normal' working home). He settles much quicker than my sisters working bred WSD we've had since puppy. Walking him is working him and the lack of consistency inherent with living in a family house can easily cause issues but in a 'doggy' household he's be an unbeatable pet. My previous dog was a show bred cocker with 0 hunt or work drive, he never fetched or flushed or chased a single thing, did agility at the trot- there's literally no comparison!
 
I'll say it again.....you have the wrong breeds, not the wrong 'type' of dog...... :D My working dogs....

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Well if you will insist on sticking to those cockers, springers and the like..... :p
 
maisie06 said:
Wanna swap for mine?? Massive hunting drive, can scent a pheasant 3 fields over and will be gone if you take your eye off the ball....I'm sure there are people in the area who actually think his name is "little s.h.i.t" !!!
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Haha! To be fair I think I've got quite lucky with her, listening to other peoples stories of their maniac spaniels!
 
Clodagh said:
I cannot comprehend on any level how anyone could have a springer spaniel as a pet.
OH & I have had dobes, collies, kelpies, heelers, lurchers, mutts and a load of terriers and I have never, ever met a dog that is such hard work. She is incredibly cute and I am sure that she will be excellent at her job when she is old enough to do it but wow, the next 18 months will be testing.
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Couldn't agree more, yet people are aghast when I explain mine never "go for walks" because they'd be self hunting in the next county in a flash
 
druid said:
Couldn't agree more, yet people are aghast when I explain mine never "go for walks" because they'd be self hunting in the next county in a flash
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I am so glad to hear you say that. To us walking the dogs is a pleasure for us and them. She only gets out the garden on a long line for a poo or for a quick training session. Even in the garden she runs after blackbirds and pigeons.
 
Am I missing something? I thought the whole point of working dogs was that they had inherent traits that made them suitable for a particular job but had a trainable temperament that enabled the dog to be trained to work with it's human. If the dog can't be trained then surely it's just a liability as a working dog. If you have a working dog as a pet then the owner needs to find other ways to meet it's natural instincts/drive/energy level etc. My SIL's WC is perfectly trainable and would be brilliant at agility and lots of other things but she doesn't make the effort to meet it's need to have it's brain engaged as well as it's legs. I can't help thinking that perhaps people don't consider their level of comittment and the time they have available to devote to a dog when they make their choice of breed and that's more of a problem than whether they get a working or show breed.
 
oldie48 said:
Am I missing something? I thought the whole point of working dogs was that they had inherent traits that made them suitable for a particular job but had a trainable temperament that enabled the dog to be trained to work with it's human. If the dog can't be trained then surely it's just a liability as a working dog. If you have a working dog as a pet then the owner needs to find other ways to meet it's natural instincts/drive/energy level etc. My SIL's WC is perfectly trainable and would be brilliant at agility and lots of other things but she doesn't make the effort to meet it's need to have it's brain engaged as well as it's legs. I can't help thinking that perhaps people don't consider their level of comittment and the time they have available to devote to a dog when they make their choice of breed and that's more of a problem than whether they get a working or show breed.
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I used to think that, too. :-)
 
For a serious answer, Oldie48, it depends what they have been bred for. Spaniels have been bred for generations to be hard hunting dogs with 110% commitment to finding that game. That will include going into woods, nettles, brambles and just hunting all day. They need to be tireless and have endless enthusiasm. Yes they also need to be trainable, but at a young age you are not letting them hunt, as they must only hunt for you not themselves. For instance Smut at 5 months has excellent recall and stop but once she has recalled or stopped she is just off after those smells again, at a flat gallop.
 
Clodagh said:
For a serious answer, Oldie48, it depends what they have been bred for. Spaniels have been bred for generations to be hard hunting dogs with 110% commitment to finding that game. That will include going into woods, nettles, brambles and just hunting all day. They need to be tireless and have endless enthusiasm. Yes they also need to be trainable, but at a young age you are not letting them hunt, as they must only hunt for you not themselves. For instance Smut at 5 months has excellent recall and stop but once she has recalled or stopped she is just off after those smells again, at a flat gallop.
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That's clearly where SIL has gone wrong. I was keen on getting a WC as I WAS very taken with SIL's dog but OH was less so, perhaps on this occasion he was right. Friend's show cocker was mad as a pup but actually is now a really super pet.
 
oldie48 said:
Am I missing something? I thought the whole point of working dogs was that they had inherent traits that made them suitable for a particular job but had a trainable temperament that enabled the dog to be trained to work with it's human. If the dog can't be trained then surely it's just a liability as a working dog.
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Trained to what though? If you buy a working bred dog such as a spaniel, you can’t train the hunting drive out of them in favour of pavement walks and extended sofa breaks? The issue is people picking the wrong breeds( and breeders selling to the wrong homes equally) but as trainable as my WGRs are, I can’t train them to be less driven working dogs and need their mental and physical demands met each day.

I agree with Clodaugh though, spaniels as pets, lol, just NO.
 
oldie48 said:
Am I missing something? I thought the whole point of working dogs was that they had inherent traits that made them suitable for a particular job but had a trainable temperament that enabled the dog to be trained to work with it's human. If the dog can't be trained then surely it's just a liability as a working dog. If you have a working dog as a pet then the owner needs to find other ways to meet it's natural instincts/drive/energy level etc. My SIL's WC is perfectly trainable and would be brilliant at agility and lots of other things but she doesn't make the effort to meet it's need to have it's brain engaged as well as it's legs. I can't help thinking that perhaps people don't consider their level of comittment and the time they have available to devote to a dog when they make their choice of breed and that's more of a problem than whether they get a working or show breed.
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You haven't missed the point - you have hit the nail on the head! Choose your breed wisely, not just based on looks, fashion or fad, try to match your lifestyle to a suitable breed or be prepared to change your lifestyle to accommodate particular needs, then look at the different types and lines of dog within the breed. Look at the parents and grandparents, older siblings and speak to other owners. Find out what the dogs from a particular breeder or line are like to live with and decide whether the home offered is suitable for such a dog. Of course there will always be variables within breeds, lines and even litters - but there will also be inherent traits and expected energy levels, training and exercise requirements. No matter what though, not all dogs will be suitable for all homes so it is down to the breeder to be more particular about where they sell pups to, and for buyers to be honest with themselves about the type of home and activities they can provide and whether it will match their chosen dog.
 
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RunToEarth said:
Trained to what though? If you buy a working bred dog such as a spaniel, you can’t train the hunting drive out of them in favour of pavement walks and extended sofa breaks? The issue is people picking the wrong breeds( and breeders selling to the wrong homes equally) but as trainable as my WGRs are, I can’t train them to be less driven working dogs and need their mental and physical demands met each day.
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Precisely this!
 
druid said:
Couldn't agree more, yet people are aghast when I explain mine never "go for walks" because they'd be self hunting in the next county in a flash
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Every walk is a training session with a WCS! Take last night...the pet dog people just let their dogs chase the pheasants all over the wood and think I'm a cruel owner because I won't let Billy do that...oh no way!! he's to sit to the flush if one flaps up and he's on a line to emphasise the fact stop means STOP...end of!! I'm lucky I have tonnes of ideal training ground at the farm where I look after a friends horse!!

But having said that training him isn't a chore and I'm enjoying it....I have a massive list of things I would NEVER do if I had another spaniel though!!
 
maisie06 said:
Every walk is a training session with a WCS! Take last night...the pet dog people just let their dogs chase the pheasants all over the wood and think I'm a cruel owner because I won't let Billy do that...oh no way!! he's to sit to the flush if one flaps up and he's on a line to emphasise the fact stop means STOP...end of!! I'm lucky I have tonnes of ideal training ground at the farm where I look after a friends horse!!

But having said that training him isn't a chore and I'm enjoying it....I have a massive list of things I would NEVER do if I had another spaniel though!!
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But that's not going for a walk, that's training him to hunt...mine hunt and retrieve lots and have a "go play" command used in the exercise field but I never arrive somewhere. take their leads off and stroll along letting them run about
 
I must be missing something (or have been somehow lucky as I think I sad earlier in the thread) I have a working bred spaniel (sprocker) in very much a pet home, we dabbled in agility when he was younger and do longer walks a couple of times a week but by no means everyday and he's fine. Doesn't bog off to hunt, but training recall was always top priority, and is perfectly content sofa surfing for a day, even a few days on the trot if he has to. Every walk involves training and games though because to me that's what you do with dogs... perhaps in more typical "pet" homes the dog gets ignored more while out? I like my dogs in sight and engaged with me while walking and am always strict about it, so maybe that's what has worked for us.
 
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