Working Dogs Questions

[Terrayza]

Hi Everyone,
I joined this forum to educate myself about dogs. I live in London and have a dog who I love very much. I have met many other dogs when I am with Ben as he is very sociable and outgoing. Two of his friends are "working cockers" I don't understand this terminology as they have never worked in their lives! What I have noticed is that they are extremely high energy dogs, also very strong, very affectionate too, I love them. I think the idea of a working dog is wonderful as they love to please and what a great way to channel energy. My question is this to those of you who have working dogs, What do they actually do? What is their work? Also when a dog is sold as a "working cocker" does that mean that his/her parents were working dogs or the grandparents or great grandparents? I am really confused about this

 

[CorvusCorax]

It just means what lines they are from. So a cocker will have working/field trial or actual working dogs (on a shoot) in some or all of its pedigree.
Most popular breeds apart from toy and utility types are split into work or show lines, spaniels, retrievers, GSDs. One of the downsides of kennel clubs aiming for very pretty dogs and never mind their working ability and/or the pet market demand for quieter, less active dogs as family pets.
A minority of dogs do both working and showing.
I think it is a mistake that so many innate instincts have been bred out of so many breeds (within reason, bull baiting etc!!)

There is a futher subsection I call 'pet lines' where the pedigree is full of unknowns.
Sometimes if the dog is not to breed standard, someone will claim it is 'working lines' because it wouldn't win in a show, but it has no working genetics either.

I keep working/sporting line German Shepherds.
They dont 'work' as in patrol the streets and track down baddies, but they compete in a sport which is a very stylized simulation of the work that an all round service dog is expected to do.
I also show mine.
They are also pets who live with me.
If they don't have some form of brain occupation, they are a PITA.
If people don't like this, IMO, rather than breed that out, they should pick a more laid back, sedentary type of dog.
One of my males goes back to show lines in the fourth or fifth generation of his mother's side before the 'split', which was by human design and can be mostly put at the door of two brothers who were breeders/judges and held a lot of sway. They dictated which lines were most desirable for breeding. Their lines, surprisingly!

I prefer the term 'from working lines'. I know people who say they have a 'working dog/working GSD' but they are just describing the pedigree, not anything that the dog has actually done.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I think it is a mistake that so many innate instincts have been bred out of so many breeds (within reason, bull baiting etc!!)

I really couldn't agree more! My family have had Labradors all my life, the early ones (1950s/60s) had dual champions in their pedigrees, were lovely looking, square-built dogs, very trainable but relatively high energy, that needed aj ob to do.
The latest pair are working-bred, very trainable and pretty high energy but scuttering little things that wouldn't win any beauty/show prizes at all!
They do still have the easy-going temperament, thank goodness!

 

[NR88]

There are two types of cocker; working and show. They look very different different are different bloodlines so that will be why the non-workin dogs are still referred to as working.

As described above dogs will have different breeding depending on what purpose they have been bred for. Usually a dog bred for thr show ring differs from one that will do a job.

My working cockers are pets BUT they get a lot of mental and physical stimulation from training, competing and working. They do a variety of obedience, field trials and working trials training and compete in the latter two as well as lots of walks, play time and being spoiled with affection.

They are very on the go dogs and if they don't have a purpose where there energy is put to good use they can cause absolute havoc. I know of people who have bought them to be affection pets and it has not gone well for human or poor dogs.

 

[Karran]

I have a working cocker in London. It often baffles people when I try to explain, so I describe her as more energy, less hair! ?

She is first and foremost a pet, BUT until I worked out that she needed more mental stimulation than physical she was a nightmare. I'd do 14 mile walks and then flop on sofa exhausted where as she'd throw a ball on my lap and demand a game. I don't "work" her as such but she helps at the yard with my horses, attends flyball classes and competitions and agility training/comps when I get the time/covid allows. Now she is the perfect dog always on the go but also always ready to get on my lap for a cuddle and a nap.

A lady in the park saw Mrs Spaniel and decided she wanted one and got a working line golden Spaniel. She has one 20 minute walk a day, is practically insane with boredom and the woman thinks it a breed trait for her to steal and chew up clothing/shoes, raid bins, go off on her own sniffing safari's and create chaos at home and in the park.

 

[Annette4]

Not a cocker but I have two working bred whippets.

One is a true working whippet, lovely trainable lady with a high prey drive and more stamina than her show line pals. She has no interest is lures but will go after anything live.

The other was sold to us as a working whippet but is most definitely what I would refer to as 'caravan bred' and has some saluki in there. Far less trainable but incredibly high drive, athletic and intelligent he just uses it for evil (mischief). He also needs a job and since I can't find anywhere locally that does lure work he does several sports.

I'd have another working line full whippet, I much prefer them to the show lines but doing sports with working spaniels has put me off them ?

 

[Esmae]

Not a cocker but I have two working bred whippets.

One is a true working whippet, lovely trainable lady with a high prey drive and more stamina than her show line pals. She has no interest is lures but will go after anything live.

The other was sold to us as a working whippet but is most definitely what I would refer to as 'caravan bred' and has some saluki in there. Far less trainable but incredibly high drive, athletic and intelligent he just uses it for evil (mischief). He also needs a job and since I can't find anywhere locally that does lure work he does several sports.

I'd have another working line full whippet, I much prefer them to the show lines but doing sports with working spaniels has put me off them ?

Out of interest are your "working" whippets larger than show bred lines?

 

[Moobli]

I have working line German shepherds. They are my companions but also herd and guard on our farm and we do tracking and scentwork for fun. They need a “job” to do or are likely to go self employed.
My husband is an employed shepherd and his sheepdogs are all from working lines (border collies and working beardies). So they are actual working dogs. Working beardie is a term like working cocker that just means they are bearded collies from working lines rather than show or pet lines. The working lines often look very different to their show or pet counterparts as well as possessing stronger drives for the work they were originally bred to do.

 

[Annette4]

Out of interest are your "working" whippets larger than show bred lines?

They are yes, Fizz is lovingly referred to as a whoppit ?

 

[maisie06]

I have a Working Cocker and a springer bred from field trialling lines. The Working cockers are quite far removed from the show lines these days, they are alot more altheletic and full of stamina, much less coat too. Personally I'm not keen on show lines but if you want a pure pet they would probably be more suitable! My cocker has a fantastic nose and found birds that had been missed on a shoot last week, he'll go in any cover too.

The springer has masses of energy and is much more trainable than the cocker, Both work during the season, out beating and picking up, I absolutley adore working them and watching them do the job they were bred to do. In the summer they will do lots of training and mental stimulation, they don't actually need hours of running around which is what people assume when you use the word working! 20 mins of quality training will have them happy and settled.

 

[Esmae]

They are yes, Fizz is lovingly referred to as a whoppit ?

Well that explains my whippet/whoppit pup. From working lines at 7 months with a bit of growing to do he is a fair bit bigger than my other lad who is just a year. Thank you, I was wondering.

 

[Terrayza]

Thank you all for getting back to me but I still do not understand what work these dogs do . My dog is not a working dog but high energy we a=walk 5 miles a day and he plays with other dogs what work is it ithat woking dogs do

 

[Terrayza]

I have a Working Cocker and a springer bred from field trialling lines. The Working cockers are quite far removed from the show lines these days, they are alot more altheletic and full of stamina, much less coat too. Personally I'm not keen on show lines but if you want a pure pet they would probably be more suitable! My cocker has a fantastic nose and found birds that had been missed on a shoot last week, he'll go in any cover too.

The springer has masses of energy and is much more trainable than the cocker, Both work during the season, out beating and picking up, I absolutley adore working them and watching them do the job they were bred to do. In the summer they will do lots of training and mental stimulation, they don't actually need hours of running around which is what people assume when you use the word working! 20 mins of quality training will have them happy and settled.

 

[Terrayza]

thank you I understand, so they pick up birds. , theyreally work. I understand that. what i do not understqnd i s people in london having them as pets.

 

[Moobli]

Thank you all for getting back to me but I still do not understand what work these dogs do . My dog is not a working dog but high energy we a=walk 5 miles a day and he plays with other dogs what work is it ithat woking dogs do

Working dogs have a proper job - spaniels picking up, GSDs guarding, border collies herding etc etc etc.
Working line dogs are from generations of dogs bred for a job but might not actually do a job if they live as an active pet.

 

[Moobli]

thank you I understand, so they pick up birds. , theyreally work. I understand that. what i do not understqnd i s people in london having them as pets.

Lots of people choose working bred dogs to keep as pets for a variety of reasons … for sport (working cockers do well at agility) , because they do lots of exercise and want a dog to keep up, they like the look of the workers over show etc etc.

 

[Karran]

I have working line dogs as I like to be active. I have always had busy dogs in my life growing up with a working line labrador to 3 retired GSD police dogs as a child. I love the fact that my dogs have more energy, and brain power than the pet dogs I see in the parks. I like the fact that both my working line cocker and farm bred hard working collie have less hair to worry about grooming.
I don't have sheep for my collie to herd or pheasants for my Spaniel to collect but we love learning tricks together, testing ourselves with flyball, agility and obedience, all of which help my bond with them.

I don't understand the people who get working line dogs and don't do anything with them (in this case I mean working their brain, not just decent walks which it sounds like yours does ?) in some form, as in the case of the Spaniel I mentioned earlier.
My labrador had a job of looking after us as children, collecting balls that went astray from endless football/cricket/tennis games (I am very bad at sports and balls often went astray) the GSD's although retired had a job to find us when we were in the park playing hide and seek or we would amuse adults by having a 6 year old squeak at a large GSD to do 'down' 'sit' 'heel' 'spin'. So it's been installed in me early to 'work' a dogs brain, even though I don't have the knowledge and experience of most people on here who work their dogs on shoots or farms etc.

My rescue collie is in the wrong environment and should be on a farm working sheep, left to her own devices she will herd people, cyclists, livestock, dogs, so I constantly work her to do a trick, do her obedience, do a retrieve. I do not understand her previous owners who thought that she would be trainable and are much more suited to the cavipoo they replaced her with as he is happy to be fussed all day and have a short walk once a day.
I've done 7.8 miles with my two today and they have helped me muck out a stable before that. Now my dogs are exhausted and asleep. They should technically be working (although I think Mrs Spaniel would fail as a gun dog as she's a bit of a diva) but they have had a full on fun day outside. I re-arrange my life to give them the exercise physically and mentally that they need despite working full-time up in London (pre-covid) and it saddens me that not everyone who gets a dog is prepared to rearrange their lives to make their dog hqppy who afterall didn't ask to be a city pet dog or do the research beforehand.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

We chose working lines this time round, 5 generations of working dogs. I wanted lively dogs. I can see that one of the puppies will need a job. He will be trained to retrieve, his walks will be training, not a gentle stroll round the park. He’d probably be a brilliant gundog but I don’t really want to take him out shooting. His brother, on the other hand, likes being indoors and has zero stamina, although he’s obviously very young still.

The puppy pandemic group in the park just stand round chatting. Bear told off a young pointer yesterday. She’s bored, why get a working dog? There’s a golden retriever, bonkers, owner just stands round chatting, dog spins round everyone, going loopy. We kept away yesterday, the group was too big, there was a fight between 2 dogs. The owners are not doing anything with their dogs, it’s bonkers.

 

[Terrayza]

Thank you so much it is really interesting for me to learn what these dogs do, I think it is wonderful . i have never known what it meant before but now I understand it. it is funny though as iin London people are keen to say their dog is a working dog when actually they are not!! my dogis not a working dog but i want to investigate agility/ flyball for him.

 

[Karran]

Terrayza where are you in London? I can recommend some places for agility/flyball

 

[Terrayza]

We chose working lines this time round, 5 generations of working dogs. I wanted lively dogs. I can see that one of the puppies will need a job. He will be trained to retrieve, his walks will be training, not a gentle stroll round the park. He’d probably be a brilliant gundog but I don’t really want to take him out shooting. His brother, on the other hand, likes being indoors and has zero stamina, although he’s obviously very young still.

The puppy pandemic group in the park just stand round chatting. Bear told off a young pointer yesterday. She’s bored, why get a working dog? There’s a golden retriever, bonkers, owner just stands round chatting, dog spins round everyone, going loopy. We kept away yesterday, the group was too big, there was a fight between 2 dogs. The owners are not doing anything with their dogs, it’s bonkers.

I so understand how you feel about the puppy pandemic, I got Ben before all of this nightmare. , i live in London but am lucky as a ten minute drive away we have woods and fieldsevery day I drive there and we walk. but we also have a local rec where we go if i am injured, I have had abad foot injury the rec is lovely but wow there is so much to learn , dogs have ther ears and tails cut and in south east london

 

[stangs]

If you’re in S London, there’s also a few scentwork trainers around the London/Surrey overlap if that would be of any interest for your boy? I just think there’s nothing better for their brains than lots of serious sniffing.

 

[NR88]

Thank you so much it is really interesting for me to learn what these dogs do, I think it is wonderful . i have never known what it meant before but now I understand it. it is funny though as iin London people are keen to say their dog is a working dog when actually they are not!! my dogis not a working dog but i want to investigate agility/ flyball for him.

A working cocker is a type so even if it doesn't work a day in its life its is a working cocker. The other type of cocker is a Show cocker.

Similarly springers, collies and GSD, amongst others, will be referred to as working dogs because that is how they are bred. They are still from working lines even if their owners do no work them.

Types within a breed differ, if they are considerably bred, between show and working.

 

[Goldenstar]

I have two labradors both working bred slim fast and anxious to please they come from working lines of parents both of them have numerous field trials champions in there pedigree.

 

[Terrayza]

If you’re in S London, there’s also a few scentwork trainers around the London/Surrey overlap if that would be of any interest for your boy? I just think there’s nothing better for their brains than lots of serious sniffing.

If you’re in S London, there’s also a few scentwork trainers around the London/Surrey overlap if that would be of any interest for your boy? I just think there’s nothing better for their brains than lots of serious sniffing.

thank you

 

[maisie06]

Thank you all for getting back to me but I still do not understand what work these dogs do . My dog is not a working dog but high energy we a=walk 5 miles a day and he plays with other dogs what work is it ithat woking dogs do

Both of my spaniels hunt, flush and retrieve game. So when in the beating line they will be required to move game to a flushing point and them put the birds in the air ina controlled way. Dogs working in the beating line have to be steady to game running in front of them and often deer and hare will be flushed too, the dog must leave these alone and continue hunting forward to the flush point.

For picking up dogs have to sit steady while shot game is landing around them and only retrieve once sent, they must also be able to be stopped on a whistle and redirected to another retrieve if needed, for instance a wounded running bird would take priority to be retrived over a dead one already down.

if you do rough shooting/walked up the dog will be required to flush game, sit to that flush and wait until sent for the bird or rabbit after it's shot. Working gundogs are required to have discipline and steadiness first and foremost. They will workall day in all weathers so fitness is paramount too.

working sheepdogs are a joy to watch too, although I haven't had much to do with them so can't comment on those!

 

[maisie06]

thank you I understand, so they pick up birds. , theyreally work. I understand that. what i do not understqnd i s people in london having them as pets.

We have a few shoot members living in the city = The dogs work in the season and spend the summer being companions, if trained right it can be done! What goes wrong with working breeds is owners who don't/won't/can't channel their need for mental stimulation.