Working horses on hard arena surfaces...thoughts?

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Farma

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Just wondered what people thought of working horses on hard arena surfaces, our surface at home is pretty hard and I am always quite conscious of working hard in there over prolonged time. I am also fairly reluctant to jump in there very often.
I don't want to move yards as I love it there but definitely concerned of the long term effects, does anyone have any experiences?
 
i would move im afraid.

I wouldnt want to work my horses on the more heavily waxed surfaces day in day out as they ride so hard in the cold, sticky in the heat and dont allow any toe drag at all so if the horse leaves a toe at all they trip, and risk pulling something.

i prefer a softer/looser top layer which is why i think sand and rubber, or sand topped with some kind of fibre works well-the sand gives a firm base but the topping allows for drag and cushions against concussion.

i dont at all mind competing on very waxed surfaces but wouldnt want one for home.

some of the nicest indoor surfaces ive ridden on seem to be a mix of sharp sand, shavings, old fibres, earth, and hundreds of years of horse *****!

a hard but not sticky surface would be an improvement as minimal tripping/sticking but i still wouldnt want to use it long term.
 
The only experience I have is that some venues I compete at have a very firm surface, which my horse doesn't like, therefore stumbles and feels very awkward. Jumping on it is OK, but I won't do dressage on them as the uneveness in my horse shows...
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
i would move im afraid.

I wouldnt want to work my horses on the more heavily waxed surfaces day in day out as they ride so hard in the cold, sticky in the heat and dont allow any toe drag at all so if the horse leaves a toe at all they trip, and risk pulling something.

i prefer a softer/looser top layer which is why i think sand and rubber, or sand topped with some kind of fibre works well-the sand gives a firm base but the topping allows for drag and cushions against concussion.

i dont at all mind competing on very waxed surfaces but wouldnt want one for home.

some of the nicest indoor surfaces ive ridden on seem to be a mix of sharp sand, shavings, old fibres, earth, and hundreds of years of horse *****!

a hard but not sticky surface would be an improvement as minimal tripping/sticking but i still wouldnt want to use it long term.
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Well this is the problem if she catches a toe its pretty scary, quite a few horses at the yard have arthritis issues which could be entirely unrelated to the arena surface but still a concern which is worrying me.
 
Depends if the surface is 'hard' or just 'firm' IMHO.

A hard surface, on which you can hear the clip clip of the horse's footfalls, is bad. Did you see any of the Armas threads? He could be heard clip clopping on an apparently over compacted surface.

A 'firm' surface in comparison should allow the horse to leave slight imprints in the surface, much as it would do on an old springy turf, and that would be fine in my book.

A slightly arthritic horse would probably prefer a somewhat deeper surface, which would help reduce 'jar' and extend its abilty to work in the arena.

This is just my take on it, btw. It's horses for courses really.
 
Farma said:
Well this is the problem if she catches a toe its pretty scary, quite a few horses at the yard have arthritis issues which could be entirely unrelated to the arena surface but still a concern which is worrying me.
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if they wont top it with something, id be moving, i just couldnt keep working on it and worrying!
 
Farma said:
Just wondered what people thought of working horses on hard arena surfaces, our surface at home is pretty hard and I am always quite conscious of working hard in there over prolonged time. I am also fairly reluctant to jump in there very often.
I don't want to move yards as I love it there but definitely concerned of the long term effects, does anyone have any experiences?
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I wouldn't . . . but then we have to be very careful with Kal's front feet . . . however, knowing what I know now about the effects of concussion on foot/leg processes (particularly in front), I probably wouldn't anyway.

P
 
I wouldn't it would be like you jogging every day in normal shoes, your feet and ankles would be wrecked very quickly, trainers are foam layered and cushioned to add spring and absorb impact, like the sand and rubber does.
 
My horse tends to stumble on a firm/waxy surface and he managed to do a minor tweak of a check ligament when stumbling in a canter-walk transition. I'm now fussy about firm surfaces as well as very deep surfaces. To be honest it's a wonder I ride at all.
 
BeckyD said:
To be honest it's a wonder I ride at all.
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This ^^ !

It's been a worry for me too. We have sand and rubber but it's an old surface and started to feel pretty dull, not rock hard but not great compared to others I'd ridden on. I did start to worry about impact on feet and soundness, and whether prolonged work might bring on conditions like arthritis etc. Thankfully our gentle prodding has resulted in them putting more surface down - I'd def say something and if they don't do something about it, I would be thinking of moving on I'm afraid.
 
BeckyD said:
My horse tends to stumble on a firm/waxy surface and he managed to do a minor tweak of a check ligament when stumbling in a canter-walk transition. I'm now fussy about firm surfaces as well as very deep surfaces. To be honest it's a wonder I ride at all.
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Sorry, but that made me laugh out loud. :D
 
Can I just add my twopenneth?
I have a sand arena at home (just sand from the beach because it was cheap), I do roadwork every other day as a general rule (usually between 2 and 3 miles), and I can honestly say I have never had a day lameness from any of my horses. It's not just about the concussion of the surface, it's about the leg and foot conformation of the horse along with the work it does that creates/causes lameness. Obviously if I was paying for livery I would expect a decent surface in the school but I think it's unreasonable to say that one type of surface is more suitable than another. (FWIW the surface at Greenwich was a hit with the showjumpers but not with the eventers IIRC?)
 
Oh good grief . Unless the school also happens to be a carpark I cant see how it can be too hard. I have seen plenty of horses ruined on soft schools however.
 
Id not be happy with rock hard arena evdn tho mine arent shod. I have known a few arenas which felt really hard and compacted and were also uneven. One was very bad made from normal arena but they added the horses mucking out over it which became like concrete and also very dusty.
if they leave an imprint and its akin to turf id be ok.
 
I used to work my horse on a hard, even not much give surface ....... Until he developed psd on both hind legs and sprained one of his front collateral ligaments all at the same time .

I too used to think it was just over soft arenas used to cause the damage , now I know different.

I would move
 
I think if the horse is fit and doing road work and working on other surface and the surface is firm but not hard (see armas note above), at work we have 2 horses off for the winter one is possibly permanently broken due to the rubber on the school being too deep and allowing over extention of the joints thereby damaging tendons and ligaments.

I would prefer a firm surface but would not ride in it every day
 
You shd move. Right away. My yard has wonderful surfaces and new stables……!

I didn't notice your surface being too hard, but then I wasn't really looking at it! I wouldn't have thought that a hard-ish surface ought to be a problem. You'd canter and jump on hard-ish ground for example, but obviously you wouldn't on the road, so it's a question of degrees! Sorry, not much help.
 
It depends on your definition of hard and soft for a start, but personally I feel the risk is greater from a softer surface, which is likely to get deep quickly, than a firm one (bear in mind that at livery yards it is common for the arena to be seldom harrowed). Also on balance I would prefer arthritis to a soft tissue injury - although neither would obviously be best! In terms of soft tissue injuries, remember that foot balance plays a massive part in this, I don't think it's fair to always blame the surface. Although I can imagine that with bad foot balance the effects would be greater on a firmer surface than a softer one where the foot is cushioned, but that's speculation on my part.

We have sand/rubber at our yard but my horse definitely works better on a firm waxed surface, he's a big mover though so finds it much easier to balance on those types of surfaces.
 
I prefer a waxed type surface to a deep rubber one any day. Some rubber arenas I've ridden in are like riding in a ploughed field. I school in the field in summer, so the horses work on various types of firmness.

Twenty five years ago, the first yard that I worked at was the only yard in the area to have an arena. It was basically ash, and by today's standards would be very hard. Yet many many horses did very well on it over the years. I moved back to the area ten years ago, and many of the riding school horses and ponies were still alive that had spent their lives working on that surface. Some of them were well into their 30s and none of them had had issues..
 
I definitely wouldn't work a horse on it everyday. They do and will break eventually. Some surfaces nowadays are far too over waxed. We're so lucky to have the surface from 2012 Olympics in our Indoor and it's amazing, just the right amount of give!!! Everyone loves it. Then our outdoor is just silica sand and Clopf, and round pen silica sand and flexiride so the horses are worked on different surfaces.
 
couldnt agree more million dollar, have ridden on a few this year that were like toffee on a warm day and you could see horses left right and centre tripping/leaving a toe :( not good.

i really like my rubber surface, but its got a good firm base so its not too deep/holding.

one of the yards we clinic at has sand and clopf and that rides nicely too, not sticky, not holding, and the horse can move over it easily.
 
How would people define 'too hard' ? How far should the foot sink in or should the foot skim over the top?
With my surface the foot goes in to a depth of just under half an inch.. I have always wondered if its too hard
 
Like the guy I dealt with from Andrews Bowen said.... most of the top waxed surfaces are designed for competition centres where there will be heavy use for a competition, therefore it's designed not to move. That's what they are designed for, not everyday use.
 
I think a poor surface can be responsible for horses getting injuries especially irregular surfaces where it changes from firm to soft. You know what's it's like for us, if you hit a soft or hard patch of ground unexpectedly it jars up your back.
 
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