Working in an outline, HELP

[vicm2509]

I have been riding a horse for my friend for the past week. She is a 14hh arab x and doesnt work in an outline at all. I am not used to this as my horse is so relaxed through his back and neck and it only takes a little half halt to get him to listen.

Anyway this horse I am riding. The girl who owns her is also trying to get her to work on an outline by riding in side reins, which I refuse to do as it is forcing the horse into an outline and not getting the horse to accept contact. Her horse cribs so its neck muscles are obviously stronger underneath. She holds her head very high and will fight as soon as I try to take more contact on her reins. I have advised her to try the pessoa to build up the horses neck muscles in the right places. I have been trying to get this horse to lower her head and accept a light contact but I just dont know where to start. I try walking her on a loose rein to start and slowly taking up contact but it isnt working as the shorter my reins get the higher her head gets. Due to the fact she wont accept contact she also runs into her paces, her trot is so fast its crazy and if you ask for a canter she just goes mental. Half halts dont seem to work and pulling both reins just means you almost get knocked out by her head! Point her at a jump and she goes from walk to gallop and you have no way of slowing her down. Dont get me wrong she doesnt bolt and you can stop her if you want to but you cant controll the pace withing the gait or get her to relax.

So any tips? I would like it if I could give the horses owner some tips when she returns from her holiday and maybe we can work with the horse together.

Oh and this horse is 16yrs old and the girl (also 16) has had her for 10 years.

 

[frannieuk]

SOunds like a lot of work! I think I would go right back to basics, a good exercise to teach the horse half halt is to walk a 20m circle and halt at the same four points on it for several laps. Pretty soon the horse starts to anticipate the halt and will begin to cellect itself, as you progress you don't need to actually halt and end up doing it in trot and canter. I find this is a very effective tool for helping to get a horse used to rebalancing himself. I would also use the pessoa and aim to teach it to go long and low before even thinking of jumping.

 

[Sparklet]

She sounds like a very unhappy misunderstood horse. Best thing would be to get her back, saddle and teeth checked and then get some lessons with a qualified instructor so you learn to ride more from seat and leg.

Arabs are naturally more upright and this lady is 16 years old. To get her to work with more confidence and use her frame better will not happen overnight and if the has two riders both need to work together to give her some consistency otherwise she will just get confused.

 

[allijudd]

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She sounds like a very unhappy misunderstood horse. Best thing would be to get her back, saddle and teeth checked and then get some lessons with a qualified instructor so you learn to ride more from seat and leg.



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exaclty..she could just be avading the bit having had harsh handlers before....rule out any pain first......then have a look at her bit, it may just not suit her....if she doesnt like it at the moemt i wouldnt try to get her on a contact at all i would try to work her in a long outline on vey long reins(safley and in an enclosed area) so she does fight in front but using your legs try to get her going in that respect. Use you seat and legs to control her...

 

[vicm2509]

Thank you. I have lessons on my own horse but as this is not my horse I wont be having lessons on it. The girl who owns her is not from a very well off family and I doubt her parents would pay for her to have lessons. The long and low is what I am trying to achieve at the moment. I have been hacking her out along routes she knows and generally just trying to relax her and get her to understand I am on her side and not trying to fight her but want to work with her.

Her owner says she hates the menage, which is not really a good attitude to start with I know, but I want to help her understand her horse a bit more. I let her ride my horse last week and she rode him really nicely so I know she can ride as my horse is one of those horses you have to ride properly (if you know what I mean).

So as she has had this horse for 10 years she has obviously been riding it from the age of 6. At that age you are not bothered about the horse working in an outline (well most 6yr olds arnt anyway) so she has proberbly never even been asked to before so is not understanding my aids.

I ride through my seat anyway (well I think I do). I am generally one to keep my hands as still and soft as possible.

I feel I do need to start from scratch. I am just hoping her owner will work with me, she does seem like she really wants to learn.

Oh and I havent been jumping her. I jumped her once a few weeks ago as her owner wanted to make sure I could ride her before she left her in my care.

Other people on the yard cant belive I have managed to hack her out as they think she is mental. But she isnt at all, just a bit unresponsive.

 

[vicm2509]

Oh and she had her teeth done last month. I doubt her parents will pay to have her back checked (they are £200 behind with stable rent atm) although this pony has always been like this so I think it is just lack of schooling.

She is currently ridden in a snaffle with to gadgets. And saddle seems to fit well although not been checked by saddler, but I have ridden her bareback and she is just the same.

Do you think it is worth the effort or do you think this pony will be too stuck in its ways?

 

[allijudd]

i would take the gadjets off..if you have a parelli or natural headcollar i would also put that on over the bridle with reins fron the loop at the bottom..that way you have control when you need it...

its is worth the effort..

roman is an angel but you do have to ride him appropritely(sp!) he tends to exagerate all your bad points for example if you are stiff one side he is....if you stay too long out of the saddle he misbehaves....but if you ride him deep he will do anything you ask.....

 

[vicm2509]

Sorry, my post was supposd to say with NO gadgets. She is in a snaffle with a plain bridle.

 

[allijudd]

silly idea really but what sort of snaffle..i have found that thinner snaffle work better with finer horses and thicker snaffle work better with larger horses with larger spaces in the mouth.....is it a happy mouth?

 

[the watcher]

I am a big fan of the Pessoa or similar to encourage collection and engagement from the back too. For a softer poll and neck I would be asking laterally, start with carrot exercises on the ground to bend her round and then work together to use the same exercise mounted with rein pressure to support, and progess to just the rein, this will take some time. She may then arrive at a softer head and neck without being fixed there, when ever she goes up then encourage her back down with lateral movement.
As said, it is important you both work in the same way, and always ask her to work quietly, and don't try to progress to the next pace until this is mastered at standstill and walk. It could take a long time!
I would also consider a calmer or similar to take the edge off the cribbing

 

[Claireg9]

Ok this sounds so much like my little baby, and she has come on leaps and bounds since i have been having lessons as i had never come across this problem before. Firstly in walk try holding your hands out to the side call it wide arms, dont pull back just keep an even hold and use your leg to make the horse move forward, the horse shouldnt get to fizzy as it will feel more free with the contact you have taken up, this should encourage the horse to walk forward tracking up and also allow the horse freedom to stretch its neck slightly and almost makes them want to put there head into a better position.
Next once she has got this (Your arms and legs will ache by now) Ask her for trott, take up the same stance, wide arms lots of leg, make sure your not kicking as such now, just squeezing, if she goes fizzy just ignore her and carry on with the same commands, try not to get angry.. again eventually she'll start to work in an outline, to stop them gettin bored ride shallow loops, 10 metre circles, serpentines, figure of eights etc etc, put poles on the floor to get the pony to look down more again encouraging her to work long and low.
This i have been doing for about 6 months now, never did any jumping for the forst 3 months and cantering didnt come until 2 months, cantering is hard and ours is still not perfect but she is accepting contact now and is allowing me to use my leg without sending her into a frenzy. It all takes time but this really does work, i can not reccomend wide arms enough.
Ow and if she relaxes in an outline gradually move your arms in, as soon as she tense through her back go wide again, she'll soon learn its nicer to work in an outline!
Hope this helps x

 

[Haflinger]

10 metre circles. If she is strong these help her to both listen and to calm down a bit.
If you want PM me for the diagram of what you do. It was recommended by my instructor