Working Livery- what would you expect from this?

charlie76

charlie76

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Just wondering? We have a couple of horses on working livery and the owners, I feel, are being a little difficult at the moment. They pay approx £40 per week and for this get the following:
Horses ridden by half decent riders
Tack cleaned weekly
Horses kept trimmed and clipped
Shoeing organised
Stabled in winter inc hay and bedding
Feed costs covered
Hay costs covered
Hay in field when needed
Groomed
Bought in/turned out
Medical issues dealt with

They pay for insurance, vets bills and shoes

From what I can gather, many places where horses are on working livery state when the horse is being used and then the owner works round that but these owners are demanding use of the horse in the busiest times meaning we aren't getting much use of them at all.
On Sunday, with no warning one owner decided that her horse was now on 2 weeks holiday! When we said we needed a little notice we were made to feel like we were being difficult.

I am in a quandry as to what to do and whether its really worth the effort of having them.
At the moment we are getting very little use out of them.
 
I hate to say this but - what did you put in the contract when you made the agreement with the owners?

If nothing then may I suggest you call a meeting with the owners and thrash out exactly what is and isn't expected on both sides.
 
my horse used to be on working livery... we had a book with all rides in it, if i wanted to ride my horse then i put my name on the ride i wanted. Could be used as and when by the RS around that. I would not however be very happy if i had been dictated to when i could ride my horse.
 
Can you talk to the owners to see if you can work out a sensible arrangement.
I don't think its fair to expect the owner to work entirely round you, but equally you need to get reasonable use of the horse to make it worth your while. It sounds like you need a written agreement stating how much use you'll get of the horse and notice for the owner riding, resting horse etc. If people don't want to sign up to it then working livery is obviously not for them.
 
They have a contract which states that we can use the horse for a reasonable amount of hours per week.
We don't dictate when the horse is used but at the moment we are hardly able to use them at all.
 
It does sound like the owners are taking the situation for granted as what you are offering in terms of their care for the money your asking seems very good.
My boy is used in the RS, if I want to ride him on lesson days then I have to book him and then his amount of work is adjusted accordingly and we pay a bit more than that a week atm and I groom, tack clean and buy feed myself.
 
unacceptable behavior on the owners part, my horse is on working livery, if we want to use him we phone up and ask when he is being used. They tell us and then we fit our riding around. As for a holiday off work, we would be told e are moved to full livery pricing for 2 weeks.

Also we have a contract where they cannot use Pickle on monday/tuesday or saturday/sunday after 2pm. Also the agreement says he can only be used to 2hours a day maximum
 
I think normally working livery works best if people have set days like a share eg the RS has one weekend day and the owner the other and then the week days split - that way everyone knows who can use the horse and when.

If the owner wants to use the horse on other days not allocated to them they either swap the day with another day eg if normally RS uses horse on Sat but owner wants to take horse to show then swap so RS can use horse on Sun. A good contract will also state amount of hours RS can use horse eg up to 8 hours a week.

If the owner wants to give the horse a holiday or wants the horse say for whole week as is on holiday etc then they either go on to DIY or full livery rate.

The slightly tricky situation arises if the horse needs to be off work due to injury - who then pays for vets bills etc if the horse is injured during a lesson - does the horse go on full livery whilst recovering?
 
My local RS does working livery (in fact I think most of the school horses are WLs). The arrangement is more or less that suggested by Hullabaloo; the owners have a certain amount of time per day for use of their horse and the RS has right of reasonable use outside that (in practice they are pretty good about juggling this time off peak but weekends the rule is more strictly enforced). Like Wench's situation, owners specify when they are going to ride in advance, and things like holidays are similarly pre-booked.

If an owner wants extra time e.g. for a show, I believe the owner pays some compensation for loss of use (again in practice I think this is more strictly followed at peak time like weekends than off peak). Although the thoughts of extra payment for use of your own horse does stick in the throat a bit, it does seem to me to be fair as the stables are losing the money they had factored in when setting the working livery charge (at my RS the difference between WL and full is quite sizeable).

On the facts as presented I do think your owners are being a bit unreasonable, but it does boil down to a question of expectations - I think you need to come to a more specific agreement than you have, covering use, holidays etc. As Hullabaloo says, it may be that the practicalities of working livery are not really what your owners want.
 
I used to have a ridiculously good deal - for £25 a week (6 years ago but still waaay too cheap) I had what you advertise but on grass livery (but stable and bedding available at no extra cost if needs box rest or night before a show), and I got to ride whenever and take him to a show whenever - only reason owner got narky with me or the other working liveries was if we didn't give much notice for going to a show (fair enough, that happened when I hadn't been there long and hadn't given it a second thought) or if we rode when the horses had really had enough work for the day (only weekends). I went one day on the weekend and either rode or just spent some time with him, depending on how much work he had done; but one at least one of the two weekend days he would have been ok to ride. Likewise with pony club camp, owner encouraged us to do things with our horses, but just needed a bit of notice to rearrange lessons. In general it worked out incredibly well, my horse got exercised but not worn out and didn't get "broken" by bad riders as they were careful to match riders to him.

Have a look at Reaseheath college, they often advertise for working liveries, and I think they stipulate things quite specifically - horse had up to X hours a day work, is available on X day at weekend for owner, and has X day off in the week etc etc.

If I were you I'd call a yard meeting and get their feedback on what they want, and you put across to them what you need (be reasonable) - like if they want to ride when horse is usually on a lesson then ring ahead and if you can you'll swap around to make the horse free and not tired, but ask them to be reasonable about it and not make a habit of it. And to give you a week's notice or more if they want to take the horse away or out of work (and work out how much you want to charge if you're not having use of the horse - I'd say 1 week don't bother but 2 is taking the P IMO!)

Might be worth keeping a yard diary where you put in where you want the horses and the owners will put in when they want to ride, and if it clashes you have to talk? Hopefully if everyone is organised and "books" events & horse's hols in advance that could work.

Its a shame that it sounds like you will have to bring in specific rules and be quite specific and strict, as I think ours worked very well because all parties were quite laid back - If I wanted to ride at a time I didn't usually, I just rang ahead to check if he was being used, and if they had intended to use him but could use another, they were so accommodating. both I and YO occasionally ptu our foot down - things like I turned up and he was ready for a lesson despite needing days off due to a freezebrand, or us liveries forgetting to tell her about a show until the day before (she didn't say don't go, just got annoyed that she had to cancel lessons at the last minute, which is understandable).

Good luck, I hope you get it sorted without too much hassle.
 
I think having a sit down with a cup of tea and thrashing out exactly what is and isn't expected from both sides rather than using a 'reasonable number of hours' would help a good deal. With stricter terms it is easier to set boundaries and there is less of a grey area for owner to get stroppy about
 
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