Working Livery- what's everyone's thoughts? (Bit long, sorry!)

[FigJam]

Good morning all.

I am currently looking to buy a horse and move her to livery in West Lothian. However, I have been finding it hard to find suitable livery within my budget and that has a space- everywhere seems full!

I've come across Oatridge College (Scottish National Equestrian Centre, recently had millions spend on the most amazing facilities- See here for a little info! )

They offer working livery where the horses are in work 2hrs max per day for the college students as part of their courses. A mixture of flat work, jumping, long reining, lunging, hacking etc.

Would you be happy putting your horse on working livery along these lines? The stable manager I spoke to sounded very knowledgable and pernickity about how things were done (which is good!) and I am having a meeting with her to discuss it further next week.

It sounds like a great deal as the deal they offer means I can keep her very close to my house (5mins away), I get full use of the facilities (which look amazing!) and she would be getting kept fit, schooled and looked after under surpervision!

However, someone has mentioned they wouldn't be keen letting "any old rider" on their horse as they may be too novicy and "ruin" her. I thought that the fact they're always in lessons (and so supervised) and on equine courses (so should have a basic knowledge of and love for horses) that they wouldn't really be equivalent to your normal "riding school" riders?

So any opinions either good or bad appreciated to help me mull it over! Thanks!

 

[AmyMay]

Well personally it wouldn't be for me. However, quite a few people seem to do it with great success.

 

[annaellie]

I had a mare on working livery at Hartpury college when I was a student there the horse was very well looked after and all the conditions were kept to But I have known places were they promise this and that and the horse gets worked into the ground etc so. I would try a trial period to see how it goes and make sure you get a contract stating when you can use the horse how many hours the horse worked for etc. Good luck

 

[Tierra]

I'd personally never consider working livery at all. I spend a lot of money on my horse and make a lot of sacrifices to keep him and i therefore expect to have some control over who rides him.

My boy is very much a one person horse and I think having lots of different riders can unsettle some horses and inhibit the bonding process with their owner.

2 hours a day work is a fair amount - it's more than our grand prix dressage horses are in - so you also have to consider how much riding YOU would then get to do - are you in any control over which two hours she is used for? Whilst in the week it may not be such an issue if you're working - weekends could be different. Also, depending on the style of lessons going on, its possible your mare will just slip into the whole riding school mentality.

It's all well and good them saying that they don't let just anyone ride their horses but it's very easy to say that. You mention that she'd be getting "schooled" but I wouldnt assume that the riders using her would be of a standard to actually progress her schooling.

If cost is an issue, wouldnt DIY be an option instead?

 

[FigJam]

One of the things the stable manager was very adamant about was that they were worked a MAX of 2hrs a day and I'd get a schedule of her workload for the next month in advance.

They have a vet come out every fortnight to give them a wee check over and make sure everything's fine.

I know it's easy for them to promise all this and not do it, so am keeping my eyes open and am having the small print posted out to me to read over. I would definitely be making sure there's an initial trial period that I can call a halt to if I feel the need and will check how long you're tied in to any contract.

I'm also going to ask her for an "average" daily schedule for the horses (e.g. feeding, turnout) and will keep a close eye, especially at the start, to make sure she seems happy and they are sticking to their word.

They get three months off over the summer (when students go home for hols) and she said I am free to do as I like with her- can keep her there on full livery, take her on hol to another yard for three months, loan here out etc. (I'd just enjoy the summer riding to be honest!)

Seems a good deal for me and the fact I'd have all those amazing facilities on my doorstep is making it very tempting!

 

[filly190]

My horse's previous owners used to send her to an equestrian college over the winter months.

When I got her, which was straight from the college, I found her to be very jaded and sick of being schooled. I spent the next year simply hacking to freshen her up, because she had become brain dead.

For your own horse, I personally dont think it is a good idea because of how my mare came back. She was fit and in perfect condition, wonderfully mannered but all the spark had left her. She had become a robot, doing everything pefectly and it was very sad.

Two hours a day is an awful lot, if you were riding your horse, I dont think you would be schooling to that extent everyday.

The facilities sound wonderful, but the cost to your horse is high. Think of the wear and tear to the joints, horses mental state, your tack etc.

Also your horse would not be your own. What about when you finish work and want to go out on a long hack and you know your horse has already done two hours of students.

What about when they are telling you what your horse needs etc and you cant do everything your own way?

Personally I could not bare to have anyone else ride my horse and knowing how Belle came back and how she had switched off to life and become a bit of a riding school nag I would not advice anyone to do this.

Belle is now 21 and a happy horse, but it has been a long road, she was such a robot when I got her, she did'nt even whinny for her bucket. It was like her spirit had been broken. Now she is happy and does everything normally and since I have had her, no one but me has been allowed on her back.

 

[AG18]

We put one of our young horses into exactly this type of working livery (with college pupils). Some had never ridden before, some were more experienced. He got great day to day care, was very well behaved, and one of the pupils fell in love with him so much that she bought him when I moved to London and couldn't keep him. It did him so much good to be there, I don't think it is suitable for every horse (ie my current horse would go crazy on working livery). But the set up they are offering sounds really good, so I would go for it and see how it goes.

 

[teapot]

Some of the best horses I've ever ridden have been the ones that were on working livery.

I've got mixed views on it as have known horses who have thrived and improved by being ridden more than once a day/different people etc but yet have seen horses where they really needed just one person to take them onwards and upwards.

Having worked at a yard for 3yrs where the majority of horses/ponies were working liveries,it can work if the yard is run properly. Horses' workload was very varied, always hacking out, not just nose to tail in the school, and had maximum limits of hours they were used.

And I don't think I've ever heard good things about working livery at a college. So if I had to choose, I'd rather put a horse on WL at a small yard then at a college. And turnout would be a big issue - all the WL's I know are out 24/7 for example

 

[annaellie]

in my experance the college looked after my mare excellent and if I ever needed to put another horse on working livery due to some reason am not a fan of working liv by the way I just think for some horses its an option for the owner I would not hesitate in contacting them about taking the horse on working liv. But I found the smaller yds were the worst and never consider putting a horse on WL on a small yd but thats not saying there none out there that are very good I just not come across them

 

[Sparklet]

I live across the road to an Agricultural college and we often have students in our livery yard because the college is pretty expensive, even working livery. You do get some competent riders, however in my experience most of them have either riding school only experience or are self taught horse owners who have never had formal tuition. Sadly the latter bunch are the most dangerous because they are of the kick, whip, thump mentaility who describe the horses they ride as dangerous, crazy, mad beasts out to get the rider.

They are not all like this but a college attracts all sorts and all sorts will be riding your horse.

 

[FigJam]

I'm so torn, I really don't know what to do.

I work full time and I am what most folk would call a "happy hacker". In the summer I hack out 90% of the time and during the winter when I am forced to school, it's only for 30-40mins once or twice during the week, then enjoying hacks again at the weekend during daylight hours.

I do a little bit of jumping when I pluck up the courage, but I've never competed in my life. I would maybe like to give it a little go, but I ride for fun and nothing very adventurous really!

I guess I really can't predict how the horse would react to the environment- as some have said she may love being in regular work, a bit of variety (work and people!) however, she may not like it.

I'll meet with them and have a good nosey about and see what my gut instinct is. She's 14 and loves getting out and doing stuff.

They are not worked weekends, so obviously I'd give her one of those as a day off and the other she'd be all mine.

As for the doing things my way, I'd have to ask them what input I'd have vs. their's regarding feeding, rugging etc. However, I am in no way the most experienced horsey person and I'd like to think that the staff there would have a lot of experience that I could learn from, same way I do more experienced livery staff and owners at the moment.

 

[JessPickle]

Well pickle is on working livery at a RS he also has a max of 2 hours a day but rarely does that much

i find it great, it means when I am holiday I dont need to organise any extra riding. Pickle is a very able horse who has people who are learning to ride to people who have been riding for years. I have no problem with people riding him, I have only ever had one problem and that was only because some person decided to swap horses with someone without asking instructors permission if you have any questions just pm me

jess

 

[Foxford]

I was looking this up when considering buying a horse, and working livery was far cheaper even than DIY and obviously you get great facilities. I deceided to get a horse on part-loan instead, but what you have described sounds great, and 5 mins down the road is ideal! I would go for it and see what happens. If it doesn't work out you can always find somewhere else!

 

[ExRacers]

Oatridge have a very good reputation & with the new facilities being completed it will be a top centre. There is no way 'any old rider' will be on your horse.

I think from what you are saying it could well be the ideal situation for you and on the basis of nothing ventured nothing gained why not give it a go ?? You can always move if you don't like it.

 

[ArleyMoss]

Ok, here's the devils view on working livery.

Working Liv is NOT for every horse and rider, and many a place clearly over work the working liv horses in order to save their horses, which will be for sale as they always are.

Horses aren't cheap, and if you're buying a horse that's dearer than your normal hack type thing, then I would stay away!

Some horses just don't like more than one rider, they like to know where they leg is, and shoot off if it's somewhere different.

We ourselves have it written in the contract we can only use your horse for a max of 1 & half hrs a day, so 2hrs isn't far off.

So working Liv, is good if a) they don't over use and back it up with a contract b) other horse owners are happy c) different type of lessons to keep the mind alive d) the owner/managers are nice people willing to help.

I hope this helps

 

[KatB]

From what you have said, I would give it a go but have something on stand by if it doesnt suit your horse! From what you have said though, I think it may well suit you re time restrictions and working arrangements for your mare! Good luck with it! I think itmay be the perfect solution for you....

 

[Tempi]

absolutly not, id never in a million years let some tom dick or harry get on my horse.......Bloss came from a riding school and when she was there she was ridden by all sorts, it was awful. She was so badly schooled it was unreal, now shes competing medium level dressage with me..........your horse would get ruined imo..........

but it does depend what you do with your horse anyways, do you compete in a certain discpline eg affliate? If you do then id say its a definate no, if you dont and you just use your horse for hacking, bit of schooling and the odd local competition then i probably would think about it.

 

[Super_Kat]

Would I put my horse out on working livery?

In a nutshell.......Not a f*cking chance!

 

[ArleyMoss]

[ QUOTE ]

but it does depend what you do with your horse anyways, do you compete in a certain discpline eg affliate? If you do then id say its a definate no, if you dont and you just use your horse for hacking, bit of schooling and the odd local competition then i probably would think about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree with this

BTW sound like a poor riding school, we aren't all the same, I promise!!

 

[Tapir]

I had my horse at working livery at Warwickshire College while I was a student there. He was very green when I took him and really came on while he was there. A combination of the facilities and regular schooling worked wonders.
The horses were very well looked after and as my horse was a baby arab he only got the lighter, better riders on him.
I would definately say give it a go. I was so spoilt with the facilities that I am really struggling to find an acceptable livery yard now!

 

[teapot]

It does REALLY depend on what sort of yard it is - and the standards that they keep. My yard prides itself on the working liveries coming first - always schooled by the instructors if need be. Matched to their riders very well and that's after a good 6 weeks of being just ridden and assessed by the staff to check the horse is suitable for WL

There are good yards/colleges out there but it's finding them

 

[miller]

Agree with Crimbo Pud! Had my first pony on working livery and I'd rather give my horses away to a friend than do that again

Agreement was no more than 2 hrs a day, no rider heavier than 8 stone

Pony was barely worked in the week then wanted her for 6hrs a day on sat/sun (cos it evened out to 2hrs a day) could never ride her at weekends (I was at school at time) had to 'book her out' for a show 6 weeks in advance all for a reduction of £12 a week from full livery.

Pony also got injured in a lesson - back problem - after rider who was later weighed when my dad complained at 12.5 stone!

 

[Petrie]

Perhaps you should go for a few lessons there, then you will really see how the horses are kept, and you will get an idea of what life will be like for your horse, and what she might end up being like.

It could be great for you, it just depends what you expect to get out of your horse. If you want to hack most of the time, then you will be the one to give your horse a break from schooling and lessons, which could work quite well.

The horse could well end up being a schoolmaster for you to learn from, which is brilliant, but you can't really expect to build up a strong bond with it when lots of other people are riding it.

It just depends what your ambitions are. If you want to compete, then I think you need a strong bond to get the best out of the horse. But if it's hacking and lessons with an instructor, it could work well.

 

[Weezy]

Good lord you lot have had some experiences!

Personally working livery, in a good yard, can be great ! I have always had my horses on working livery in Spain and not one was ruined (these were top notch yards that I worked at/managed) - I would certainly never dismiss this option out of hand and those facilities look fantastic!

BTW my horses were ALL competitive SJers!!

 

[FigJam]

Just using quick reply as a general thank you to all who have posted replies! I really appreciate all points of view and will be having a good long think about it all.

The stable manager is posting me out a copy of their "loan agreement" so I can read all the small print before meeting her and will be able to ask questions. This seems very good, up front and honest. Also, as mentioned, it gives me a contract to hold them to.

ExRacers: Nice to hear a local opinion and a good one at that! As a centre naming themselves the "Scottish National Equestrian Centre", it can only be in their best interests to look after the horses well and make sure they are not burnt out- wouldn't do their reputation much good!

I will make a point of really looking at their current working liveries when looking at the yard to see how they look. The stable manager does seem to run a tight ship and know what she's talking about.

Even little things like she told me each horse has their own individual grooming kit that they will provide and ensure it's only used for her, will provide poly pads/numnahs for each horse (again, indivudual use), boot or bandage to my requests (e.g. brushing boots at all times, or boots only for jumping).

As a few have said, if I don't feel happy after the trial period, I can move her. Would hate that to be the case though as a) I'd really like it to work! (but am trying hard to look at all angles, honest!) and b) would hate to unsettle her after only a short time there.

 

[FigJam]

[If] you just use your horse for hacking, bit of schooling and the odd local competition then i probably would think about it.

This is it though, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I am a happy hacker who does schooling because I feel guilty about having not done it in ages and jumps a little (1m and I think I'm the next Whittaker!) for fun.

I wouldn't have thought 2hrs per day (again max, not necessarily going to happen day in day out) isn't a huge amount for a horse to do?

The stable manager (can I just type SM to make life easier?!) also said they would spend time gradually bringing her up to the level of fitness required with a tailored fittening programme and taking the time to assess her fully.

I get the feeling it's a different environment to your "horror story" basic riding school. Will know better once I've had a nosey around!

 

[Theresa_F]

Do you have the option to find a good sharer?

That may be the solution for you and you would have more control over what happens with your horse.

I personally wouldn't use working livery but there again, for some horses and people it can be a viable solution.

 

[amage]

tbh i wouldn't describe this as working livery in that it is not a ridin school you are talking about. if the equine colleges there are anything like they are here i would have no qualms about it if the situation suited me. the trainers who are usually involved in these colleges are generally superb as is the level of care. they are not a business per se so the horse is an educational tool not a commodity. a friend of mine did an equine course here and brought her horse. she found the standards so good and high she has loaned her horse to them while she is in australia for a year. go and have a look round and see what you think yourself. there are alot of horror stories on here but they all seem to relate to riding schools not equine colleges

 

[Tempi]

it was in no way a poor riding school, its an extremely well known one. however they cant say that a certain person cant ride such a horse just because they cant get it on the bit, or cant school it properly or whatever, everyone has to start somewhere. It was just unfortunate that Bloss was on working livery there also and was getting ruined by lots of different riders riding her all the time, and like i think Sparklet wrote they very often kick, flap and whack and have no previoius horse experience or have ever had a proper lesson until they come to the place where they are training for whatever reason.

 

[Dovorian]

I have a bit of personal experience my chap was at a college for 9months while I worked away. It seemed wondersul but his schooling was really messed up - jumping seemed to be their interest. The other thing to consider is that College's do not only have expd riders, they have some real novices and 'uneducated' riders. If like me you have a decent and genuine schoolmaster they will be popular. I wouldn't do it again and in fact when faced with a similar work situation, I sold my horse.