Working over his back - please help

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vicm2509

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Overall Baron works quite nicely, we get nice comments in our dressage tests BUT they always say he could work more over his back, this comment crops up almost every time.

So what can I do to help with this? And by looking at the pics below do you think this is a major issue or just a comment?

We do loads and loads of transitions when schooling including lots of direct transitions. Also I so lots of lateral work incuding leg yield, shoulder in, travers *sp, and all the other basic ones. I also lunge him in the pessoa once or twice a week. He is quite long backed and when I got him he was very on the fore hand but isnt and more.

In my lessons we work a lot on the canter getting him to shorten and lengthen strides and do lots of circles sipraling in and out again. My instructor also makes me change his outline throughout so he works longer and lower and then gets him to shorten his neck into a rounder outline. In canter he sometimes leans into one hand but I know how to correct this with give and take.

So is there anything else I can do to improve? And if he was working more over his back what should he look like? I seem to have trouble understanding when hes working over his back. Does this just mean he had his hind legs more underneath him and is working in more of a natrual outline?

Anyway, what do you think?

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And a canter pic...not me riding him so no comments on rider please in this pic (this pic also demonstrates the leaning I was talking about)
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i think your doing pretty much the right thing but if mine i would be concentrating on riding him alot more forwards as it looks like hes only just tracking up in trot. also make sure you always ride forward after your lateral work as this can make them stuffy, even if its a quick burst of canter just to open him up. So lots of trasitions within the pace, medium trot on 20m circles etc to keep him balanced and lots of walk to canter transitions to get him sat up on his backend. It all takes time but i'm sure he'll get there in the end!
 
Also does he hollow at any point? That is normally when they say if more thru would work better. Also about consistant contact.
Sounds like your doing the right school moves! Do u get tense during the test?
 
Firstly - He looks yum!

Secondly - I suspect they mean that although he presents a nice picture, he isn't active enough behind? Guess they are wanting him to push from behind more. That's as much as I can tell from the photos anyway. Just make sure that you are encouraging him to push up rather than forwards to get his bum more engaged. Shoulder-in helps with my big TB to get him engaged. I do it on straight bits of road on hacks as well for consistency.

But the exercises you are doing are bang on for achieving that so keep up the good work.
 
Your prediciment sounds very similar to mine. Although Thumper is a lot more 'peacocky' in the way he carries himself. Which really needs work.

I suspect what they are wanting to see is that the horse is really working over his back. That the point between the top of his tail and his wither is up, soft and stretching forward. Not that he is just making a nice shape with his head and the top of his neck.

The transitions will help, as will the travers, but I would have thought that lots of lovely long and low work, in a slow rythmic trot would really help.

I wonder what PG would suggest on this one. Would love to her her views.
 
Hi

He looks like a very nice, honest horse! and looks like a lovely horse to work with and has lots of potential!-

I would say that he needs to stretch his neck down more so that he's a little looser thru the neck and bringing his hocks underneath him- he looks like a big chap so it won't happen overnight- I would try to encourage him to try to carry himself a bit more and "give" to you.

You could try to have a firmer contact( but soft when he's soft), - on the more established horses I will ride with my hands more up and together but on the younger one that need more stretch thru the neck(one of mine is like this) - I will ride with my hands lower and wider to encourage more flexion. You are definately doing all the right exercises with the leg yielding and spiralling in and out etc, lots of transitions.

Although it is more correct to stretch them out at the start of the schooling session and then work them up and together- have you tried doing the opposite?- you may find that he won't lean so much and then he will really stretch over back and neck when you have him on a longer looser rein- sounds silly, I know!- but I have one who needs to work up together before you stretch him as otherwise he would want me to pick his head up off the floor and he's to big for that!!

I have also found that keeping my position really strong and shoulders back and not allowing my horse to change my position and try to pull me forwards, helps with lightening the forehand! When he's on a shorter rein, I would really ride him forwards and " up" and make him give so he's softer in the contact and using himself-

Best of luck though you are doing a good job with him!
 
Quite a few positive comments there, thanks guys
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He can sometimes be a little lazy behind and I will give him a tap but I cant do this in a test as he hates the whip and will hollow for a second when I do it.

I work him long and low at the begining to warm him up and then will often do it in the middle of a session then again before I cool him down. He always gets good marks for his free work so I suspect he is working right somewhere
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I will try to move him a bit more forward after lateral work. We do reinback to canter and often turn about the forehand in trot. I also leg yield in canter aswell as walk and trot which really does help engage him.

He is big, hes 16.3 and his long back doesnt help, hes in 7ft rugs
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He is a lot more together than he was and I try hard to shorten his canter paces (aswell as lengthen them) as this seems to get him really engaged and get his back legs really underneath him.

Sorry if I havent replied to all the comments but they are all so spot on and I have taken them all on board
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Oh and I find it extreamly hard to get him to do medium trot. He extends slightly more but usually breaks into canter. I have been practicing quite a bit on hacks as he tends to be more forward.

Does this stem down to the same problem? That he is not working over his back enough?
 
For Medium you need them forward with the hocks coming underneath him and using his back and carrying you- if he's struggling with this he will find it difficult- but dont worry he will get there- you could start by asking for a few steps of medium on a circle or leg yield down the 3/4 line - as soon as you hit the track ask for a bit of inside flexion, then push him up and forward into medium for just a couple of strides- the leg yielding beforehand will help keep his hocks under him so that he can spring off them and work thru his back and carry you. you can then bring him back and then ask again so that you are varying his pace. gd luck!
 
Oh thanks for that. On my novice test (ive only done one so far) although I got 5th which I was made up with, i got a 'no medium strides shown' comment for the medium trot
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I want to start doing novice properly at the begining of the winter season so I need to get some sort of medium trot established.

I think this whole over the back thing is going to be the main focus of my lessons for a while now, I will discuss all the advice given with my instructor and hopefully we will get somewhere.
 
Oh your horse sounds like mine! He's 17HH ands takes a 7ft3 rug, and I have had to work so hard to get him working up and through. A great exercise is the spiralling in and out of circles. leg yield in and out, and then break it down to a teeny circle almost so that you're pirouetting (first in walk, then trot) - this REALLY helps to bring their hocks right underneath them.

As for the medium trot, Henry and I are practicing this right now. He sometimes breaks to canter as well, but lots of half halts and leg seems to work - keep trying until he gets the message, it can be confusing for them! I do working trot along the short sides then push to medium off the corner so you have the advantage of the bend to start with! You want him to open his shoulder and power through from behind. Good luck!

BTW - your horse is a stunner!!
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