Working Plummers?

katielou said:
Yeah i have seen this used Horrible!
They are not really creating typical seperation anxiety they are just using total solitary confinement as a way to train.
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Strange u would think this to go the exact opposite, unless the dog was previously lavished with attention then it was withdrawn and this method then used:confused:
 
CAYLA said:
People create it by spending too much time with their dog instead of creating a routine by which to help/prepare them better to cope with and feel more secure in their own company/left alone.............or do u mean I and S telling u summit:confused:
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no you muppet as a method of training! :rolleyes:
 
Christmas_Crackers said:
Not done it myself (not that mean) but from what I understand they shut them up with no company and they only see people at meal times and when working. They are basically that starved of company that they will do anything for a friendly pat :( People think the dogs aren't abused because they're always so friendly and 'happy' but they are that way for a reason :(
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This is not uncommon to a lot of gun dogs :( You only have to watch any of the basic gundog training videos to realise that the pups are in a kennel 23.5 hrs of the day and only let out to work/train - its no wonder they are wholly dedicated to the trainer. Fortunately most of us are not like that - and that is often the difference between field triallers and us with "proper" working dogs who we rely on to think for themselves as opposed to directing them with a white hankie!!
 
CAYLA said:
Well by KLH reply I get that, but still its wierd:confused:
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Yea it is weird...thats why I was asking!
I'm struggling to comprehend why someone that thought this was a good method of training would be followed in any way. Why would he be a good person to create a decent breed!?!
 
Ravenwood said:
This is not uncommon to a lot of gun dogs :( You only have to watch any of the basic gundog training videos to realise that the pups are in a kennel 23.5 hrs of the day and only let out to work/train - its no wonder they are wholly dedicated to the trainer. Fortunately most of us are not like that - and that is often the difference between field triallers and us with "proper" working dogs who we rely on to think for themselves as opposed to directing them with a white hankie!!
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I was thinking that actually...and they are usually in the house as pups to form 'normal' bonding and then get turfed out when a bit older.
 
Maesfen said:
One reason why OH and I don't really have many good words to say about Plummer, he had a lot of dubious methods that you wouldn't see a decent terrier man use at all and his main quest was beating tallies whatever it cost.
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Im def learning more by your replies, we do have a house full of plummer books as OH had read them all and takes a keen interest but also sort of mimics what u sat too.
 
Thing is C, his terriers were bought by lots of lads (and men) who thought they were hard and wanted their dogs to be too; (a bit similar to the bad name Staffies have in some quarters I suppose.) It was the case that those who shout loudest are heard, sometimes by the wrong sort but they don't always have the sharpest pencils in the box. Word soon got round about them and it was very rare for genuine terrier men to bother with his type at all, it was more the poachers/townies (I'm originally one, it's a geographical term, not derogatory!) that had them as a status symbol so they were very easy to influence.
 
Thats interesting Maesfen. I have to say I know lots of terriermen and none of them have plummers, I know lots of ratting packs, not a plummer amongst them. Had wondered why. I'm not sure I have ever clapped eyes on a plummer in RL, they certainly aren't common place round here.
 
Vizslak said:
Thats interesting Maesfen. I have to say I know lots of terriermen and none of them have plummers, I know lots of ratting packs, not a plummer amongst them. Had wondered why. I'm not sure I have ever clapped eyes on a plummer in RL, they certainly aren't common place round here.
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I've not seen a working plummer either. I have had 4 come through my doors though that have been dumped :(
 
Well still totally confused on the whole Plummer thing, but loving reading some of these posts in the cold light of day.
Maesfen, are you admitting to being a poacher ?;)
 
WoopsiiD said:
Have to say after reading all these Plummer post I'm not about to be a fan.
Tweedette you aren't really doing a great PR job for them.

TBH I cannot see the point of them. It appears that Mr Plummer was breeding for the sake of breeding, trying to make a name for himself.

And yes I do feel qualified to talk on this as I am now in possesion of a hybrid mutant animal-created for the purpose of satisifying one mans need to be known.

If its not broke don't go trying to fix it.
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I was always puzzled as to why this man insisted on creating a dog that appealed only to the people he said he disliked so much - he never answered that one. One of these very dogs ripped a plummer in bits over a stupid bone while its owner was on the phone, I nver liked these dogs, what a shame they were brought into the world. Thats why we only have Plummers, if I were to get involved it would be for the benefit of the dog, I refused many canine offers from this man over the years to start commercial breeding?, but to me thats not cricket , I see a cause in these dogs but do worry about its future - you say bad publicity? is there such a thing, I am bringing them to peoples attention introducing the breed at grass roots. Warts an all.
 
pardon my ignorance of half of this thread, i gave up at page 6, but Tweedette to be honest i find you to be very Anti working for a working breed, or at least thats the way you come across.

In all of those pics you posted, the dogs looked in good health, happy to be doing what they were doing and doing it succesfully. They were hardly knocked about and your generalisation of young lads/guns and permission was very very ignorant and unhelpful, even the police officer had to tell you that. personally you are blessed to have a copper who is so understanding, the few from thames valley friends have encountered are not so accomodating.
I do know of several plummer packs around here that do the ratting on the rearing feilds and such, the dogs are all of good working stamp and definitley are nothing like what you are describing. watching terriers work is a pleasure and whatever positive message you are trying to get across, you are failing badly.

without ppersonally attacking you, or having a rant over such a ridiculous post, id suggest you dont frequent that forum anymore, i cant really see why you do when you have such strong opposing opinnions about it.
 
Santas New Little Helper said:
pardon my ignorance of half of this thread, i gave up at page 6, but Tweedette to be honest i find you to be very Anti working for a working breed, or at least thats the way you come across.

In all of those pics you posted, the dogs looked in good health, happy to be doing what they were doing and doing it succesfully. They were hardly knocked about and your generalisation of young lads/guns and permission was very very ignorant and unhelpful, even the police officer had to tell you that. personally you are blessed to have a copper who is so understanding, the few from thames valley friends have encountered are not so accomodating.
I do know of several plummer packs around here that do the ratting on the rearing feilds and such, the dogs are all of good working stamp and definitley are nothing like what you are describing. watching terriers work is a pleasure and whatever positive message you are trying to get across, you are failing badly.

without ppersonally attacking you, or having a rant over such a ridiculous post, id suggest you dont frequent that forum anymore, i cant really see why you do when you have such strong opposing opinnions about it.
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Is it so wrong to have an opinion as for the copper, he was well aware of a bitch that was taken from scotland carrying puppies to be whelped in england so they could get their tails docked, yet turned a blind eye?

I also love watching terriers or anything do the job they were bred for , I also like to see diversification, as that proves adaptability, who would have thought years ago that clydesdales would have ridden show classes, or the rehab of ex race horses would be so sucessful? its just the same.

Still, if you dont want me to post anymore so be it? thanks , and good bye. I did rather like the chatter though, some was real funny.
 
tweedette said:
Is it so wrong to have an opinion as for the copper, he was well aware of a bitch that was taken from scotland carrying puppies to be whelped in england so they could get their tails docked, yet turned a blind eye?

I also love watching terriers or anything do the job they were bred for , I also like to see diversification, as that proves adaptability, who would have thought years ago that clydesdales would have ridden show classes, or the rehab of ex race horses would be so sucessful? its just the same.

Still, if you dont want me to post anymore so be it? thanks , and good bye. I did rather like the chatter though, some was real funny.
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okay tweedette lets not get silly! you can post where you want but possibly not on a working dogs forum where there are going to be pictures of prowd owners and their dogs successes.

so what if someone took a bitch out of scotland to get docked, i agree with docking wholeheartedly, and if that was their wish then as far as the 'copper' was concerned they were not breaking the law.
having had a litter of terriers recently the ones that have been sold have gone to friends who will work them, and the one that was undocked went to a lovely man who was gutted that he wasnt docked because it would be working.

my other half has witnessed the damage a fox has done to a terrier after managing to get hold of its undocked tail and if it needs to be docked to avoid that then thats it.

as for plummers, i love the breed. the experiences ive had with them, although limited, have been pleasurable. my other half wouldnt want one as he agrees they can be in his words 'a bit of a pain in the arse', and he is a patterdale man.

but when you talk about them you dont particuarly do the breed justice. i dont particularly like GSDs, having had a couple of horrible experiences with very badly managed dogs, but that is the owners failing, not the breed.
 
:DWell,today you lot have taught me something! Now I know WHY bull terriers have such rotten (almost nonexistent!) recall....they never suffer from separation anxiety. In fact the old hiding behind a tree act to get the dog to worry and find you does`nt work either! They just say "oh,jolly good ,she`s buggered off" and toddle off on their own sweet business,until they realise they are lost and then home in to the smell of food anywhere!
I see nothing wrong in travelling to England to dock tails either,Gaud I do hate undocked anything that should be..again thanks RSPCA ,DEFRA and the KC.
What does worry me is that ,presumably,these dogs are to become KC promoted pet dogs..hmm.Whilst my Lakies are grand little dogs they are NOT a suitable dog for every member of Joe Public,and must suppose Plummers are the same.Loads of Patterdale/lakie types end up in rescue for that very reason,that is why I prefer if I can to sell my puppies to terrier men,with them they will do the work they crave.No stupid phone calls ,like the one from an idiot who had two (different litters /ages) and ranted because they had got under his inadequate fence and killed next doors pet rabbit.:D
Working/country companions ..not KC pet dogs .As for the over-mothering being due to separation anxiety..well actually bull terriers are extremely prone to being over anxious clumsy mothers..and as said..separation anxiety is`nt in their repetoire at all.:confused: Perhaps they`re just potty??:D:D
 
EAST KENT said:
In fact the old hiding behind a tree act to get the dog to worry and find you does`nt work either! They just say "oh,jolly good ,she`s buggered off" and toddle off on their own sweet business,until they realise they are lost and then home in to the smell of food anywhere!
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I'm soo glad it's not just my lot lmao!!

What I don't understand is the desperation to KC reg the breed? You can bring them to attention in other ways, like through working or something else like agility - show off the versatility of the breed. Patterdales and JRTs aren't registered yet they have a lot of recognition through those kinds of activities. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't Patterdales and JRTs (and thinking about it so do Lurchers) have their own clubs that aren't KC reg'd and hold their own shows, can't the Plummer's do the same?
 
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