worming, have you changed the way you do?

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itsme123

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on the way back from buying wormer this morning, I started thinking... I mean, i pay £100+ for wormers for the pony each year, and I'm not even sure they work, not really.
I'm not inexperienced by any means, but this worming malarkey flummoxes me, i admit.
The Dog and cats are easy, I go to the feed merhcants and buy what i need to buy, sets me back approx £2 each per time, and it's all explained on the packet. And I know they do their job...
But horse wormers? I've heard so much about modern wormers not working, and have looked at these herbal things (then decided I'd never forgive myself if they didnt work), and I know of a lady who uses cattle wormer on her herd...

I know vets over here havent licenced it yet, but I've heard great things about it, and wondered if anyone else had used it?? For starters the cost, I was told it works out at about £3 a year, per horse, and that lots of studs are now using it.

I've got a veteran pony who always seems (to me) to have a wormy belly. I've had him worm counted, and all apparently fine? But, im so relucatant to keep shoving these chemicals in him so many times a year.

I've seen the horrendous implications worm burden/ damage can do so seem to be battling with my own conscience here... hard to explain but what IF the standard wormers arent doing their job?? I knew of a horse who seemed fine, his worm count clear, but when he died and they opened him up he;d literally been eaten from the inside by worms, the damage to his gut was so great
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. This horse was wormed regularly too.

Does anyone else share my worries? and has anyone else used cattle wormer (injected) on their horses?? I'm seriously toying with the idea....
 
Don't just pump wormers into your pony, have a worm count done. The count doesn't tell everything you need to know, it won't tell you about tapeworm but it will tell you if you need to worm.

You can get a test done for about £6 with Westgate lab or various others on the internet. They'll send you the kit & instructions & you post off the sample. You'll get a result in a couple of days.
 
I wouldn't let cattle wormer near a horse - they're made for two different species - cattle have way different digestive systems to horses!

If you are only worming one pony how does it add up to £100 per year? I use the equest programme (worm 4 times a year) and it doesn't come to that?
 
Mine get wormed 3 times a year- twice for tape worm and once for all the rest. They are worm counted twice a year in between times and there's never any problems.

Yes there is a lot of resisitance about buit you're actually making it worse by worming so often blindly, without taking notice of what the worm counts say.
 
The yard I am on has a comprehensive worming system in place, advised by a vet and with protection built in for a turnover of horses, although in reality they move about very little compared to competition or dealing yards. There are no exceptions, in fact not complying with the schedule would result in liveries being asked to go elsewhere.
 
I wouldn't risk using cattle wormers, I know some who do but I'd be too worried about getting the dose wrong.

I am thinking about getting worm counts done rather than just routinely worming as per a chart!

£100+ seems an awful lot of money to worm one shetland pony though
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I wouldn't risk using cattle wormers, I know some who do but I'd be too worried about getting the dose wrong.

I am thinking about getting worm counts done rather than just routinely worming as per a chart!

£100+ seems an awful lot of money to worm one shetland pony though
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when i buy wormers I have to buy a normal sized one and use half, throw the other half away (what a waste, i know!)

when using the equest programme it's £60 a year (£20 each for the pramox, £10 otherwise) but when using other programmes it can add up to much more, plus worm counts, twice yearly...

as regards worm counts, sometimes he's out alone, sometimes he's out with horses from our yard, and sometimes (in the holidays) is on livery... I always worm him (pramox) before he goes on livery, but how do i go about this otherwise? if he came back clear would i just do him for roundworms?? My yard has it's own programme, which i don't follow as he's only out with their horses for a month a year, he has his 'own' paddock for daily turnout.
 
It could work out at about £100 if you were using Panacur or Strongid wormers as they recommend worming about every six weeks.

I wouldn't bother with the herbal ones myself. Having read all the small print (I had to request it from the manufacturer as there is very little info on the bottle or with the distributors) it gave me the impression that it wouldn't do very much at all!!!
 
But the point of worm counting is that if it comes back at <50 eggs/mg then you dont need to worm so you shouldnt (except for tapeworm)
 

How annoying that you have to throw half away each time - you need to try and find another shettie owner
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I have now got my yard in groups that, hopefully, won't change much. We are also poo-picking daily now so I am going to look into the worm count system.

Bossanova, I take it you worm for tapeworm early winter and spring then and worm-count inbetween?
 
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Bossanova, I take it you worm for tapeworm early winter and spring then and worm-count inbetween?

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Yep, I generally worm with equest mid summer as they change pastures then and worm count after that and again around november time
 
why dont you get the granules rather than the paste for your pony? should be cheaper? or buy in bulk from the internet - with really shopping around?

Last time we used the Panacur Equine Guard, i bought larger bottles than the 'normal ones' and in the instructions, there was the dosage info for cattle and sheet - so its the same stuff for that one - not sure on the other though?
 
Charlie..there's no reason to throw it away..just save it and use it next time.
A Pramox/Equest pack should cost around £50 and thats 2 years worth for your pony.
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Alternatively why don't you try him on the Equimax Tablets
 
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Cattle wormer - isn't that just Ivermectin?

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No, there are three different wormer groups for sheep and cattle wormers: benzimidazoles, levamisoles and morantel, and avermectins and milbemycins - the latter group containing ivermectin.

There are six different active ingredients for horse wormers: moxidectin, ivermectin, praziquantel, pyrantel, fenbendazole and mebendazole. Equest Pramox, Eqvalan Duo, and Equimax contain two active ingredients and therefore cover a wider spectrum. Fenbendazole and mebendazole are in the benzimidazole group and there is widespread resistance in sheep and cattle to this group. Moxidectin and praziquantel are the only two active ingredients in horse wormers that there is no confirmed resistance in horses (the two active ingredients that Equest Pramox has incidentally).

Can you tell I've just done my AMTRA
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!
 
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Can't for the life of me understand how someone can spend £100+ pa for a shetland. I have four little uns and pay less than that. I don't worm very much as I have worms counts done, but they actually cost more than worming would.

Worming really is not difficult anyhow.

I would not use cattle wormers on horses either.
 
Weeellllll..... as explained in my previous posts, pramox etc cost approx £20 each, plus worm counts twice a year..

he goes from stable (in winter, where he's wormed nomally, and is grazing alone, to being out with the others (and as such needs worming again) to being at livery during school holidays, so needs worming prior to that...

and my question was how do i use worm counts alongside worming and alonside him moving about?

and wether anyone used the cattle wormers (as I've heard people within the horsey world discussing using them)

and how would it be any cheaper anyway? the vet charges £40 per call out so even having only two bloods done per year would be at least £100.... worm counts (I do my own and send them away) are £10 a time.

I use half a wormer and throw the rest away, though from now on will be saving the other half (I didnt think you could
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)

I would rather be over zealous than lazy about it all, think I've worked myself into a bit of a tizz about it all somehow...
 
I would NOT use cattle wormer on your horses - if they have an adverse reaction to it and become ill you will have absolutley NO recourse at all, Some of the drugs used maybe the same, i.e Ivermectin but the concentrations will be different.........If anyone sells you cattle wormer knowing you are using it on your horse they are breaking the law, it's as simple as that......Only a vet can prescibe a drug that is not licensed for use in a particular species if there is no other drug/product availible for that species.

The pony you mention - sounds like the damage could have been done in young life or the pony had been constantly under dosed leading to anthelmintic (wormer) resistance - If i had a pound for the amount of times i have asked "how much does your horse weigh" only to be told "it's 16 hands"
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i'd be a friggin millionaire!!!!

To test for resistance you would need to do an egg count reduction test these peeps are good www.westgatelabs.co.uk or www.abbeydiagnostics.co.uk.

The benzimidazole group of drugs has widespread resistance (panacur and telmin) and we are starting to see resistance to pyrantel (strongid, pyratape) and more rarely there has been resistance to ivermectin........to date there has been no reported resistance to moxidectin.

I really cannot see why cattle wormer would be more favourable?? I mean the injectables are ivermectin anyway - so will not treat encysted small redworms nor tapeworm.........If your pony were mine i would do a cushings test due to that pot belly, worm count in summer and treat for tapeworm in september and march with equimax, and do a plain equest in november/decmeber time - i am wary of using pramox in oldies.....currently mine are poo-picked daily on their own paddocks worm counted and recieve 1x pramox per year......(apart from mare and foal) this works well for me and out of interest i had a tapeworm blood test done - came back negative so i know my programme is working.
 
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Weeellllll..... as explained in my previous posts, pramox etc cost approx £20 each, plus worm counts twice a year..

he goes from stable (in winter, where he's wormed nomally, and is grazing alone, to being out with the others (and as such needs worming again) to being at livery during school holidays, so needs worming prior to that...

and my question was how do i use worm counts alongside worming and alonside him moving about?

and wether anyone used the cattle wormers (as I've heard people within the horsey world discussing using them)

and how would it be any cheaper anyway? the vet charges £40 per call out so even having only two bloods done per year would be at least £100.... worm counts (I do my own and send them away) are £10 a time.

I use half a wormer and throw the rest away, though from now on will be saving the other half (I didnt think you could
blush.gif
)

I would rather be over zealous than lazy about it all, think I've worked myself into a bit of a tizz about it all somehow...

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he could go on the equest programme - 4 doses per year and would cover all of your situations.....
 
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QR
Cattle wormer - isn't that just Ivermectin?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, there are three different wormer groups for sheep and cattle wormers: benzimidazoles, levamisoles and morantel, and avermectins and milbemycins - the latter group containing ivermectin.

There are six different active ingredients for horse wormers: moxidectin, ivermectin, praziquantel, pyrantel, fenbendazole and mebendazole. Equest Pramox, Eqvalan Duo, and Equimax contain two active ingredients and therefore cover a wider spectrum. Fenbendazole and mebendazole are in the benzimidazole group and there is widespread resistance in sheep and cattle to this group. Moxidectin and praziquantel are the only two active ingredients in horse wormers that there is no confirmed resistance in horses (the two active ingredients that Equest Pramox has incidentally).

Can you tell I've just done my AMTRA
grin.gif
!

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LOL!! 2 years since i done mine - doing my CPD now!!! just wait until you start to ask horse/ pony weights and you get told "it's 16hh" or the "i want the cheapest wormer" brigade!! have fun!!!!
 
i worm twice a yr spring and autum for tape worms ecysted red worms and the autum one for bots aswell the rest of the yr i poo sample if they need a wormer i will give them one orther wise i want!
 
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