Worming my horse is causing Laminitis!

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pippinpie

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My poor horse is suffering again! He has now suffered 4 bouts in the last 4 years, the first to I put down to him being slightly overweight and not getting so much exercise. But the last twice, now and last January, I'm an experienced horse owner and I can see that something is not right here.
The first time I thought it was coincidental when one of my ponies (laminitic) was have trouble after worming, was ten years ago and when put to my vet and farrier both just poo pooed it!
Now I have another with the same coincidences 2/3 day after worming they go down with it when I do everything in my power to control feed intake and manage to keep him safe and free for long periods until worming, this year again I asked the vet and he said he never connected the two! so I told him that I was convinced that this was happening and I asked if he could at least ask clients with new cases of Laminitis or recurring bouts if they have just used a wormer.
The wormer I used in January was Equevalan Duo and the recent one Eraquell.
I was reluctant to worm in May for risk of it happening again.
Has anyone any experience of this or am I alone on this one?
 
A Lady I used to be on livery with had a mare go down with lami within 24 hours of giving equest pramox. The vet sad it wasn't related :rolleyes: Nothing else in the horses management had changed and horse was previously sound unshod and in light work.

I have since read more about it and if both your wormers had been combination wormers containing praziquantel I would have said that caused your problem. Praziquantel was shown to cause insulin problems in test animals which in a horse with borderline metabolic issues could be enough to tip them over into laminitis. Obviously only one of your wormers was combined so it is more puzzling.

Does your horse have any signs of metabolic issues? Could you try worm counts to reduce the number of times you have to use chemical wormers?
 
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I too have the same problem with my Welsh pony. She has a laminitic episode with every worming paste used including Strongid and Panacur. And yes she does have cushings and I noticed the laminitis started when she first exhibited signs of cushings. She is on thyroid medication to help with the cushings but it doesn't help with the attacks.
 
Yes this is quite common and happened to my laminitic. Firstly, you need to tell the place you bought the wormer from asap so they can withdraw the wormer and tell others who have bought it.

Secondly, it sounds as if your horse has metabolic problems. You need to ask vet for a liver function test. If he is swelling in legs, eyes, then definitely a liver/kidney problem. You must detox your horse and stop feeding any hard feed if you haven't already. I would suggest Global Herbs Restore or Trinity Consultants L94 asap to help rid the body of toxins from wormers, feed, and his lympahtic system of excess fluids. If he has lami, I would recommend, bedding on deep bed and removing shoes to allow natural support in boots & pads.

I now worm count religiously, and worm for tape and encysted redworm in stable with soaked hay and some Restore on standby.
 
tallyho! said:
Yes this is quite common and happened to my laminitic. Firstly, you need to tell the place you bought the wormer from asap so they can withdraw the wormer and tell others who have bought it.
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They won't withdraw the wormer, but they will send a suspected adverse reactions report to the VMD who will decide on the course of action. At the end of the day, thousands of horses are dosed with no problems whatsoever , yet as in human medicene there will always be a small percentage that will have an unwanted reaction. It is upto the owner then how to deal with the problem, i.e using other drugs or looking at alternatives.

ETS The VMD have a good surveilence scheme in place which needs to be used more, The trouble with most horse owners, instead of getting back to the shop and filling in a form they get on forums instead!!!
 
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If your horse has a fairly high worm burden prior to worming then the laminitis is due to the poor elimination of an overload of toxins from the decaying worms within his system. To avoid this worm more frequently or give a half dose then complete the dose four days later. However, if you do this you will need to also worm more frequently as the wormer will be less effective due to reistance.
 
Alfiem said:
They won't withdraw the wormer, but they will send a suspected adverse reactions report to the VMD who will decide on the course of action. At the end of the day, thousands of horses are dosed with no problems whatsoever , yet as in human medicene there will always be a small percentage that will have an unwanted reaction. It is upto the owner then how to deal with the problem, i.e using other drugs or looking at alternatives.

ETS The VMD have a good surveilence scheme in place which needs to be used more, The trouble with most horse owners, instead of getting back to the shop and filling in a form they get on forums instead!!!
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My tack shop operates this system and will call people who have bought that batch and withdraw! Who are you to say what someone will and wont do? Thing is, it IS under-reported and I'm glad to see responsible distributors taking such action.
 
For a week before you worm, dose up with a pro/prebiotic (I like Protexin Gut Balancer, or even just Yea-Sacc) and something like Global Herbs Restore to help the liver deal with the toxins from the wormer chemicals.

Mine went really footy earlier in the year after worming with Bimectin. Fine on Panacur Guard after moving yards. He was wormed with Equest Pramox yesterday morning... so far so good, will know this evening for sure. I keep in for a couple of days now after worming, up to 5 days in summer to keep him off the grass too (minimise the things his body has to deal with).
 
Thank you every one :)

Just a few facts about my current laminitic horse, he is 17 years old, Welsh cob, owned for the last 8 years, regularly wormed (as are all my others) with the correct wormer's for the times of year, has had a zero worm count done in may, also the blood test done to rule out metabolic syndrome, is not on any hard food, has access to good mineral licks and is in trim condition at the moment and was being ridden and sound before this last episode.

I was aware of the Paramox association after the January attack, that's why I did the worm count (zero) at the next worming, but was lulled into thinking it would be allright if I used Ivermectin and that this time he would be OK.

This happened the evening before I flew out on holiday in early Oct :eek: but I know the drill and he was stabilized very quickly, and only needed 3 weeks box rest before I allowed him out again, so although he has had it again it was much milder than the previous ones.

My main aim of the thread was to seeks out others that have experienced this and gain some valuable info, and to possibly highlight this so that it becomes more widely known and accepted.

I think that I am doing the best already for my horse and I really need to be able to do more, but what other alternatives to commercial wormer's can we use? I will certainly will be doing worm counts first in the future, but they don't pick up all worm burdens!

The more this is discussed and researched the better for all.

I am also worried now for my other horses (which are not laminitic)

Thank you all again for your excellent input and helpful advice.
 
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Why withdraw the wormer from sale? We have never had to do anything off the kind. Ditto what alfie said the correct paperwork needs to be done. Probably a under lieing problem with the horse rather than the wormer
 
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