Worming: worm count -v- regular programmed worming

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MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

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Am just wondering what people do?

I.e. my vets normally send out a reminder when its time to worm, with the type of wormer they have in stock and which they recommend for that time of year. Till now, I've gone along with this and just basically go with the flow, BUT I'm wondering whether it might be worth doing it differently and having a dung worm count done first?

I think I've heard this called "intelligent worming"???

Does anyone do it?

Any feedback? Pro's and con's???
 
I do a worm count every 3 months (use Westgate Labs, who I cannot recommend highly enough) had a negative count each time for the past 4 counts, since I started using them, so just worm in September for tapeworm and another worm (which I cant remember the name of). I dont see the point of putting chemicals into my horse if not needed.

However my horse is in an individual paddock and I poo pick twice daily, so this system works really well for me.
 
Propylactic worming

Cons:
Promotes resistance in worms
Expensive
Bad for the environment (chemicals that kill horse worms kill other invertebrates in soil)
Probably not great for the horses themselves (it's only the size of the dose that stops the chemical being poisonous to the horse too).

Pros:
Requires little thought

Worm egg counting

Pros:
You only treat for what is actually there, so some horses very rarely need wormed at all
Slows development of resistance so chemical wormers can be preserved for emergencies
Once you know your own horse's pattern of infection, you can cut down on the number of egg counts you have done

Cons:
Doesn't test for tapeworm, so you either need to worm for tapeworm once or twice per year, or have a special test done which involves the vet taking a blood sample.

EVERYONE should use egg counts to determine their worming programme - we are heading for a situation where worms are resistant to all the chemicals we have available and the only way to slow this inevitablilty is to cut our use of chemical wormers.
 
i used to always worm regularly but decided to have a worm count done when i was at a yard who didnt poo pick and used to put their own horses in my horses field at night when mine was in the stable. i moved to another yard where i have my own individual field and wanted to make sure i was starting off worm free. i poo pick daily and have worm count done by westgate labs every few months, and worm for tapeworm twice a year. i dont feel its a good idea to put chemicals into my horse if dont have to...if you buy 4 kits from westgate they will remind you by e mail when the next test is due so thats really helpful.....
 
worm count and worm in Autumn and Spring for tapeworm and Mid winter for Encysted Red Worm.

Neither tapeworm nor Encysted Red Wrom show on worm counts so it's important to worm for them
 
We are down to just one test a year now. I also worm for tapeworm and encysted red worm in the Autumn. So effectively, the horses only get one worming a year and have maintained a negative count every summer for the past 3 years, except for two exceptions where horses that had visited other yards had a positive result and were therefore wormed. I think however, if you have lots of horses coming and going on your yard and are sharing fields that are not regularly poo picked, then you will probably need to worm traditionally every 8 - 12 weeks or so as worm counts would probably be an additional expense as would be positive anyway.
 
We worm count twice a year at our yard and worm for tapeworm/ encysted larvae at the appropriate time. Solo equestrian has really said it all in their post. Worming without knowing what is there (if anything) is as bad as feeding antibiotics to poultry as a preventative measure. Old fashioned and bad for all involved.
 
i am on intelligent worming and I like it as it is really easy for someone like me who has no expertise on worming and as I don't need to remember when to do things or what wormers I used last time etc as everything gets sent when you need it.

You have your own personalized program and get a history of worm counts results and what wormers used. your plan is updated if need be according to results.

The only downside is that it can take a few years to build up a pattern so sometimes my pony has come back with a high worm count whilst trying to reduce the wormers and work out how long between worming is needed. This is of course treated immediately and his program amended. However long term the idea is to use the minimum amount of wormers necessary to prevent resistance and also to limit the amount of poison going into the system (wormers of course are a sort of poison as they kill worms!). Intelligent worming is I would say a long term solution whilst regular programmed no worm count worming can be effective but is more about short term rather than looking at long term and preventing resistance and also not giving more toxins than necessary.

Also it is quite a new concept and not all YO are up for it, it is far easier for them to just make everyone do the same thing at the same time. As intelligent worming is about individuals different horses in the same field may well be on different programs according to their susceptibility to worms.
 
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I have been doing worm counts through my vets which I am more than happy with! I liked the idea of intelligent worming and wanted to go with them,, but I did not like the idea of joining up and not knowing how much my worming programme was going to be for the year ahead! And no matter how many time I asked I was told that a rough price couldn't be given until after a count was done! Unfortunately I am not in the position to not have to budget for things like this!
 
splashgirl45 said:
i used to always worm regularly but decided to have a worm count done when i was at a yard who didnt poo pick and used to put their own horses in my horses field at night when mine was in the stable. i moved to another yard where i have my own individual field and wanted to make sure i was starting off worm free. i poo pick daily and have worm count done by westgate labs every few months, and worm for tapeworm twice a year. i dont feel its a good idea to put chemicals into my horse if dont have to...if you buy 4 kits from westgate they will remind you by e mail when the next test is due so thats really helpful.....
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galaxy23 said:
worm count and worm in Autumn and Spring for tapeworm and Mid winter for Encysted Red Worm.

Neither tapeworm nor Encysted Red Wrom show on worm counts so it's important to worm for them
Click to expand...

All of this! I worm count using Westgate Labs (used my vets after a scare re friends on the same yard panicking recently) and worm for tapeworm/redworm. West gate Labs is cheaper than the vet and actually quicker, weirdly.

I'd rather not chuck a bunch of chemicals down my horse if it can be avoided.
 
I have done this routine for the past eight years for my present two and previous two horses.

Early April worm count before they go on summer fields. If necessary use a wormer.

mid September - worm count.

October - worm with a tape wormer or if necessary a combination wormer before they go onto the winter field.

December - worm with Equest to remove encysted red worm.

For the first two years I did do a worm count in late June, but it never showed anything, hence I dropped down to two counts a year.

I rarely have anything other than nil or low counts. The field is poo picked daily in summer and weekly in winter until about the end of January when it is too muddy and grazing is practically gone. There are only my two in the field.

With regard to tape, my vet advised just to worm once a year in the autumn as my two do not suffer from colic or have problems with their weight. In said he could do a blood test, but felt it was easier to do the annual wormer, plus he did say easier on my pocket.

It is not difficult to do this routine, just at the start of the year write on a calender - I have one in the yard to record when jabs, worming, teeth and farrier is due.

You will not be stuffing your horse full of not needed chemicals, and for me, as I have very large hairy horses, this method saves money.

You must remember to worm for encysted red worm - Equest and Pancur Guard are the only ones that do this, and also for tape worm as these do not show up in the tests.

I use Abbey Diagnostics for my worm counts. Good service - they email the results to me and price is competative.
 
Hi

We use worm counts - one advantage I have recently found it that it also highlights resistance problems.

For example I have one horse who i have had for 20 years - worm count less than 50 for the past year. In the same field is my new horse (only had a year) first few worm counts were fine last worm count showed she needed wormed so this was done BUT the latest worm count still showed a burden so we have wormed again and will re-test in 14 days to see if wormer has been effective. If not there may be a resistance issue. Without worm counting you dont know if your wormer has worked.

Yes I will have paid for 2 worm counts and a wormer this month but what is the point of worming if it is not working? The only way to know is via a worm count.
 
That is thing is that they won't know what you need until you have worm counts as the program is based on results as well as of course seasonal tape and encysted. The whole idea is about worming for your individual situation and they need to do the counts and analysis of how your horse is managed to work this out.

I think you can pay by monthly direct debit to spread the costs if you want. As an idea my program cost just over £100 a year which included the worm counts and wormers which has been 4 wormers a year so far as he seems to be a bit susceptible to worms as when the time between worming is extended he gets worms again unlike some of his fieldmates which are down to just two wormers a year.

phizzogs said:
I have been doing worm counts through my vets which I am more than happy with! I liked the idea of intelligent worming and wanted to go with them,, but I did not like the idea of joining up and not knowing how much my worming programme was going to be for the year ahead! And no matter how many time I asked I was told that a rough price couldn't be given until after a count was done! Unfortunately I am not in the position to not have to budget for things like this!
Click to expand...
 
Wagtail said:
I think however, if you have lots of horses coming and going on your yard and are sharing fields that are not regularly poo picked, then you will probably need to worm traditionally every 8 - 12 weeks or so as worm counts would probably be an additional expense as would be positive anyway.
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Surprisingly, this is not my experience, round here we don't poo pick, it would be impossible due to large fields anyway, my first worm count [horse looked a million dollars] he needed worming, since then I have had two clears, once he had been in isolation in a completely clean field, and the second after summer grazing in a field of eight to to ten horses, including visiting horses, and he was again clear.
Some people worm regularly, [but not all horses on one day as far as I can tell], and some worm count, that is how it is, all a bit chaotic.
Westgate email me a reminder even though we are only on our third test. Results by text almost next day from posting!
 
Just to add three other thoughts to this:

1. Refugia: another aspect to combatting resistance is that if you have no non-resistant worms in a population, the resistant ones can multiply exponentially. So if you do need to worm, you should keep the horse on 'dirty' pasture so that any reinfection that occurs is with non-resistant worms, rather than with resistant worms which are the only ones that would be present if the horses were moved onto clean pasture at the same time as worming it.
2. Zero burden: it isn't necessarily healthy to have no worms at all. Studies in various species (humans included) have shown that animals can be less healthy when they have no parasite burden - mainly with autoimmune type conditions like asthma (possibly RAO in horses). The figures that tend to be quoted as 'high' burden etc don't appear to have any grounding in research - they were just made up.
3. Encysted redworm: If a horse has a low redworm burden, where would encysted larvae come from?
 
Three very useful points indeed Solo. I agree entirely.

Refugia is a difficult topic to convince people about when the old advice always said 'worm and move to clean pasture.' People don't like it.
 
After 30 years of worming our horses routinely I am now a Westgate convert. The last two tests have meant no worming at all which is brilliant. I will of course be worming for tape. We do not poo pick either, paddocks are harrowed on bright sunny days.

I was sceptical I must admit. The service from Westgate speedwise etc is excellent
 
I worm count every 3 months (Westgate) and worm for tapeworm Spring and Autumn and for encysted redworm in the winter. Even though my horse is out with 12 others and I have no idea what worming programmes these other horses are on and the field is never poo-picked I've found this system works for mine and he is currently always <50epg.
 
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