Worming & worm counts

C

chestnut cob

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Just looking for some thoughts on this....

Does worm counting actually work? How much needs to be tested to give an accurate count?

I don't want to worm unnecessarily and am thinking about worm counting this time around, and will then worm for tapeworm after the first frost.

ATM I'm unconvinced about it having been on a yard in the past where horses were worm counted - they all came back with "less than 50" counts yet were mostly on fields that were rarely rotated or poo picked, and over stocked. Maybe they were just lucky, or maybe the worm counts were inaccurate?

I understand all about worm resistance to drugs but I'm unconvinced about worm counting as an alternative. What do people think? As yet, I've only really seen (in real life) negative stories... horses who were worm counted, on individual TO on paddocks poo picked every day yet ended up quite poorly with a high worm burden.

What to do? I'm due to worm this or next week with an Ivermectin based wormed, as advised by my vet, although I know the same vet does advocate worm counting instead of worming where possible.

ETA - horse is kept on individual paddock (horses either side of him that he can touch/ play with). Paddock has been rested since the winter and nothing else has grazed it since. I think the horses will move to other rested paddocks in autumn, then probably move again during winter. He is on a pretty big field, prob a couple of acres for 1 x 15hh, so he has plenty of space and is poo picked every day.
 
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I am also unconvinced about worm counts. They certainly don't pick up on tapeworm burden - you need a blood test to do that. Having lost a horse to colic, and subsequently read up on how much trouble worm infestation can cause re colic & twisted guts, I found tapeworm one of the major causes. The blood test for tapeworm eggs is one of the standard tests on admission for colic surgery.

Also aware of problems re drug resistance, but have two horses on 50 acres rotating with cows and sheep. Worm damage had been done as a younster before I had him.
 
I think one worm count is possibly a bit hit and miss but three consecutive low counts would satisfy me that the horse genuinely wasn't wormy.
 
I did get a count done by Westgate Labs in the end. I felt like I'd wormed an awful lot this year (vet advised prog even though horse is v low risk... I've had him nearly 18 months, he's on individual turnout [touching other horses], large fields which are poo picked daily, rested and rotated). Count came back as "no eggs seen in sample". They told me to give them samples from different piles all around the field to make it more representative.

RE tapeworm, I'm aware of that and would always worm for it anyway. Westgate told me to use Equest Pramox only, as they said it's the only one with no current known resistance.
 
I started using worm counts this year. My horse is very colic prone and in fact it was in Dec last year when she colicked twice that I had her checked and they said she was okay..... I've had her checked ever since and had all clear/low counts. I did worm her in Spring with Equest Pramox which also does redworm and I will also worm her again this Autumn again with Pramox as this covers the worms not covered in a dung test (tapeworm and I "believe" redworm but stand to be corrected).
 
To clarify, you give the Equest pramox about Nov/Dec to treat both encysted stages of redworm plus tapeworm in one dose. There would be no need to worm at present with a good result like this. The whole point of testing is to monitor what is going on.

We test many horses who have been wormed religiously and still have high worm burdens so don't think that alone will solve the problem. Resistance is the scary future unless folk stop giving all those unnecessary doses.

On the point of the livery yard returning good results from suspect fields, do make sure that the counts are done at the right time.

Worm count based programmes will give the best worm control. It doesn't mean to say that you just give up worming, and the OP understands this but not everyone does. If you use a reputable company or vet to do your counts and guide you with advice then this is the best system. There are many others out there who jump on the band wagon, cut corners, cut prices and don't have the knowledge to see the job done correctly. It is such an important aspect of horse care so look for the best advice you can.
 
A horse who colics without any seeming cause would be highly suspect for tapeworm problems. These are not reliably detected in worm counts of course but it would be helpful to review the tapeworm cover used. Obviously you would involve your vet in such a situation.
It's worth remembering that there are only two drugs used to treat horses for tapeworm, praziquantel and double pyrantel. These can be used alternately about 6 mths apart for a horse suspected of tapeworm problems.
 
Well my vet just called me as I got my last result yesterday and wanted to chat re tapeworms as I didn't get her tested for that. She indeed recommened EQUITAPE for tapewom alone as the worm test does cover red worm. So jumping on the band wagon as I have no idea why I didn't ask the vet should I give her that in Nov/Dec? I always thought Tapeworm should be dealt with in Spring and Autumn?
 
You can give her Equitape any time you need to as it is a narrow spectrum drug targeted specifically at tapeworm. Many people split the treatments for tapes and redworm. Use Equitape for tapes then in Nov/Dec plain Equest for encysted redworm. I would suggest double pyrantel about next April to further treat tapeworm, then start worm counts about a month later and don't worm unless you need to through summer and autumn next year. This assumes your horse is a mature adult in good health.
 
Thanks you VERY much Borderreiver! I shall print this page off and keep it as it all makes perfect sense. I am a bit "green" with this as just followed an idiot proof plan before but am super paranoid about this mare as she did indeed have Tapeworm and spent 5 days at the vets as a 4yr old 2 months after I bought her with her spleen flipped over her colon!!! This was the beginning of August as I did enfact have the tapeworm wormer ready to give her in the Sept/Oct!!!!! She is 7 now and touch wood her colic attacks are so much less.

Thank you again for your help and sorry to have hijacked your post chestnut cob!!
 
No problem, you are very welcome. You can ask us worming questions on the fb page any time you like. We have a team of SQP's who do this every day. I won't say who we are for fear of being thought to advertise, but my aim as ever is to help owners understand worming. Someone else has already mentioned our name. :)
 
Borderreiver said:
No problem, you are very welcome. You can ask us worming questions on the fb page any time you like. We have a team of SQP's who do this every day. I won't say who we are for fear of being thought to advertise, but my aim as ever is to help owners understand worming. Someone else has already mentioned our name. :)
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I wonder if you work for/ are the people I used then! If so, v quick service and I was really impressed :)

I'm aware that Pramox does encysted redworm as well as tapeworm, and I believe it is also effective for bots? I'll do Pramox in Oct/Nov (whenever we get a frost, as advised by my vet and WL also told me to worm around then). I did speak to WL on the phone before sending in the sample. Was told another tapeworm dose wasn't needed in spring as my horse is "low risk", but if I did want to do it I should use Equest. Alternatively, don't worm for tapeworm and just resume worm counting 3 months after the Pramox dose. I did query using Eqvalan Duo for tapes and redworm but was told too much resistance as it's Ivermectin-based.

I will still worm during summer months if needed, but the number of Ivermectin-based doses that my vet recommended seemed rather unnecessary (horse would have been done 3-4 times), hence going with an egg count this time around.
 
I am WL, it is my business and the whole postal worm count thing was invented by us originally. But it is more than a business as we are still passionate about improving worming and educating owners, so do keep asking, email, phone or fb will reach experienced support.
 
Borderreiver said:
I am WL, it is my business and the whole postal worm count thing was invented by us originally. But it is more than a business as we are still passionate about improving worming and educating owners, so do keep asking, email, phone or fb will reach experienced support.
Click to expand...

Well as I say, super impressed with the quick turnaround and quality of advice both on phone and via email : D
 
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