*Worried* Words of wisdom please.

Black_Horse_White

Black_Horse_White

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My new Cob of 7 weeks is lame :-) I was riding on Saturday when my horse trod/tripped on a large pointed brick. He has no cut or damage that I can see on his sole frog etc. When I was on my way home he was slightly lame in trot but as it was only slight didn't worry. I rode for the first time yesterday and he is still lame. I've given him bute & intend to give it to him until the weekend & then stop if he's sound then trot him up again on Monday. I'm waiting for my farrier to ring back so he can come out & have a look. If he is no better by Monday should I get the vet? And as anyone had this type of thing happen to there horses? I'm in constant contact with his old owner who assures me he's only been lame the one time when her farrier trimmed him too short.


I'm sorry for being a paranoid owner but I lost my horse recently and I'm so worried for my new horse. My horse had Laminitis amongst other things & I'm scared to death of my new boy getting it. Although I'm doing my utmost to prevent it. Any advice welcome.
 
If he trod on the brick and was subsequently lame, I would suspect bruising. See what the farrier says. If he can't see anything then I'd be phoning the vet. If you put the horse on bute, though, he will most likely present sound even if the underlying problem is still there, so don't assume he's sound until he's been off the bute for a while :)
 
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I'd stop the bute if it were my horse- otherwise you can't see if they are making an improvement or getting worse, and if farrier can't come out to check for bruising- I'd get vet out to take a look just to check and go from there to make sure nothing has happened to internal structures of foot to be on the safe side.

If you are told it is bruising then they may be able to take shoe off and poulticing with a hot dressing or kaolin poultice will help draw it out, as would hot and cold tubbing- box rest is good if it is bruising- can take up to a couple of weeks I think.

Hopefully you'll get some more replies though as i'm no expert-have just answered with just what i would do!


Your poor horse though- bet you were out enjoying a lovely hack, and then for that to happen must have been very unexpected- hope he is better soon! :)
 
I was only going to see if he was sound after being off the bute, As I've said I have every intension of calling the vet out on Monday if he is no better. As for self medicating I do it on myself everyday, he is in pain so i've given him a painkiller, where's the harm AmyMay? thanks for the replies.
 
where's the harm AmyMay
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If you'd had the horse for years there would be no problem. This is a new horse - you have no idea how he would normally react to pain. He could be a wimp or he could be a stoic. Therefore for you as his new owner it is always best to err on the side of caution and get the vet.

It's probably no more than bruising - but at this stage you have no way of knowing.

Any advice welcome.
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Advice duly given to one 'worried' owner.
 
I'm afraid I would not have trotted him home and I would have called the vet as well. These subtle lamenesses can indicate problems that need fairly urgent attention. I wouldn't self-medicate either because without a diagnosis you don't really know if he should be on bute, e.g. if he has a minor injury to a ligament the pain would keep him from overstraining himself, by buteing and presumably still turning him out you may be making him pain free enough to really injure himself.

Sorry to be so negative, but better safe than sorry with these things. Hope it turns out to be nothing.
 
After he had trod on the stone he was fine, I only did a few strides on my way home as soon as he felt lame I stopped trotting! I've rang my vet whom recommends 1 bute twice a day & kept in on a deep bed for at least a week.
 
I was B_H_W's hacking partner on Saturday and yesterday.

We met up and came back to our farm for J's first ride in open fields since she bought him. He trotted sound in our fields and we had a lovely, steady canter together. No hell for leather gallops, no slipping and sliding and both horses were warmed up and cooled down properly.

As we walked through one of our gateways, there was a section of stones/rubble that had been tipped there some years previously to preserve the integrity of the gateway for the cows to walk across in muddy conditions, leaving just a few bigger stones/rocks exposed. Unfortunately, J's horse trod on one of these stones. I took a picture of it the next day. It's the darker stone in the background.

(Sorry I can't make the picture larger due to Safari and the new FB picture viewer)
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He did stumble at the time, as he trod fully on it, but walked away fine afterwards and we continued our ride. Didn't really think much of it at the time, but obviously the ground at home is soft and bruising does take time to develop.

Didn't ride after that until yesterday. J did not continue to trot him on the road at all. We were on our way home when we trotted to a gateway down a narrow lane to let traffic pass. It wasn't far at all, but J thought Murphy felt "off". I trotted ahead and J trotted a few strides up to me. It was very subtle, but he was indeed very slightly lame. We weren't far from home, he was happy to walk on, so we continued to steadily hack back in walk. As soon as Murphy was on the yard, J hopped off and untacked him to check him over. He was trotted up a few strides again when un-tacked (just to rule out tack), checked over fully and put in his stable.

Having then remembered about the stone and J thinking he felt a little funny on Saturday when heading home from our ride, we both felt that it's the most plausible (although I accept it could be something completely unrelated) explanation for his being very slightly lame.

There is no heat, no swellings/lumps/bumps. He doesn't resent being poked or prodded or having any of the tendon areas down the back of the leg squeezed. No digital pulse.

I really do hope it's just a simple case of bruising for J's sake as she's had enough bad luck for the last twelve months.

For the record....I have removed all of the stones from the gateway ready for next time (as there WILL be a next time...I'm sure of it!). As I said to J, he could walk through there another 50 times and not tread on anything at all. It was just truly an unfortunate incident and I wish Murphy a full and speedy recovery.
 
I wouldn't have much confidence in a vet that advised bute without a visit when he has no history of a horse. Sorry and all that. In fact, i'm not even sure if that is 'allowed'? Most probably bruising, but i'm always wary of giving painkillers until the cause is known. Bit different to us humans, we can explain our pain and work out what's happened.
Bruising in the sole can take months to rectify, and can happen very easily. But by giving pain relief it hinders the diagnosis and certainly won't help the farrier find a sore spot. If this happened to one of mine i'd watch for a couple of days to see how much pain it seemed to be in, but as has been said before horses all differ with what they tolerate. As long as he's fully weight bearing and comfortable it shouldn't be too serious. But the vet is the only real way forward to be sure, and he needs to see it rather than diagnosing over the phone.
There are more 'old fashioned' remedies around to easy sore feet that won't mask the original problem, a bit like a cold flannel for a migraine.
 
Got to agree with others I'm afraid, if the horse is lame get the vet especially with feet - so much goes on in there! And as others said, sometimes if the horse is a bit sore he will self limit his movement if its masked he can do more harm so generally if on Bute for an injury I'd be box resting anyway. Hope he's ok! x
 
Sounds like you are trying your best, but to be honest I would be looking for a new vet. I would not accept a telephone diagnosis of "bute and box rest for a week"!! How could he possibly know what the problem is over the phone?! It could be totally unrelated to the brick, e.g. an abscess building up, to a tendon or ligament problem, to a bruised sole, to a tweeked muscle...the list is endless really!
 
Got any hoof testers? If its bruising he should react to them. The law of averages says that if he stood on a sizable stone (and stood on it properly as it seems he did) and has quite soon after developed a mild lameness then thats the culprit and to treat for bruising - usual caveat - could be any number of things and i'm not a vet.

I do agree with some of the others though about the bute, its much easier to see how its progressing without it, nothing more upsetting than giving bute and watching them hurt themselves more because they feel fine.
 
I can confirm that J has taken Murphy off the bute and he is now on box rest on a deep shavings bed. I would say he is no more than 1/10th lame, certainly not remotely hopping by any stretch of the imagination.

The vet has seen this horse four times since J had him. Once to vet him, two vaccinations and to come out and assess scabs on his legs when he had mites. He is certainly not an unknown horse to the vet.

My vet has "prescribed" the use of Pen & Strep (which we keep in stock for our cows) over the phone for my horse in the past when she fell in the pond, although he did come out the next day, and I've also been left antibiotics, bute etc from a phone call. Infact I was also advised to jab our other mare with Pen & Strep when one of the others kicked her. Yes, my vet had longer history of my horse but any new "injury" or ailment could be anything. I've used several vets over the years and all have been happy to allow us to medicate ourselves. I am surprised there's such shock that a vet would give some guidance via the phone as we can't be the only two people in history (and I don't use the same vet as the OP) to have been given such advice.

This horse is shut in a stable now, and the vet is happy to see if it resolves itself with rest, given the incident with the stone. You can rest assured that he will come out to do further investigations next week IF Murphy is still not 100% sound.
 
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No words of wisdom I'm afraid, however I'd have to strongly disagree with the people who are saying that he shouldn't be having bute. Bute is an anti-inflammatory, and the only analgesic properties it has are a secondary affect of removing inflammation in the affected area. Bute will not mask the pain of a severely lame horse (certainly not at that dosage, anyway), however if the foot is bruised and there is an inflammation then it will prevent further tissue damage. In this case I would think that it's entirely justified.

Otherwise, it really depends on the owner. Box rest and bute would be the standard initial procedure for most problems anyway, but it's probably worth checking in with the vet again in a day or two.
 
Thanks Patches x And that was my main reason for the bute as an anti inflammatory. When my other horse had Laminitis the vet came out and gave me exactly the same advice as he has now. Only he gave me Sedalin too. And thanks to him & me my horse made a quick and full recovery. So please don't judge him for giving advice over the phone. I've spent over £3000 this year with my vet and he's not quick to take anymore of my money. And you can all rest assure that if my horse really needs the vet to come out he will. I'm the first to be on the phone worrying about him. Thank you for your replies and I will update you soon.
 
Maggiesmum I don't have any hoof testers I'm waiting for my farrier to get back to me so he can come out & see him. I don't think he will do any further damage as he is now on boxrest on a big bed. And being a big hairy Cob doesn't move to far away from his haynet. Ive had a good feel tonight no heat or swelling anywhere, no digital pulse & he let
me pick out all his feet and is weight bearing.
 
'Words of wisdom' means agree with me then.

I am fully aware of the benefits of bute thank you Alesea. But I stand by my reasoning that until you know the cause of the injury, rather than a believed one, then its use should be guarded. Had it been a slither of stone gone down the side of the frog the bute would have masked the issue until it was a big one. And as the poster has asked what we would do in the original post that, as far as I can see, is what we have done.
I don't flash the bute out so willingly i'm afraid.
 
No it does not mean agree with me, I asked for advice not to be slated for giving mm horse bute and possibly making him worse. If that were the case I wouldn't of asked. How many horses out there are lame been to see numerous vets and are still un diagnosed. I'm not going to leave him to suffer. And I'm doing what I've been advised to do by my vet after the orginal post. Then I'm still damned because I didn't call him out. I won't be asking advice again I'll rely on my vet. Thanks to everyone for your replies.
 
Booboos said:
Sounds like you are trying your best, but to be honest I would be looking for a new vet. I would not accept a telephone diagnosis of "bute and box rest for a week"!! How could he possibly know what the problem is over the phone?! It could be totally unrelated to the brick, e.g. an abscess building up, to a tendon or ligament problem, to a bruised sole, to a tweeked muscle...the list is endless really!
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Maybe because that's what I'd told him, I told him he was lame after treading on the stone. If I'd have told him I didn't know the possible cause he would have come out. He's off the Bute and on boxrest.
 
Bit harsh Duggan as that's not what the poster is asking people to do at all.

I know J personally, she's a very good friend of mine. Having watched her go though a year of despair and stress with her old horse....which ultimately ended in grief when she lost him (despite spending many thousands in vet fees to get him right) I know that what the OP was hoping for was someone to reassure her, at this stage, that it's "probably just a stone bruise" and nothing overly sinister. J has many thoughts running through her head, none of them pleasant, and is trying very hard not to panic.

I know no one can really do that on a forum, but many of us have similar stories to tell that didn't end up with a horse being permanently lame and unable to work. Having only recently bought this horse, to replace a dear horse that was lost, I know that's J's fears......that her bad luck is continuing.

Given what happened on Saturday, I do think it's too much of a coincidence not to have been the stone (although I appreciate I could be proved wrong) and I think the vet is also airing in the conservative side and giving Murphy the chance to come sound over the next few days with minimal intervention.

There is no hesitation to call a vet out and J is certainly not trying to save herself a few pounds. She has called the vet and he doesn't think it's worth any invasive blocks or xrays etc at this point for what may turn out to just be a simple stone bruise. Her horse is not suffering. He is not down in the dumps, he is happy as larry and barely noticeably lame. It's very, very subtle. As he is on box rest, the risk of any further complication is minimal and he is off the bute so no symptoms are being masked.

Should he still be unsound after the recommended period of box rest, or his condition worsen at all over the next few days, the vet will obviously be asked to conduct a full lameness work-up in the hope of arriving at a firm diagnosis and preparing a treatment plan.

Anyone would think we're talking about a welfare case and J has a horse with a leg hanging off and she's refusing to call the vet! I have a feeling there are many horses far more lame than Murphy in full work with owners blissfully unaware or ignorant to their horse's condition.
 
Crikey, why are some people so judgemental?

If it were either of my horses I would have done exactly the same thing as the OP, bearing in mind the circumstances (hack, brick etc.)

By the law of probability it is probably just a bruise, and even if it isn't, it's not as if the OP has taken the horse showjumping or hunting the next day.

Whatever the injury, bute and box rest would have been the order of the day, and if the horse is sound once the bute has worn off, then all the better.

Have to say though, if it were either of mine, they would have had the bute (Danilon in their case) and gone out in the field as normal.
 
I think many, many people (myself included) would have done the same thing as the OP if they're honest.

It's certainly not a question of not caring about your horse at all. I don't run to the doctor if my nose runs or my feet ache....I take some tablets and hope it goes away. If it doesn't, I book myself an appointment and take myself off to the doc's for a check over.

A full lameness work-up with xrays, nerve blocks etc can be anywhere between £500 and £1000. Why would anyone rush to set that level of tests/expense in motion when it could be something and nothing that rights itself in a few days. Nerve blocks carry the risk of introducing infection themselves. Imagine the insurance company's delight at being able to exclude a whole foot due to a work up over a horse stepping on a stone? (If that is indeed what this hopefully turns out to be).

There's another poster on this board with a horse with a hot hoof. Bizarrely a similar username and list of symptoms. Interesting to see the different responses that poster got to her question.
 
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This is silly, no one said the horse should have x-rays and nerve blocks and there is quite a big gap between a phone diagnosis on the one hand and nerve blocks on the other.

The OP is worried and asked if she was doing the right thing. Some people responded that she was not right and should have acted differently - I can't quite see what is wrong with that. If the OP is perfectly happy with her decisions, good for her. No one is wishing her or her horse ill, and it's probably a slight injury that will resolve itself with no problems, but if my opinion is that I would have called the vet out and I am asked for it then I will give it.
 
I wasn't attempting to incite an argument. ;)

The point I was trying to make is that from my own experience, with different vets, that most of them would suggest to bang the horse up in the stable for a week and see what it's like then. That's all that's ever happened with me initially upon calling a vet out to a lameness with no obvious cause. Vets can be equally as quick to dish out bute, even when they've seen a horse.

I don't think a vet on a call out today would have been able to look at Murphy and use some ESP-esque vet powers (for want of a better phrase) and be able to say with any confidence "this is what it is" UNLESS they went for xrays and nerve blocks etc. There is no heat, lumps or bumps, no pain reaction and no digital pulse.

I've either had the .... box rest for a week idea or suggestions to work them harder and see if anything more obvious shows up. Obviously I always opted for the box rest for a week and re-evaluate then.
 
Two years ago my horse came up with a lameness of 2/10ths lame on his near fore. Not sure how he did it. Turned out that he had hurt his collateral ligament.My point is that even a very subtle lameness can be very serious indeed. He had no marks no swelling only a very slight persistant lameness. So be very wary, if he's not sound by the Monday call the vet asap. My boy was lame for 2 years, spent total of £5000. He has been to Rockley Farm and rehabbed barefoot and is now sound for the first time. He was only ever very slightly lame. Good luck and hope he is ok.xxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
Having re read the replies on this thread i'd like to add.
No one has said the horse was a welfare case.
No one has suggested nerve blocks and x rays.
No one has said the OP is a cruel uncaring person.
All replies, mine included, offered OUR opinions on what we'd do and how we'd tackle it. Several seemed to decide it wasn't worth following up, as I should have done! I'm glad the horse is so much better, as I said at the start it was probably going to rectify itself in time. I'm afraid I don't take into consideration an owners past experiences with horses, I just answer a question with an opinion. Bad luck doesn't tend to be fair or evenly distributed.
 
however I'd have to strongly disagree with the people who are saying that he shouldn't be having bute
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It's not about whether he should be given bute or not - but whether in this particular instance the OP should be self medicating the horse.

I agree with practically everything Patches has said. And if this horse was not new to the owner I think the course of action would be perfect. However, this is a new horse, and I personally don't think you can afford to take any risks.

My vet too has given me support and advice over the phone. However, when my new horse (or 6 weeks) went lame (regardless of the possible cause) he insisted on comming out. It was nothing more than a bruise - and the horse healed quickly. However, this vet had vetted him for purchase, and was not only covering his own back - but ultimately ensuring the welfare of the horse and his client.........

At the end of the day OP - you asked for advice, and the majority seem to be encouraging a veterinary visit.
 
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Amymay I've not had him long but I brought him locally and I'm in constant contact with the old owner, whom assures me he had no underlying problems. And has been problem free with the exeception of mites in the 4 years she has owned him. We are just assuming me & the vet given that he appeared lame immediately after treading on the stone this is the cause. And if no better on Monday after box rest the vet will be called out. So thanks again for the replies I will update soon. X
 
Duggan - I know no-one said the horse was a welfare case or that the horse must have xrays and nerve blocks etc. I was merely trying to convey that we're talking about a very slight lameness that isn't causing the horse any great discomfort at all. Given that there appears to be no obvious cause without deeper investigation (which would no doubt have to include those xrays/nerve blocks or scans) I don't see that a vet would have decided upon a different course of action, for at least this first week, whether he'd physically seen this horse or not.

Yes it could turn out to be a tweak somewhere, although I sincerely hope it doesn't, but a week of box rest is certainly not going to do him any further harm or hinder his recovery if he's no better and a vet does end up coming to fully assess him next week.
 
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