Elsiecat
Well-Known Member
^oh for gods sake get off the insulted bandwagon. No one has said that everyone in china beats puppies. It has merely been said that animal cruelty isn't taken seriously in china.
Worst Youtube pony abuse films ever?
- Thread starter FionaM12
- Start date
Elsiecat
Well-Known Member
That wasn't aimed at you micradam! Woooops
Hot_Toddy7
Well-Known Member
the difference between our statements is that mine is a personal opinion, not spoken as if I believe it to be gospel, it's just an opinion and I don't claim it to be fact.... Your first statement was that China is horrendous. Am I not allowed to express that I find it offensive?
micramadam
Well-Known Member
it' ok Elsiecat I am sane enough (today 
) to realise that the posts crossed. Made me laugh - thanks. Having a bit of a rough time at the moment.
ShadowFlame
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but what is there to be insulted about? China doesn't have animal cruelty legislation, the comment in regards to it being based in China is the fact that nothing can be done in terms of abuse.
If it wasn't illegal over here we'd have hoards of chavs still fighting pitbulls, among starvation, beating, and the kinds of treatment we see crop up occasionally. It's nothing to do with the Chinese people, it's all down to legislation and the fact there are a***holes in every race
Hot_Toddy7
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but what is there to be insulted about? China doesn't have animal cruelty legislation, the comment in regards to it being based in China is the fact that nothing can be done in terms of abuse.
If it wasn't illegal over here we'd have hoards of chavs still fighting pitbulls, among starvation, beating, and the kinds of treatment we see crop up occasionally. It's nothing to do with the Chinese people, it's all down to legislation and the fact there are a***holes in every race
Don't think China has ever had this much attention on HHO! Admittedly I over-reacted a little. But I still feel the first comment made on this thread was unfair... EC stated 'call me racist, I don't care', so another poster states that the comment was racist... Dunno.. maybe I should go have another ciggy and get on with some work
Elsiecat
Well-Known Member
I said people were welcome to call it me because its ever increasing the amount of people who like to accuse everyone of being racist!
Hot_Toddy7
Well-Known Member
I don't think I actually called you racist? I think I just expressed disapproval of your comment.......
FionaM12
Well-Known Member
I started this thread as I wanted to know if there's anything could be done to stop things like this being posted on the internet. I suspect "riding" that tiny foal was only done in order to have it posted on Youtube as a joke.
I know it's a huge site, but wondered if it is policed at all despite that.
Sadly I've come back to the thread to find it's just become an argument about China.
We don't even know if the films were made in China, we have no idea of the nationalities of the makers, and I don't see its relevance.
It saddens me that as soon as some people see an act of cruelty where the perpetrators appear to be of non-British origin, they want to point the finger at a whole race.
Those saying the comments in the thread aren't racist, how can "the Chinese as a nation are vile" possibly not be racist?
I'm sorry I started this discussion now. I wanted to talk about controlling animal cruelty on the internet, not quarrel about race.
I know it's a huge site, but wondered if it is policed at all despite that.
Sadly I've come back to the thread to find it's just become an argument about China.
We don't even know if the films were made in China, we have no idea of the nationalities of the makers, and I don't see its relevance. It saddens me that as soon as some people see an act of cruelty where the perpetrators appear to be of non-British origin, they want to point the finger at a whole race.
Those saying the comments in the thread aren't racist, how can "the Chinese as a nation are vile" possibly not be racist?
I'm sorry I started this discussion now. I wanted to talk about controlling animal cruelty on the internet, not quarrel about race.
Ptolemy
Well-Known Member
Well that was incredibly annoying, I typed out a very long response and lost it all, so here we go again.
I have been lurking on this forum for a while now, I have been tempted to post on a few threads (congrats tessybear!) but this is the first one that has actually drawn me out of the woodwork.
I have lived in China for the past 17 years. I don't see what people are saying here as racist. That word is bandied about far too much for my liking to be honest, but anyway... The video is Chinese.
Chinese culture is quite unique. As a country they have been through some incredibly tough times, they have gone from having literally nothing during the cultural revolution, to a fair portion of the country becoming relatively "wealthy" within a very short space of time. They are very materialistic, whilst at the same time placing a large emphasis on money. For 95% of the country, animals are viewed as commodities. They are there to serve a purpose, most of the time this will be as food. Occasionally they will be used as work animals. Increasingly people are starting to realise that the more wealthy Chinese in first-tier cities are willing to pay a lot of money for animals as status symbols. These animals are raised with no real knowledge in pitiful conditions on the minimum they need to survive, with the idea that they be sold on as quickly as possible.
What people have said before on here regarding animal welfare laws in China is quite right. There are none. Where there are "welfare laws" they appear to be more a way of the government making money (registration fees, quarantine etc.) Having said that, in these cities, a lot of the families who have become wealthy are sending their children abroad to study. These children are learning western ideas and western concepts. There is also a trend amongst the younger generation to follow these causes because it's 'cool'. They aren't always going about it in the right way, for instance the guy who had 300 un-neutered disease ridden cats in his house that he'd 'rescued'. But there are animal welfare groups here who are trying to educate people. It is a long, hard process, and to be honest, the majority of people who 'care' do so because they can afford to. It all comes down to money in the end.
As for the video of the child who was run down, yes I have seen that video, and many, many more that never quite made it to international press. The cold hard facts of the matter is that the man did it purely because of money. If the child had survived then he would have had to pay medical fees as well as a hefty compensation sum. With the child dead he just had to pay compensation and there is the possibility that his own family won't starve in the process. It's hard and cold, but sadly it all comes down to money. There was a huge uproar about it on the local social networks, people baying for blood, wanting to hunt the guy down and murder him. There is a general feeling of disgust about such things. However, if these people yelling had to choose between the survival of their own family or the survival of another family, they would more than likely choose their own.
In short, there is not a lot you can do. Animal welfare is the least of China's problems at the minute. I firmly believe that the man in this video is not really being cruel, but is just incredibly ignorant of the damage he could cause. But then if the foal died then he'd just sell it for meat anyway. The first video actually seems to be them trying to sell the horses. There is a telephone number, a QQ number (china's chat network). At the end there are many pictures of the young girl with various foals. I'm sorry I don't know enough Chinese to be able to tell you what is said. In the second video, the guy to me is just showing off his 'horsemanship'. I am not saying it is right, I am not defending them, I am just saying try not to judge based on our standards of what's right. Our animal rights system has developed over (dare I say hundreds?) of years. We still do things that many would probably frown upon. They have this bridge to cross.
The best you can do is contact Youtube themselves. One other point to bare in mind though, Youtube is blocked in China. If the man who rode this foal uploaded the video he used a VPN. Having said that, this video was actually taken from Youku (the chinese version of Youtube), you can see the watermark on the video, which leads me to believe that someone else has copied it and posted it, for what reason I have no idea.
I have been lurking on this forum for a while now, I have been tempted to post on a few threads (congrats tessybear!) but this is the first one that has actually drawn me out of the woodwork.
I have lived in China for the past 17 years. I don't see what people are saying here as racist. That word is bandied about far too much for my liking to be honest, but anyway... The video is Chinese.
Chinese culture is quite unique. As a country they have been through some incredibly tough times, they have gone from having literally nothing during the cultural revolution, to a fair portion of the country becoming relatively "wealthy" within a very short space of time. They are very materialistic, whilst at the same time placing a large emphasis on money. For 95% of the country, animals are viewed as commodities. They are there to serve a purpose, most of the time this will be as food. Occasionally they will be used as work animals. Increasingly people are starting to realise that the more wealthy Chinese in first-tier cities are willing to pay a lot of money for animals as status symbols. These animals are raised with no real knowledge in pitiful conditions on the minimum they need to survive, with the idea that they be sold on as quickly as possible.
What people have said before on here regarding animal welfare laws in China is quite right. There are none. Where there are "welfare laws" they appear to be more a way of the government making money (registration fees, quarantine etc.) Having said that, in these cities, a lot of the families who have become wealthy are sending their children abroad to study. These children are learning western ideas and western concepts. There is also a trend amongst the younger generation to follow these causes because it's 'cool'. They aren't always going about it in the right way, for instance the guy who had 300 un-neutered disease ridden cats in his house that he'd 'rescued'. But there are animal welfare groups here who are trying to educate people. It is a long, hard process, and to be honest, the majority of people who 'care' do so because they can afford to. It all comes down to money in the end.
As for the video of the child who was run down, yes I have seen that video, and many, many more that never quite made it to international press. The cold hard facts of the matter is that the man did it purely because of money. If the child had survived then he would have had to pay medical fees as well as a hefty compensation sum. With the child dead he just had to pay compensation and there is the possibility that his own family won't starve in the process. It's hard and cold, but sadly it all comes down to money. There was a huge uproar about it on the local social networks, people baying for blood, wanting to hunt the guy down and murder him. There is a general feeling of disgust about such things. However, if these people yelling had to choose between the survival of their own family or the survival of another family, they would more than likely choose their own.
In short, there is not a lot you can do. Animal welfare is the least of China's problems at the minute. I firmly believe that the man in this video is not really being cruel, but is just incredibly ignorant of the damage he could cause. But then if the foal died then he'd just sell it for meat anyway. The first video actually seems to be them trying to sell the horses. There is a telephone number, a QQ number (china's chat network). At the end there are many pictures of the young girl with various foals. I'm sorry I don't know enough Chinese to be able to tell you what is said. In the second video, the guy to me is just showing off his 'horsemanship'. I am not saying it is right, I am not defending them, I am just saying try not to judge based on our standards of what's right. Our animal rights system has developed over (dare I say hundreds?) of years. We still do things that many would probably frown upon. They have this bridge to cross.
The best you can do is contact Youtube themselves. One other point to bare in mind though, Youtube is blocked in China. If the man who rode this foal uploaded the video he used a VPN. Having said that, this video was actually taken from Youku (the chinese version of Youtube), you can see the watermark on the video, which leads me to believe that someone else has copied it and posted it, for what reason I have no idea.
Ptolemy
Well-Known Member
Thank you, I've been lurking for a while, I'll be returning to the UK soon and I am hoping to return to my love of horses! I have been to a fair few stables whilst I have been out here, I haven't returned to any to be honest. I just couldn't deal with how the animals were treated.
I hope to have my own horse again eventually, but I think I've forgotten more than I ever knew. It's going to be a long road back but I am looking forward to it!
I hope to have my own horse again eventually, but I think I've forgotten more than I ever knew. It's going to be a long road back but I am looking forward to it!
Hot_Toddy7
Well-Known Member
Welcome to HHO! Thanks for your comment, it was very well put
Where abouts in China do you live at the moment?Ptolemy
Well-Known Member
I'm on the outskirts of Shanghai. It used to be quite rural, but has been swallowed up over the past few years by the urban sprawl. I'm starting to forget what stars look like.
I will be glad to be out of here to be honest. I'm sure my lungs will thank me for leaving too!
I will be glad to be out of here to be honest. I'm sure my lungs will thank me for leaving too!
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I visited on the dreaded look see visit , ( you probally get what I mean ) your brave I refused to go.
Welcome to HHO online.
Hot_Toddy7
Well-Known Member
Yes, Shanghai is one of those places I would visit for a few hours at most! My extended family is originally from Linfen in the north, but vast majority now live in Macau. Looking forward to visiting and the culture shock too!
Shantara
Well-Known Member
Sadly I've come back to the thread to find it's just become an argument about China.
It saddens me that as soon as some people see an act of cruelty where the perpetrators appear to be of non-British origin, they want to point the finger at a whole race.
It's like when the walking horses are talked about, people say Americans are cruel! No, Americans are not cruel, just the people who are actually cruel!!
Hot_Toddy7
Well-Known Member
Back on topic, I don't think there's anyway of policing online videos either. I remember watching a couple of videos (not animal abuse), which I believe are called 'snuffs'. Absolutely awful viewing, and after them having been around the internet for a few years, copies still exist and aren't hard to access. I do think that in some cases, authorities could do more to prosecute based on video evidence. I do feel that you're right in saying some videos are solely for the purpose of 'trolling' and creating a reaction from others, although in the instance of the videos posted, I don't think this is the case.
Ptolemy
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I remember my look see, I wasn't terribly impressed, I went home and cried in all honesty! In the end I agreed to come here because it was good for my husbands career, and where we would be living would mean that I could have a (small) garden and an actual kitchen for the first time in 7 years. I'm from the North of England, so as a country lass I didn't take too well to living in an apartment in a big city. It's been a long, hard 10 years in Shanghai. It has given me some amazing opportunities, but at the same time I feel like I have also lost a lot. I wrote a rather negative piece about China and it's affect on people during one of my darker moment here. There are times when you do question humanity and I have to say that I don't necessarily disagree with some of the more negative views on here. I understand why people would think that way. I have seen China at it's worst, and unfortunately it's best comes at a price.
It has changed a lot over the years, when I first arrived I think the people were a lot friendlier, westerners were a novelty, family was more of a driving force. I don't feel that it has changed for the better. I understand why things are the way they are, but I don't necessarily like them. Everything revolves around money and 'face', with the new generation family values are falling by the wayside. I'm not entirely sure where the society in general will end up.
I guess I have hardened somewhat. The video of the foal is indeed sad, but it is just 'life' out here. It's not wrong in their eyes, or the government's eyes for that matter. I used to get upset about things like that, but in the end there is literally nothing you can do. In a world where an old man can collapse in the street and everyone will walk past him for fear of being sued for his hospital bills, the plight of a foal being ridden by a man trying to make money will have little effect. A local media outlet recently fabricated an event where a person suddenly became ill on a bus and a "good bystander" gave them some money and called an ambulance. It was done to try and boost morale and kindle values, but in the end it achieved the opposite, even more distrust, where even the people doing good are actors.
Don't get me wrong, I honestly believe that the vast majority of people out here are good at heart, they just have learned that they need to protect themselves and look after themselves first and foremost. As a society they have been through a lot in the past 50 yrs, more than any of us can every imagine. They have learned not to trust others and to rely on no-one but themselves. This came about through necessity and it seems that it is now a part of their culture. A lot of their religious values were crushed during the darker years and they were given the party values instead in place of their religious ideals. They were encouraged to turn in their own family members to the government. Friends turned against friends, brother against brother.
Hopefully things will change, but it will take time.
FionaM12
Well-Known Member
Thank you for returning the thread to topic!
If what Ptolemy says is correct, it would seem the people who posted the films aren't the original makers. so I cannot imagine what there motive was.
Ptolemy
Well-Known Member
Thank you for returning the thread to topic!
If what Ptolemy says is correct, it would seem the people who posted the films aren't the original makers. so I cannot imagine what there motive was.
I honestly don't know, I can try to find the original films on youku if you like, I'm not sure how successful I'll be though. As I said, my Chinese is terrible (sad, I know, for someone who has been here for so long) I have survival chinese and I certainly can't read it!
Perhaps if I find that and there are some similarities in name it could be shown it's the same person, however, nothing would really come of it. If you could somehow come up with the details of the guy and have proof that he posted it on Youtube then perhaps that *could* lead to the possibility of a different kind of law being invoked, the fact that he is willfully circumventing the "great firewall" and accessing forbidden sites. But then to be honest you run the risk of ruining a man's life when in his eyes (and his country's) he has done no real 'wrong' (how's that for drama?)
I say just report it to Youtube and hope that you can get it removed. But in reality the only effect it will have is to give you more peace of mind unfortunately. With no real chance of prosecution or even education... not much would be achieved.
Just my 2p
FionaM12
Well-Known Member
Having such things removed is half the battle. I'm not sure anyone cares on these big sites though.
Thanks for your input Ptolemy. It's good to have informed opinions rather than knee-jerk reactions.
And oi... no drama! I'm the drama queen here!
Ptolemy
Well-Known Member
You know, just another thought...
looking through his uploaded videos, he uses words such as "poor pony". His profile states that he is based in China. It is possible that this guy is somehow trying to bring attention to something that he sees as horrible. Perhaps he is one of the few animal rights people? Perhaps he has pages with links to these videos on Youtube to protect himself, thinking that the people concerned would be unable to look there?
Just another possible perspective. Although of course it could be that he just finds it funny. It's impossible to tell.
Who knows.
looking through his uploaded videos, he uses words such as "poor pony". His profile states that he is based in China. It is possible that this guy is somehow trying to bring attention to something that he sees as horrible. Perhaps he is one of the few animal rights people? Perhaps he has pages with links to these videos on Youtube to protect himself, thinking that the people concerned would be unable to look there?
Just another possible perspective. Although of course it could be that he just finds it funny. It's impossible to tell.
Who knows.
FionaM12
Well-Known Member
FionaM12
Well-Known Member
Glad to see the dodgy comments have been removed from this thread by admin.
The wife
Well-Known Member
Now then, I'm usually quite a tough cookie when it comes to videos of abuse and I've got to admit I was expecting to see videos of a naughty pony being smacked... But goodness me, this has not only astounded and upset me but has left me absolutely gob smacked. Poor, poor little things. Is it possible to report these to YouTube?
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
Just to say, I doubt it will have an impact if it was removed. There is footage of workers pulling out dead/half dead baby girls from rivers and roadsides so not sure they would be sympathetic to animal abuse...?